Paul Markham

Here you go then.

300 Tubes sites with shit traffic.

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adultmobile

Disclaimer: I run cam sites so I have no issue whatsoever from tubes content, which is not live or interactive, and so not stealing live chats customers, that I know of.

These content producer vs tube threads are always the biggest hit in gfy, esp if paul markham is inside, and he's always inside them.
Nathan in one line said he don't care if guys on tubes don't buy, as long as they're all in their tubes so under their control, rather than guys browsing other sites so in control of someone else.
That's true as if someone buys, they will buy something they see where they are browsing (which is tubes), if you have no traffic, sure you have no sales, is just so logic.

In April made a $10,000 flash anim champaign on pornhub + tube8 via trafficjunky, to feed a new site of mine which have the tube word in it, tubecamgirl.com , where I give free live content away, like does cam4 and myfreecams. A few guys who signed up from pornhub already spent $500+ each, so I would say tube traffic can convert on cams.
And there's those who don't purchase but keep on my site, so I control them, as Nathan said, and if they will ever buy something in future, they will from what they see in the site where they are. Note that the cam biz is quite odd to the point there is guys who see the girl put dildo in pussy and ass for free in tubecamgirl, then take her in private at $3 a minute keeping her clothed, to talk of their life story or so, this is not porn really.

So I can't say if there's money in porn, but for sure the porn controls lots of people who want to see it for free, then from there, they'll buy stuff, maybe cams or even prerecorded porn (this nathan says about brazzers ads, I can't verify as I have cams only).

My 2 euro cents

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plsureking

can i borrow a copy?

.

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Just Alex

I will take one as well.

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Robbie

You guys will have to wait until the real owners of Manwin give their front clown (Fabian) a copy so he can read what the company is doing himself.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

The Porn Nerd

Paul is from London? Explains everything. Ex-Pat Brits like Paul are generally clueless bastards. Look at them still trying to sell panties and knickers sites and bowing to German Queens as if Royalty still meant anything. It's all so clear now. :D

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Paul Markham

Yes I'm sure cam sites do well from Tube sites, you're not having your content used to feed another part of the industry.

I'm sure some do buy pre recorded porn from a Tube site. The question is numbers, ratios and what it's true cost is. 1 sale off a Tube site = 10 lost sales elsewhere.

When the Cam site model moves to being free, then you'll be screaming. When paysites wake up and realise they can give your product away for free or at a very low price, you'll be screaming. If paysites ever wake up.

Thanks for the compliment. Shows what a clueless bastard can make in porn. Probably more than you will and I definitely will last longer than you will. So where does that put you?

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The Affiliate Program

KisforKink

bump for you

The Porn Nerd

That puts me in a nice $xxx.xxx income there Paulie. You? LOL

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Agent 488

This message is hidden because Paul Markham is on your ignore list.

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The Affiliate Program

plsureking

ditto. it makes the board is so much better too...

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DamianJ

Paul who?

Fenris Wolf

Thank you for the info.

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JeffK

It looks like every webmaster who's saying tubes didn't hurt the industry is making their money with cams, and that only shitty paysites and oversaturated content are the reasons for bad sales.

So since cams are also one of the main income streams of tubes, why doesn't everybody who is not into cams promote heavily myfreecams.com (no, it's not mine) ? It's a free cam site and is based on donations from the viewer only.

It would be a great test if these free cams will or will not lower overall cam sales and eventually it will cut the main income streams of tube sites. No income - no tubes.

All illegal tubes would be out of business within two weeks if not everyone would buy ad spots there and the handful of big sponsor programs that are promoted heavily on the biggest illegal tubes wouldn't pay them.

And since I'm not into cams I will start now to add links to myfreecams.com on all my seo pages.

x-bob

fuck the tubes

DamianJ

Ah, the Paul Markham school of thinking.

Did you buy his ebook?

If my Auntie had bollocks she'd be my Uncle.

JeffK

Are you into cams? Start to fear?

It's basic economy: no income = no business!

Do you think big illegal tubes would be still around if they wouldn't get paid by sponsors?

Nearly every sponsor program has the rule "put our ads only on sites with legal content". Stolen, copyright infringing content is illegal, so the sponsors are not binded to pay illegal tubes.

But as long as the big sponsors didn't get their asses together to stop paying illegal tubes I think it's a good start to cut their cam sales by promoting absolutely free cams.

plsureking

good infos as always. based on that, i wonder if its prudent to remove videos from the tubes after they've seen a day on the homepage?


not to be a whore, but i mentioned this method in my short non-Markham-affiliated pdf:

PornCMS Guide to Solo Model Profits
https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1009157

.

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The Porn Nerd

That's a great pDF man thanks! Problem is, solo girls are tough to sell, and sell consistently. Robbie does it but he's got CM heh.

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plsureking

plus years and years of archives and inbound links

.

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DamianJ

Yes. www.partychat.tv/affiliate

huh? not sure what that means?

It's basic fucking common cunting sense. You can never get "everyone" to suddenly stop. Fucktard.

What does it matter? They are paid. This will not stop cos some bloke with 3 posts on gfy suggests it. [/QUOTE]

Not sure what point you are failing to make here?

Brilliant.

You're as bad as Markham. Congrats.

As I said, if my auntie had bollocks, she'd be my uncle.

DVTimes

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The Affiliate Program

Paul Markham

This part of the porn industry has very small balls and they're owned by affiliates. The tail wags the dog.

If paysites started to incorporate free cams or very cheap ones and promoted Plenty of Fish, then the 2 streams of advertising on Tubes would suffer.

They don't and you have to ask yourself why.

Pointless arguing with DamianJ, he's a loser who thinks this s clever.

http://vimeo.com/8079940

The rest of us see he's a loser, lives in a dump that he rents and he still thinks he's clever.

MisterPeabody, most solo girl sites fail on the reason the girl isn't worth making a solo girl site with. Some of the rest fail because the shooter doesn't know how to bring the best out in her.

You only have to look at plsureking site to see what he sells and who to.

Signup for a Porn CMS account
Configure your site settings
Upload or Import your Content
Sign up for a paysite billing account
Go live and make money!

If it were that easy, why are sites closing.

In 33 years of shooting I've probably just about met 50 girls I would think good enough to carry a solo girl site. Usually not enough personality, sexuality or looks. Then there's the problem of keeping her working for the small money the site makes, without updates it dies.

And I've shot loads of top girls.

I wonder if plsureking would like to give us links to the 50 sites.

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DamianJ

Paul I can't believe despite your warning you carry on your personal attacks.

a) It's against the rules

b) It's a lie

Another lie.

It's like you can't stop yourself anymore. Sad to see, really.

Hey ho.

Where's the picture of your mansion anyway? Still too much of a pussy to post it? Lollington lol.

xxx

PS You're talking utter shit about solo girl sites too. I work on a network of around 40 of them, and you don't need an amazing girl, you need to understand traffic and marketing.

PPS Some of them use PornCMS, and my client was made aware of the software because of your thread bashing him! Honest to god that is true. You should get a ref code. Make more than selling your sig to .xxx!

plsureking

thanks man. ya i block that old cocksucker's posts, but i'm sure he did as he always did and posted my site copy.

that fucking decrepit idiot will never learn. i've earned quite a few new customers over his failed attempt at a point..

.

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Paul Markham

Hi Kettle, meet pot.

As for being a loser, prove you§re not. The videos on Pornbeer show otherwise.

With all the understanding of traffic and marketing counts for 0. After the guy spends his money. Then all that matters is the content. If it's not living up to the promises he feels let down, the marketing lied to him, it led him to believe the site was better than it was. After he repeats this process a few times he learns not to trust the marketing, because it's clearly lies.

Do that for 12 years and the number of people who can be shunted around as traffic and convinced by marketing are lessened to the degree that only 1 in maybe as few as a 1,000 will sign up and spend money. And that's where we are today. It's thanks to those who believe traffic and marketing are the solution that today maybe as few as 1-5,000 online porn consumers buy online porn.

That's clear evidence of failure.

I never said I lived in a mansion, that's another of your lies. Maybe as a pseudo marketing man you have come to believe lies are the truth.

If you really work on a network of 40 solo girl sites, give me a login and pass so I can review them.

Same goes for plsureking. give me a login.

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Paul Markham

When it comes to shooting, marketing and selling solo girl material I've got more experience, more knowledge and more skill than a pseudo marketing man and a programmer. I've made my living from it for 33 years, whoops make that 34 years now. Started in 1977.

So here's a budget for a solo girl site, both ends. shot by the site owner on the cheap and by a decent shooter. Based it on 50 scenes, less would not be a very good site, in the opinion of the member. Also the site owner can hold back something for updates. More would put up the initial price. More will be needed for updates to keep the site retaining.

50 scenes will take 10 days or 17 days to shoot. Paying a model $500 a day, a decent girl will want that, $5,000 to $8,500 for the model.

Site owner shooting $00, good shooter subcontracted $500 to $1,000 a day. $8,500 to $17,000.

Equipment. If the site owner doesn't have it, then a cheap stills camera, video camera and some builders lights $2,000. Good shooters have all their own equipment.

Locations can be at the shooters home or at a location. Better the location, better the scenes to keep them varied. Let's throw in $100 a day for a good shooter to have some good locations. Not really enough, but don't want to break the budget. $1,700.

Props, clothing, expenses, make up, etc another $100 a day. $1,700. for the cheap end not required.

Experience, skill and talent shooting solo girl. Priceless and the key to good content.

So the bottom end comes out at $7,000

Top end comes out at $20,400 to $28,900.

At a cost of $30 a join with $10 going to costs of the site. That 350 sign ups or recurring members, for a bottom end site. At 1 sign up a day, 1 year to repay the cost of content at 5 a day, 70 days. Unless the guy is a genius at traffic with a good site, 5 a day is about the limit for a new site.

With a good site run by a good company with a good shooter and using an affiliate program to drive sales. Maybe a figure of $10 a sign up is more realistic. 2890 members or monthly retentions.

Now comes updates. Without it the site dies, because retention is minimal and affiliates get put off. Yes with a good cluster of sites, if the content is good theres a good point of upselling. If the content isn't, then again this income stream is limited.

Again model and shooter, if required, with other expenses comes out at $100 a scene just paying the model. Or as high as $500 a scene shooting 3 scenes in a day with just a model and good shooter.

Updating 1 set or video a day, $1500 to $7,500 a month.

Putting te model on profit sharing means promising her a lot, deliver it and shes happy. Don't as so many have done in the past and she pisses off and updates are over.

Relying on a porn model to work next week is like relying on the weather in Czech. It might be sunny and fine one day and pissing down the next.

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Nathan

60 usd member value (very doable)
45 usd CPA (very doable)
Profit per member 15 usd
28900 to start, means 65 sales a day to break even after one month. Those scenes can easily be taken for updates in the first month.

Continue to shoot 25 scenes a month for updates after month one, means 33 sales a month after that makes you money.

100 sales a day makes you over 1k a day and 30k a month.

If you want to make real money though, you have to spend more than you make initially. But this still works. Expect to spend half a million in the first 12 months but also expect to make that the second year.

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Nicky

Don't blow his mind like that

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Barefootsies

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Paul Markham

Well it seems very few can do this today, or they wouldn't be getting out or diversifying.

I think people are getting out because they can't do that. Or are they getting out because they're doing great?

A few big guys can do it, the rest can't. As sales go down, even the big guys will find it tougher.

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Robbie

Those numbers that Fabian gave out show why completely failed when he tried to start an affiliate program on his own. LOL!
Those may be the kind of low numbers that Brazzers makes because of their bloated budget...but MY profit per sale (and everyone that I personally know with solo girl sites) is more than that.

Just shows why Fabian failed when he really owned a program a couple of years ago. And why he would fail again if he tried to start one on his own. What a clown.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Axelo9

let put tube site down! hahahaha

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Paul Markham

Your business model is basically a scaled up Ma & Pa operation.

It's you and CM. Then maybe a few other people and hiring models. You already admitted that you drive most of your own traffic, CM I suppose is on a profit share so what does she cost. Or is she free being your partner and shares the profits.

Fabian on the other hand is looking at it from a large company perspective. He thinks a newly launched site can just jump in and get 2,000 members in it's first month and they will ALL stay on average 2 months.

His CPA is based on Tube Ads. Others might find it tough to get 2,000 members in the first month without a lot of money spent on affiliates, forget about type in in big numbers, that's in the future. 2,000 members via affiliates, might cost 40% in affiliate payouts. Then who pays the processing fee on affiliates sign ups?

Big affiliates want more than 50%, many want PPS.

Yes a big company can do it and that's how Fabian sees it. The rest are looking at keeping it going, thinking about the future and many diversifying. Even Nicky.

I look at it from the perspective of a content producer. I see less and less being shot and less being paid for it. I see sites full of poor content and the general picture I get from boards is the industry is winding down. Maybe it's all centralising to big companies, but sales are getting harder and harder to achieve. And the big companies aren't likely to change that trend. Not unless they come up with something very radical to change the declining ratios. The get more traffic days are over, it's traffic coming from others who found it harder to convert.

Free content is for most surfers a far better option.

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shimmy2

i used to whine about tubes, but they are some of my best affiliates. is what it is, just leak out your older content and crappy bts/edits to them and save the good stuff for the members

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The Porn Nerd

Two quick points here, one for Paul and one for Nathan:

Paul is correct in his seed money calculations IF someone were to just shoot a solo girl, etc. (And I also agree most solo girls aren't worth trying a site for and those that are will probably make some nice extra income instead of "getting rich".) BUT if it's a "Ma and Pa"-type operation, or the solo girl has a lot of content she's gathered over the years, OR if she's willing to shoot content for her own site for free, then the costs are way lower. Profits still may suck tho. LOL

Nathan: THE ONLY WAY on Planet Earth to get 65 members a day, every damn day, after only a month in operation is either (and probably a combination of) MASS traffic, MASS affiliates and MASS money being invested. The average solo girl site would be ecstatic with 5 sales a day, every day, after a month of operation.

Just some perspective from my "World". LOL

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Paul Markham

I was actually thinking of a solo girl site with lots of different girls. I've rarely seen a girl good enough to carry a solo girl site. Good looking enough, personality right and bags of sexuality. Then you're up against what this girl could earn by not going exclusive. $50,000 a year is possible, well it was before the market was shredded.

Even today she might not want to do it for $25,000 a year. It's only $500 a week. Maybe in the Mid West, but good luck finding a top girl for $500 a week.

Then the site owner puts his future into the hands of an 18-25 year old whose silly enough to go naked in front of a camera.

Unless the site owner has a pot full of money to shoot so much of her, before she changes her mind.

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Cherry7

It is a nice thought that the customer knows best, sadly I don't think the evidence is there, Its Coke the best soft drink, Is McDonalds and KFC the best food ? No people are manipulated into buying an image a lifestyle.

We are even taught what is visually good images - through a history of art cinema etc...

Porn also has its culture, and one of it's main traditions is the rougher, worse, poorer it is shot the more real and better....

I do not follow the logic of the ratios, if one in a 1000 buys on a paysite, that does not mean that only 1 in a thousand buys porn, the 999 may have gone to the next site and joined. In fact if they were not interested in buying why would they be visiting a paysite in the first place? I visit hundreds of sites but only have joined 3, so I would just on my oen have created 999 visits to paysites and i purchase.

There are a lot sites out there, and the choice is great.

The difficulty is in reaching an audience and being known, but ratios don't mean anything.

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Nathan

I was talking solo girl as in sites like twistys, socalgirls and so on... not one single girl, I agree 65 sales on a single girl site is hard. Obviously 65 sales a day is not EASY either way, but its doable with the right site and right setup.

In regards to what idiot-Robbie posted... why on earth would I post real profit numbers here? I am showing that with even those numbers it works just fine. Just here to show that its much more doable than people claim. But either way, Robbie, keep dreaming about how great you are and how stupid I am and how I have no clue about what I am doing... it makes me smile every time how completely clueless you really are...

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Robbie

Hey Fabian...why don't you post just ONE paysite that you owned before Manwin that was successful?

Just one?

You can't.

Matter of fact post a url to just ONE thing you EVER did in online porn that was successful. You can't. The ONLY thing you ever were was the programmer for NATS in the beginning.

HEY REAL OWNERS OF MANWIN:
You should fire that clown. Hell, hire me. I'll turn you several million dollars MORE profit on Pornhub and your other tubes. I forgot more about this business today than Fabian has ever known.

I could QUICKLY (not months like Fabian claimed...and failed to do) turn Pornhub into the biggest affiliate for hundreds of programs out there WITHOUT losing the full scenes and WITHOUT losing any traffic.

I'm a money making machine...not a failed clown like Fabian.

I actually have the skill sets and abilities to get all that lost affiliate money that's just laying on the table being wasted.

Get rid of that lame ass front man (worst pick for a front guy of all times) and get someone like me who does nothing BUT make money.

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-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

The Porn Nerd

Watch it there Robbie - I understand you're being facetious but others on here might think you were begging for a job, thereby undercutting your whole "I don't need nobody I make zillions on my own" argument.

Paul and Nathan: perhaps the definition of a solo GIRL site has changed? LOL Maybe a SoCal- or Twistys-type site should be called a solo GIRLS site? When I hear "solo girl" i think of a site devoted to, well, a solo girl. What you both described are, to me, "multi-girl" sites, a totally differant animal.

I bet CM makes 65 sales a day (a true "solo girl", according to my definition) and perhaps a few others out there but dang few. Plus, to be truthful here, it should be called a solo MILF site because it's the over-30's that tend to do the best revenue.

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Paul Markham

Only fools who want to appear as fools would think we didn't make tons of money a few years ago and now living off it.

Examine the evidence.

2400+ sets shot in 8 years. Not exclusive for others, sets we still own. Not shot for online porn as there main outlet. Shot for magazines that paid real money, not the peanuts others work for.

We never pursued the custom content road because it would of lost us money. Even the worse set we shot was worth over $300 non exclusive. Good stuff was worth 10 times more. Without a sale online.

Content stores, while others went to shooting custom, we ignored it largely. And could rely on sales via the stores. Non exclusive is saturated. That's great for people who sell non exclusive content, it means lots of sales.

Then there were the paysites, just another tier of earning money on top of everything else. Yes we didn't make the money that some made and probably more than others. While sites close, shave to stay alive or sell out. We're still able to keep ours open.

Wow you earn a nice $xxx,xxx income. That's nothing exceptional.

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Jakez

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Killuminati

Paul Markham

It's idiot logic like this that has brought us to where we are today. With customers turning to free every day, he still thinks they can be persuaded to buy. Some can, but the numbers are falling. If it were all about marketing, traffic and niche, paysites would be making billions.

So you based your figures on an established site and not a new one.

What I do know for a fact is that on content you are completely clueless, or the person who runs the content side of the business is. The content on Brazzers and Mofos is on average, average at it's best and often awful.

On launching a new solo girl site again clueless. You simply don't get good solo girl content of the Twistys or any decent level of solo girl content for 50 scenes @ $28,900.

Today you can get a few guys who can't find work elsewhere, but a few years ago what dictated the price people sold for was not production costs, it was what the market would pay. We could sell sets for $3,000 and did it most times. Fucked if we were shooting 3 scenes for $2,000.

The online industry content was largely built on the guys who couldn't sell to better paying markets. Even today good shooters can earn more elsewhere or retire.

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Robbie

Still waiting for Fabian to list just ONE thing he ever did in porn online or off that was a success pre-Manwin frontman gig.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Paul Markham

Multi-girl to me is is lesbian with more than three girls. But I based my figures on a site paying the model.

Running a site with a model as a partner, is IMO a recipe for a disaster. You're putting your business into the hands of a girl you have no control over. If she's your wife, even then she can just turn around and say, "I'm finished with modeling. If she's not your wife the odds on keeping her loyal are slim.

Basing a site on many solo models is IMO a much better prospect, you're not tied to one girls, you can go from girl to girl, the site has lots of different personalities, looks and ways of turning on the members. Plus there are ways to develop good girls within the site. Something Mofos and Brazzers are clueless at.

******************

After 10 years of listening to the twaddle written on boards and the state of the industry it's amazing how little people have learned.

It's so clearly not about traffic, niche and markets or even free and piracy. It's about the product. The customer is clearly rejecting the product, for a variety of reasons, not good enough is the main one. Price and length of membership follow behind that and then trust.

If you need 1,000 people to look at free content to get a sign up, there's something very very wrong. Everything in porn is niche, teens to girls in custard. Now micro niche is the claimed money maker. Because the major niches are selling????

Marketing is what? If online porn had a clue what marketing was it would have gone from ratios of 1-50 to 1-5,000, depending on traffic and sites. Marketing is about improving sales, not throwing more people at a product that sell s less and less.

Free. If free is competing with paid. Then the paid for product isn't good enough. The actual idea that you have to keep giving away more and more free content to get a sign up is about as stupid an idea as ever.

$30 for 30 days recurring is to pay for traffic. That's it. Most of the customer no longer has to buy and rejects that option.

But no doubt I will be called wrong, while the industry continues going down.

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theking

Let me assume that you are 100% right...my question is...so what? How does being right change the situation for the better? A has been content shooter is not going to change anything...for the better or make matters worse. You being right or being wrong has zero affect on the state of the industry.

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