Adapt or Die - Traffic is easy to get. - GoFuckYourself.com

Paul Markham · 09-19-2011, 12:24 AM

I see the "Adapt or Die" post in many threads, yet few explain what it means. And fewer can show any evidence of adapting. So here's something to think about.

Firstly the situation today.

Quote:

Traffic is easy to get. It can cost affiliates little to nothing but time and some work. Submit a gallery, that's accepted and there you have traffic. Make a post on a message board and there's traffic. Buy some off Choker, he's practically giving it away. The problem isn't getting some traffic, it's getting enough traffic to get a sign up and some money.

That wasn't a problem 15 years ago, submit a picture to Newsgroups, or what ever it's called now, and there was traffic, a lot would come to the site and a lot wold buy. Even 13 years ago it wasn't a problem. Conversions ran at 1-100/200 of all surfers. And the model we built then worked fine.

Generally build a cheap site, give away samples and the traffic would come and some would sign up. 1-50 was great, losing 49 isn't in my book others thought different. That's basically the same model we have today.

Build a cheap site, pile the porn in and then get down to the hard work of getting enough traffic to make it profitable. some do it well, a lot do not.

Still the fundamental problem is getting worse, more and more surfers are rejecting paying. There's now a strong element of not "Having to pay for porn." It's something we have done well at, we taught surfers not to buy porn.

However with ratios like 1-100 hitting a site tour and buying it's clear 99 are saying no. When that 1 does sign up, how long does he stay, 1, 2, 3, 4 months on average? Either on that site or upselling to another one from inside the site? 4 months is exceptional in all but micro niches and very good solo girl sites. Yes some do stay longer, this is about the average membership.

Generally sites are a bland pile of porn. Scene on top of scene piled in with little structure or thought. Brazzers and Mofos are the same as many, the definition, lighting focus of the image is usually great. The porn isn't. It's just another scene on top of the 100s or 1,000s of scenes already there.

So clearly the site isn't offering enough to convert and retain. Unless you settle for very poor figures.

So how to put it right.

Read on.

sponsorpimp · 09-19-2011, 12:28 AM

Yes please tell us Paul how to put it right...

charlie g · 09-19-2011, 12:32 AM

There's a correlation to traffic and sales.

No traffic= no sales

*LOL, sound like fatfoo

Paul Markham · 09-19-2011, 12:48 AM

The possible solution.

Quote:

Lies inside the site.

We've gone as far as we can go with the traffic solution. Unless someone can think of a way to give away even more free porn than Tubes. The situation needs to be tackled from the other side.

Sites need a make over from the bottom up. From models to layout and design.

Models work for money, generally the more money on offer the better they work. Today my view of the porn industry is less work for models than at any time in the last 10 years. Shooters can gain control. It's easy to do, rather than a sponsor picking a girl, the shooter must pick her. He will know better than a sponsor what she's capable of doing. As he picks her, he's her boss.

God girls can get the carrot approach. Sites need to recognise girls who do work well, establish with agents the repeat work for good girl and the penalty for bad girls. Shooters who can find their own models are always best.

If a girl turns up who isn't working right, she goes home. No shooting it and trying to get it right in editing. Bad models need the stick approach. Has to be done professionally and if the shooter can't. Then he loses a client.

Then the actual product needs improving. I'm looking inside www.mrskin.com and it's an excellent site. It high lights the difference between what a hardcore porn scene gets wrong and a mainstream erotic scene gets right. When did you last watch a love or sex scene in a mainstream movie where the cheap music was spoiling the sensuality of the scene. Or did it need the actors to trot out the same tired porn phrases to convey that they were having sex?

Never I suspect. Yet porn seemingly can't do a porn scene without it. Why is the question I ask. Do they need the cheap music that often isn't erotic or sexy. Do the girls need to say "Yes stick your big cock in my tight teen cunt." While the shot on screen is him doing exactly that?

Does having the girl saying all this crap actually stop or hinder her from having a good time and conveying into the camera her pleasure? A shot of her face, while a guy slides his dick into her should be enough to convey pleasure.

And it goes on. we have found a format for scenes and few have the courage to move away from it.

Obviously shooting too much in a day for too little, doesn't help. Still no excuse.

When the film gets to the edit suite, it needs editors who know how to edit porn. Not know how to use a computer program. Adding loud inappropriate music isn't good. And there are other mistakes.

The basic product needs to be right, over and over again, to keep people rebilling.

Read on. I'm going to go take the dog for a walk. Got more to contribute.

Paul Markham · 09-19-2011, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie g

There's a correlation to traffic and sales.

No traffic= no sales

*LOL, sound like fatfoo

Who said "No traffic"?

The problem today isn't no traffic. It's not enough traffic to age a single sign up. When 99 get off for free, well not free it's paid for by the 1 who buys, something is wrong. When 999 get off for free it's a big problem. When 4,999 get off for free it's a disaster.

We have worked the traffic end for years and clearly this is where we got. From 99 getting off for free to around 4,999 now getting off for free. Does that mean traffic is the problem or in it lies the solution?

papill0n · 09-19-2011, 12:56 AM

very good points paul

charlie g · 09-19-2011, 12:59 AM

You can have the best content in the world and if no one sees it..............

dig420 · 09-19-2011, 12:59 AM

whoever wrote that post doesn't run a paysite and never has, and if you can read that and not see the massive fail in it then you probably haven't either. A ratio of 1/50 has NEVER been achievable with normal SE traffic. That's a ratio you only get from a fine tuned and heavily filtered email campaign. During the BEST days, 1/300 was pretty damn respectable. Thinking you can base your business on the judgement of models is insane. Not knowing that about half the people like a talkative model and half like them quiet and half like them to look at the camera and half of them hate it and they ALL want the dudes to STFU... well there's just no way you can be in this biz and not have absorbed that knowledge. You can't please everyone, so you pick your audience and you cater to it. If you're aware of ANOTHER audience you're attracting and not satisfying, then you build something for them and redirect them.

This thread is basically a lot of jacking off.

Jack Sparrow · 09-19-2011, 01:10 AM

The dog is probably dragging you along troll.

Konda · 09-19-2011, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Generally sites are a bland pile of porn. Scene on top of scene piled in with little structure or thought. Brazzers and Mofos are the same as many, the definition, lighting focus of the image is usually great. The porn isn't. It's just another scene on top of the 100s or 1,000s of scenes already there.

100,000s of people seem to disagree. They are so popular and successful for a reason! It's because the people like (and buy) their stuff.

Not a dime is spend less in online porn compared to 10 years ago. It just goes to different people. People who know what they are doing, people that innovate and/or adapt.

You can keep on talking about how great it was back in the days, but it won't change a thing and there is no turning back. If you can't make the same or more money now than 10 years ago, YOU are doing something wrong. You can blame it on whoever you want, but YOU are the person who failed to innovate or adapt.

Paul Markham · 09-19-2011, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie g

You can have the best content in the world and if no one sees it..............

Well retention shows how good the porn is, as for no one seeing it. That's silly and a flwaed argument. Obviously people have to see it and getting them to look is easy. Getting enough to look for one to buy is the problem today. Or do you only lose 99 out of 100 sales?

Aim higher.

As an affiliate the future of the industry is now out of your hands, this is down to sponsors to create something that will keep more customers happier longer. Is that a bad thing?

Zorgman · 09-19-2011, 02:19 AM

I've seen this happen before.

1. Sponsors launch program
2. Sponsor gets affiliates with high payouts.
3. Sales come in from all over the place and it's going well.
4. Sponsors realize they are only getting a small payout.
5. Sponsor cuts affiliate program without telling their affiliates.
6. Bank lots of cash.

It's hard for the affiliate these days. Your traffic has to come from multiple sources otherwise your going to take a drop in sales.

papill0n · 09-19-2011, 02:19 AM

the question is paul if you had the slightest idea of what you were talking about you would be out there acting on it not talking shit to people you apparently have no respect for

Paul Markham · 09-19-2011, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konda

100,000s of people seem to disagree. They are so popular and successful for a reason! It's because the people like (and buy) their stuff.

Not a dime is spend less in online porn compared to 10 years ago. It just goes to different people. People who know what they are doing, people that innovate and/or adapt.

You can keep on talking about how great it was back in the days, but it won't change a thing and there is no turning back. If you can't make the same or more money now than 10 years ago, YOU are doing something wrong. You can blame it on whoever you want, but YOU are the person who failed to innovate or adapt.

That's a myth and one you can't even hope to back up. Think in terms of retail sales, then come back, after you did some research and give us your findings. I can shoot that assumption online porn makes the same or more than offline did in minutes.

This thread has nothing to do with the past, no idea where you got that idea, guess it's you stuck in the year 2000.

This is about the industry adapting and innovating in the future.

Dig thank you for pointing out how bad conversion were always and that people like different things. Not exactly news, but thanks for reminding us.

Still it's nice to know that so many want the industry to adapt and innovate.

Jel · 09-19-2011, 02:31 AM

100k? Uniques? To sponsors? Per MONTH?

Are you CRAZY, mofo?

TheSquealer · 09-19-2011, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jel

100k? Uniques? To sponsors? Per MONTH?

Are you CRAZY, mofo?

He's never had traffic. According to him its "easy to get", yet he's never had it, never been successful, never had any success with his own networks of paysites and tgps. He doesn't even understand that "good traffic" is very difficult to get. Good traffic in any volume, even more so. He understands nothing about converting traffic and retaining members. How can he? How can a guy who knows absolutely nothing, yet thinks he knows absolutely everything ever learn or improve or get better? He can't.

So picture this in your mind. Here is a guy who thinks "traffic is easy to get" and believes content is king. He's got unlimited access to content which he seems to think is just amazing and "traffic is easy to get"... you have to wonder why he's failed so miserably. Can't be because he's a fucking pompous moron with an IQ under 100. Noooooooooooooo! It has to be tube sites that made him fail!

This guy is just a broken old man who barely had any kind of success at his peak many years ago, who is now just sitting in the park screaming at pigeons and trying to lecture people passing by on how steam engines are the future

.

Paul Markham · 09-19-2011, 02:50 AM

Dig points out that different porn turns on different people. Still there are fundamental basic.

Crap loud music that offers nothing to the scene isn't on many peoples "preferred" list.
As would be faked orgasm that all look the same and the same tired phrases spoken, when a guy opens his mouth in a porn scene, it better be gay and he better be about to suck cock.

The reason for this is often the shooter's or director's inability to get across to the model how to work.

Quote:

Still the basic presentation of most sites is just a pile of porn with little linking one scene to the next. It doesn't have to be a storyline like Porn Valley produces, getting that right requires major budgets that are beyond most sites. It just need the linking of scenes.

Sandra came for a days shoot, I filmed her walking to the shoot, then doing the shoot, then knocked out by the pleasure she had, the next scene could of been her in the bath soaking off her sweat and the final scene making herself and the crew a tea in the kitchen and getting off while she does it. Each scene is linked, it shows Sandra working for the day, I shot some BTS content that would of been nice to offer customers as an add on.

Don't throw every scene up in a day or a few days, put them up one a week. Then members have a reason to stay.

Do the members like Sandra more than the next girl, do they want SANDRA back? and how can we present Sandra in a way that keeps members glued? And not just Sandra, this goes for all the girls, let members vote on the scene and the girl, even better still with a live girl chatting to them she can chat when they want to and ask if they would like her back, what they want her to do and about their reactions to scenes.

For those in marketing, that's what marketing is about. Finding out by talking to customers. How often do we talk to members inside a site?

Today the porn consumer has 1,000s of sites to choose from and the game is 100 times tougher. We need to step up our game from the days of 2000.

Working on the product today is essential, adding 1-3 more scenes the same as the site already has is in itself boring for members. It all becomes the same and before long, the member is off to other sites. A lot of thought, hard work money has been spent to get him to sign up and then little done to keep him in there.

That's what this thread is about, not the past, my inabilities or what we do today. It's about tomorrow.

Let's assume Konda is right for a moment and the money is the same. Well today instead of 1,000 porn companies and 10,000 employed. Theres 10,000 and 100,000 employed. Not sure about the number neither is anyone else. Still today the cake is very very thin and has to be cut into tiny pieces. He's still wrong, think about the number of times a decent video was reproduced and the sales price, then double it by adding rental and cable. 1998 figures not 2011.

Paul Markham · 09-19-2011, 02:56 AM

My sites have always had traffic. It's the stupidest of stupid assumptions to assume they never had any. They would of closed 10 years ago with NO traffic. But stupid is Squealers middle name.

Did I have enough traffic to make sign ups? Well enough even today to keep the sites open.

Were the sites our only focus of business. No way, just a third string.

Crazy that a person who visited our studio and offices, met the studio staff, the office staff, saw the 2,000 sq ft studio. Thought he was not offering me enough to kiss his ass. Thinks we did all that, ran 4 sites with no traffic.

Squealer, you're too funny.

Jel · 09-19-2011, 03:01 AM

The main question here is, is paul the only one who doesn't know that no-one reads his posts, and that his troll attempts = him getting trolled into making yet more lengthy 'arguments', that don't get read, time after time?

For me, that's the funniest part of all.

TheSquealer · 09-19-2011, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

My sites have always had traffic. It's the stupidest of stupid assumptions to assume they never had any. They would of closed 10 years ago with NO traffic. But stupid is Squealers middle name.

EVERYONE knows you are full of shit.

But of course, you could build instant credibility by simply posting your sales stats to your "paysites". I mean, you must have done phenomenal with your shitty, poorly designed and fucked up looking sites with broken join pages.

Why not show everyone how you are the master Paul? Lets see sales stats to your super successful pay sites. Let's see those great conversion rates and amazing retention rates which is all due of course to your obviously incredible content.

I mean, you can understand why people doubt you right? You have after all had to come to this board to beg for money. You did admit after all to your wife having to work some where else to help pay the bills because your studio / paysites made you so little money.

I'm not calling you a liar, i'm just saying "hmm... maybe there are some inconsistencies here which could easily be cleared up"

Paul Markham · 09-19-2011, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorgman

I've seen this happen before.

1. Sponsors launch program
2. Sponsor gets affiliates with high payouts.
3. Sales come in from all over the place and it's going well.
4. Sponsors realize they are only getting a small payout.
5. Sponsor cuts affiliate program without telling their affiliates.
6. Bank lots of cash.

It's hard for the affiliate these days. Your traffic has to come from multiple sources otherwise your going to take a drop in sales.

You missed the worse part.

The industry fails to keep customers happy.

If a site is run on that model the reason it failed was probably the investment in traffic was too high and investment in product too low. That after a few years give customers a negative view of buying porn online. Best just to get it for free.

While we added traffic, due to new people coming online. Ratios got worse and worse. Customers were getting disillusioned with what was being sold.

Unless we can come up with a great new way to get more people online, in countries we can sell to, we have to convert more of what we have.

Imagine a time when the increase in surfers, isn't covering the decrease in sign ups? Imagine the year 2010.

HerPimp · 09-19-2011, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dig420

whoever wrote that post doesn't run a paysite and never has, and if you can read that and not see the massive fail in it then you probably haven't either. A ratio of 1/50 has NEVER been achievable with normal SE traffic. That's a ratio you only get from a fine tuned and heavily filtered email campaign. During the BEST days, 1/300 was pretty damn respectable. Thinking you can base your business on the judgement of models is insane. Not knowing that about half the people like a talkative model and half like them quiet and half like them to look at the camera and half of them hate it and they ALL want the dudes to STFU... well there's just no way you can be in this biz and not have absorbed that knowledge. You can't please everyone, so you pick your audience and you cater to it. If you're aware of ANOTHER audience you're attracting and not satisfying, then you build something for them and redirect them.

This thread is basically a lot of jacking off.

agreed

Shotsie · 09-19-2011, 03:51 AM

I don't know if you're a baseball fan but if you are you should go pick up the book Moneyball by Michael Lewis, or go see the movie when it comes out. It's a prime example of adaptation in the marketplace and I think there's a strong correlation between porn and Major League Baseball, or any business for that matter.

The book revolves largely around Billy Beane, general manager of the Oakland Athletics, during the 2002 season. It describes some of the tactical philosphies used by the A's in playing the game and in acquiring and using players. Everything appears to have linkages to heavy-duty statistical analysis otherwise known as "sabermetrics".

The gist of Moneyball was that the A's, by application of statistical analysis, were able to identify how to best acquire talent that allowed the team to compete at a high level, despite the low level of payroll that the A's could afford. A variety of strategies were used. The team identified certain baseball skills as being undervalued in the marketplace. On-base percentage was famously a big deal. So was slugging percentage. Stealing bases was overvalued. Closers were overvalued, etc.

The essence of it all was to find a competitive business advantage for the A's in a marketplace of baseball players and baseball general managers that was, up to that time, inefficient at ferreting out truly useful talent. And the A's, by virtue of using this strategy, were cleaning the clocks of pre-enlightenment teams. Moneyball was about beating the competition by finding a competitive advantage on the cheap and working it.

Today, I think it is safe to say that every Major League Baseball team is aware of sabermetrics and the importance of it, whether they use statistics heavily or moderately. Adaptation in a competitive marketplace requires participants to constantly "up the ante" when a successful new strategy emerges. In the case of the A's, they succeeded in a way that was conspicuous and embarrassing to many other MLB teams. Other teams caught on pretty quickly to what the A's were doing at the time and why it was important.

Now that all teams are paying attention to the obvious benefits of statistical "sabermetric" analysis, the advantage of relying on statistical analysis has been eliminated, or reduced to nearly nothing. Now teams must use it just to keep up with everyone else. To gain an advantage over other teams, new strategies and new sources of competitive advantage must be identified and exploited.

It's a classic example of the Red Queen's hypothesis: "It takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place." In other words, an entity must continually adapt in order to continue to out-compete other continually adapting entities. Executing well-established strategies at a high level is not enough. Innovation is required.

I think a small porn company can compete by identifying new tactics, whether it's producing quality niche content like Kink.com does or developing unique styles of shooting like Mike Adriano's POV+ or new concepts like Jaysin's films, quality content will always sell. John Stagliano knows this and that's why he hand picks the best directors for his company. Take the guys that run that Fucked Hard 18 site for example, they get the girls fresh off the bus from Ohio or wherever and they shoot them first, that's their edge over the competitor. Then you have the other tactics such as inundating potential customers with free porn in hopes that they'll buy a membership to your site filled with lackluster vanilla content, it probably worked great when they first started but i'll bet you their sales decline after awhile.

Tube sites were the sabermetrics of porn, and now that the cats out of the bag everyone is jumping on the bandwagon in hopes of gleaning what they can out of them and the company's associated with them. But there will always be money to be made for those who can think out of the box and develop new tactics.

gideongallery · 09-19-2011, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dig420

whoever wrote that post doesn't run a paysite and never has, and if you can read that and not see the massive fail in it then you probably haven't either. A ratio of 1/50 has NEVER been achievable with normal SE traffic.

it has been possible but under a very specific situation
you own the pornstarname.com
you have the first 5 positions on every search engine
and google didn't dominate the market

ie when yahoo was free, and made multiple catagories days

Quote:

That's a ratio you only get from a fine tuned and heavily filtered email campaign. During the BEST days, 1/300 was pretty damn respectable. Thinking you can base your business on the judgement of models is insane. Not knowing that about half the people like a talkative model and half like them quiet and half like them to look at the camera and half of them hate it and they ALL want the dudes to STFU... well there's just no way you can be in this biz and not have absorbed that knowledge. You can't please everyone, so you pick your audience and you cater to it. If you're aware of ANOTHER audience you're attracting and not satisfying, then you build something for them and redirect them.

This thread is basically a lot of jacking off.

the key point is conversion failing at a rate faster or slower then the growth of the traffic

if it take me 10 minutes to get a million hits where i could only get 10,000 in the same amount of time, then conversion can go from 1:10 to 1:1000 and i am still equal.

it actually the best time now because you can get ungodly traffic and you can convert tube traffic in 1:374 level now.

Paul Markham · 09-19-2011, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shotsie

I think a small porn company can compete by identifying new tactics, whether it's producing quality niche content like Kink.com does or developing unique styles of shooting like Mike Adriano's POV+ or new concepts like Jaysin's films, quality content will always sell. John Stagliano knows this and that's why he hand picks the best directors for his company. Take the guys that run that Fucked Hard 18 site for example, they get the girls fresh off the bus from Ohio or wherever and they shoot them first, that's their edge over the competitor. Then you have the other tactics such as inundating potential customers with free porn in hopes that they'll buy a membership to your site filled with lackluster vanilla content, it probably worked great when they first started but i'll bet you their sales decline after awhile.

Absolutely, In UK mail order porn 20 years ago, it was often enough to produce the product, stick an advert in all the mens magazines and just pick up the cash at the PO Box. Today it's a totally different game.

You need an amalgamation of talents. From traffic to content.

You need someone to drive the traffic. Or to focus affiliates to drive it.
Someone to market the product.
Someone to design the tour.
Someone to program the whole thing.
Someone to get the right content.

It's a team effort these days.

Quote:

Tube sites were the sabermetrics of porn, and now that the cats out of the bag everyone is jumping on the bandwagon in hopes of gleaning what they can out of them and the company's associated with them.

Tube sites just made a problem a disaster. They took 1,000s of customers and offered them free content and the effect was so huge the disater grew from a problem. Besides opening more Tube sites, what have people done to combat?

Quote:

But there will always be money to be made for those who can think out of the box and develop new tactics.

Very true. Some in this industry think the solution lies in staying in their box even when the sides are falling in. The future isn't in more Tubes or more traffic, it's in more conversions and retention from the same number of surfers.

porno jew · 09-19-2011, 04:40 AM

you know how hard it is to get real converting traffic? how much time goes into it? money? genius? just fuck off paul. no one wants you here you senile retard.

Just Alex · 09-19-2011, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

My sites have always had traffic. It's the stupidest of stupid assumptions to assume they never had any. They would of closed 10 years ago with NO traffic. But stupid is Squealers middle name.

Did I have enough traffic to make sign ups? Well enough even today to keep the sites open.

Were the sites our only focus of business. No way, just a third string.

Crazy that a person who visited our studio and offices, met the studio staff, the office staff, saw the 2,000 sq ft studio. Thought he was not offering me enough to kiss his ass. Thinks we did all that, ran 4 sites with no traffic.

Squealer, you're too funny.

cashcows · 09-19-2011, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konda

Not a dime is spend less in online porn compared to 10 years ago.

Show the stats that prove that statement. A whole lot less is being spent per person than years ago. Production is down every where. And in a crappy economy when FREE is an option. Many people opt for free.

The problem is the same as the music industry. People would rather get it free than pay and it's easier to get porn free than to even sign up at a site.

That's the problem. This whole give a way massive samples of porn is what has caused the problems, TGP, Tube sites, and piracy being the least detrimental of the three.

When free content is more accessible then paid content you have a serious problem in any market.

Got the food court at a mall, They give out a sample the since of a quarter. Hoe much food do you think they'd sell if the gave out 1/2 to 3/4 a sandwich?

The same thing is now happening in the info product sector. They are Moving the Free Line A La Eben Pagan. "Give a way your best useful but incomplete free content." This worked for the first guy in the niche. Now people hop around from info guru to info guru in a particular niche getting the BEST free content and don't buy as much.

We need a PAY TO PLAY model again NO FREE STUFF! If the first two pages of google was all links to pay sites instead of tube sites people would start paying again. As statistically people don't even look past the first couple pages.

wehateporn · 09-19-2011, 06:23 AM

Paul celebrating in style

Paul Markham · 09-19-2011, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashcows

Show the stats that prove that statement. A whole lot less is being spent per person than years ago. Production is down every where. And in a crappy economy when FREE is an option. Many people opt for free.

The problem is the same as the music industry. People would rather get it free than pay and it's easier to get porn free than to even sign up at a site.

That's the problem. This whole give a way massive samples of porn is what has caused the problems, TGP, Tube sites, and piracy being the least detrimental of the three.

When free content is more accessible then paid content you have a serious problem in any market.

Got the food court at a mall, They give out a sample the since of a quarter. Hoe much food do you think they'd sell if the gave out 1/2 to 3/4 a sandwich?

The same thing is now happening in the info product sector. They are Moving the Free Line A La Eben Pagan. "Give a way your best useful but incomplete free content." This worked for the first guy in the niche. Now people hop around from info guru to info guru in a particular niche getting the BEST free content and don't buy as much.

We need a PAY TO PLAY model again NO FREE STUFF! If the first two pages of google was all links to pay sites instead of tube sites people would start paying again. As statistically people don't even look past the first couple pages.

He can't he's got no idea what he's talking about.

Here's a little clue.

A decent video/DVD would be duplicated 10,000 times. The sales price would be $30-$40, that generates an income on sales of $300,000 to $400,000 for a single title in a single month. Then add rental. Anyone who knew offline porn will know the money taken on Rental. Some thought is was doubling sales. Than add all the people who bought a cable porn TV Channel. It's estimated there were 10,000 videos titles released every year.

So that covers the US for 1 title, 1 month. Now think of the rest of the world.

Of course this was prior to Internet porn. When so many porn buyers found out they could get it for free, or download a years viewing in a few days (remember all the complaints about members downloading everything, canceling and not buying for months?) and all those horrible fuckers charging back at the end of the month.

For years I sat and read about TGPs losing sales because some have too much hard core in. That members were just downloading a complete site and not buying again or retaining and of course the terrible people who canceled or charged back.

Problems offline porn never had. Customers never took back a video they bought, never got them for free and only got 90 minutes to 120.

Now people after all these years of moaning are claiming online is the biggest thing to hit porn. If it is, it's only because offline has shrunk down to the size of online.

TheSquealer · 09-19-2011, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porno jew

you know how hard it is to get real converting traffic? how much time goes into it? money? genius? just fuck off paul. no one wants you here you senile retard.

Of course he knows! Haven't you been listening. Traffic is "easy to get" and "Content is king". That's why he is super wealthy. He has the hard part... the content. Traffic is a breeze. Conversions? Thats where the magic join links come into play!

Didn't you see the threads where he was offering to donate his wealth to the needy?

No?

That's because he was actually here begging for money because he was broke. He then continued to explain how even his wife had to take a job to make ends meet. And bear in mind, this is right in the middle of him launching pay sites and shooting content and just being generally awesome all day long and telling everyone else how they need to shoot content and run their business

WarChild · 09-19-2011, 07:03 AM

Guys just stop arguing with him. Let him have threads chalk full of his own posts and nobody elses.

TheDoc · 09-19-2011, 07:05 AM

More powerful fail tips from gfy's proudest troll.

Paul Markham · 09-19-2011, 07:08 AM

dig420 raised a good point about what turns men on.

Prior to free online porn the buyer had no options. He bought what turned him on. Today, some have an option besides buying.

If your tastes are wide and you don't care who the girls are and don't care if they have 2 working brain cells. Then the temptation to buy is solely down to HD or SD. And clearly with the traffic on the major Tubes, most don't care about HD.

These easily pleased guys are gone.

So what, besides HD, will convince someone to buy and then stay in a porn site today? This is fairly general, so be nice.

Reality. This is number 1. Whether it's Ex GF or Penthouse the porn consumer wants it real. He doesn't want some fake actor banging out the same scene she's banged out 50 times before or like she's seen it. This is why so many turn to amateur, if done right it's real or more real. So faked orgasm are something to beware of, girls trotting out the same lines are also not good. It needs the passion of a Hollywood love scene.

Not hard to make it real. Just make it real. girls who want to fake it badly can go home. The carrot for doing it right is to get another days work, then another and another.

Personality. Without it whats to distinguish one girl from the next? So many girls are presented as pieces of meat. If the surfer wants that he can get it in tons of a Tube site, no need to spend a dime. This is essential for Gonzo and why the real Gonzo stars are stars in their own right. Not just a dick and a voice.

Variety. So many sites are full of the same scene over and over again. All they change is the sofa and girl. Get some imagination into the porn scene.

Value. Goes without saying.

Quality. Nothing to do with HD, lighting or focusing or anything Cherry7 prizes so highly. It's the quality of the porn that makes a dick hard. Getting models to do a good job, give something of themselves and framing (so many shooters shoot girls standing and kneeling with a widescreen camera it's amazing). Jel thinks anyone can shoot porn. He's wrong. Anyone can point a camera at a naked girl, getting porn out of her takes a lot more skills. Looking at his site http://www.mixedracelesbos.com/ I would say he proves how easy it is to produce bad porn and a bad porn site.

He competes in a market that's saturated. There are 10,000s of sites with crap porn on. This thread is about good porn and getting more money from the same traffic.

Alex, Pleasure King told us a long time ago that Alexa stats are a joke and no one serious cares about them. So one of you is wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild

Guys just stop arguing with him. Let him have threads chalk full of his own posts and nobody elses.

So you don't want your stats to go from 1-500 to 1-400. OK then, you're not interested.

Konda · 09-19-2011, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

He can't he's got no idea what he's talking about.

Here's a little clue.

A decent video/DVD would be duplicated 10,000 times. The sales price would be $30-$40, that generates an income on sales of $300,000 to $400,000 for a single title in a single month. Then add rental. Anyone who knew offline porn will know the money taken on Rental. Some thought is was doubling sales. Than add all the people who bought a cable porn TV Channel. It's estimated there were 10,000 videos titles released every year.

I am not talking about offline. I said online. Offline I can understand it's a lot lower.

Let me rephrase:
Right now no less money is being spend on ONLINE porn (which including cams and dating) than what was being spend 10 years ago on online porn. I would go as far as saying that MORE money is being spend.

People that work in online porn who make less money than they did 10 years ago failed to adapt or innovate.

TheDoc · 09-19-2011, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Alex, Pleasure King told us a long time ago that Alexa stats are a joke and no one serious cares about them. So one of you is wrong

Alexa is a ranking tool, not a statistics tool, stat wise it is a joke, rank wise it's not.

Compare sites in the same niche, if say neither host galleries on the paysite domain, and use aff traffic mostly, then 'ranking wise' it's damn near perfect.

However, we can simply look your sites up in compete and see you don't get much traffic, enough to maybe make 10 sales a day, on your biggest days.

TheDoc · 09-19-2011, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konda

I am not talking about offline. I said online. Offline I can understand it's a lot lower.

Let me rephrase:
Right now no less money is being spend on ONLINE porn (which including cams and dating) than what was being spend 10 years ago on online porn. I would go as far as saying that MORE money is being spend.

People that work in online porn who make less money than they did 10 years ago failed to adapt or innovate.

Paul thinks porn was larger before the Internet and even smaller after 15 years of the Internet porn.

Your argument is pointless, trust me, I've already tried it.

CaptainHowdy · 09-19-2011, 08:56 AM

dig420 · 09-19-2011, 11:02 AM

My point Paul, is that you don't actually know what you're talking about here. You need to be asking questions and listening instead of lecturing.

The SMART way to go about it is to open up your icq and find someone who's had some serious success and is still in the game, who is patient enough to answer your questions and help you monetize your content in ways that actually make sense. Conversely, you can use the Alien biz model of thinking that you already know what you need to know, keep spinning your wheels and wonder why you're working so hard and not making any money.

TheSquealer · 09-19-2011, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dig420

My point Paul, is that you don't actually know what you're talking about here. You need to be asking questions and listening instead of lecturing.

Really, as a long time program owner in adult online who has been running affiliate programs since 98 or so, you don't want to be lectured by a broke, demented idiot about how YOU should run your business and why YOU are doing wrong??

Personally, I would just be happy he took time off from his daily routine of resending his astronaut application to NASA and arguing with squirrels in the park to help you out.

will76 · 09-19-2011, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Who said "No traffic"?

The problem today isn't no traffic. It's not enough traffic to age a single sign up. When 99 get off for free, well not free it's paid for by the 1 who buys, something is wrong. When 999 get off for free it's a big problem. When 4,999 get off for free it's a disaster.

We have worked the traffic end for years and clearly this is where we got. From 99 getting off for free to around 4,999 now getting off for free. Does that mean traffic is the problem or in it lies the solution?

If traffic is so easy to get Paul, then why do you have none?

Argos88 · 09-19-2011, 12:50 PM

well.. the business is pretty done...

people dont buy anymore since everything is free at filesonic.

porno jew · 09-19-2011, 12:53 PM

i would be surprised if your sites had 500 uniques a day all together.

BAKO · 09-19-2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

More powerful fail tips from gfy's proudest troll.

shade001 · 09-19-2011, 12:59 PM

Paul, you forget some of us were around when you started your paysite and had to lead you by the hand getting your tour straightened out. It was pretty hard to do so as you would never admit you did anything wrong, you just argued in circles until you finally made changes without admitting you didn't know what you were doing in the first place.

I also know many of your affiliates back then so yeah, you had SOME traffic b/c of THEM. You never figured that out either. Generally, their conversions were shit while your stats showed of course magical stats right out of a unicorn's ass.

So know that you are only blowing smoke up your own ass. No one else is buying it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

My sites have always had traffic. It's the stupidest of stupid assumptions to assume they never had any. They would of closed 10 years ago with NO traffic. But stupid is Squealers middle name.

Did I have enough traffic to make sign ups? Well enough even today to keep the sites open.

Were the sites our only focus of business. No way, just a third string.

Crazy that a person who visited our studio and offices, met the studio staff, the office staff, saw the 2,000 sq ft studio. Thought he was not offering me enough to kiss his ass. Thinks we did all that, ran 4 sites with no traffic.

Squealer, you're too funny.

Sid70 · 09-19-2011, 01:06 PM

Paul = Nalem?

porno jew · 09-19-2011, 01:09 PM

paul if traffic is so easy to get make a site and get it up to 50k uniques a day. should be easy to do. let us know how it goes.

Paul Markham · 09-19-2011, 01:51 PM

Maybe Jel is right about my traffic skills.

But they don't seem so bad once you include the galleries.

Paul Markham · 09-19-2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konda

I am not talking about offline. I said online. Offline I can understand it's a lot lower.

Let me rephrase:
Right now no less money is being spend on ONLINE porn (which including cams and dating) than what was being spend 10 years ago on online porn. I would go as far as saying that MORE money is being spend.

People that work in online porn who make less money than they did 10 years ago failed to adapt or innovate.

Show the stats that prove you're right.

Jakez · 09-19-2011, 02:03 PM

Paul is going to tell us how to get traffic? Lol

I am getting under 1:100 consistently (across 100's of signups) on some programs. Even if you knew how to get the traffic you still have to know what to do with it.

Edit: oh wait, the thread started out as a traffic discussion and Paul quickly trolled himself (that's a new one!) and derailed his own thread into talking about conversions and other nonsense again.

09-19-2011, 12:28 AM	#2
sponsorpimp Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,567	Yes please tell us Paul how to put it right... __________________

09-19-2011, 12:32 AM	#3
charlie g Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Center of the Universe Posts: 2,758	There's a correlation to traffic and sales. No traffic= no sales *LOL, sound like fatfoo __________________ AlanAgus1 at gmail dot com -------------------------------

09-19-2011, 12:59 AM	#7
charlie g Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Center of the Universe Posts: 2,758	You can have the best content in the world and if no one sees it.............. __________________ AlanAgus1 at gmail dot com -------------------------------

09-19-2011, 02:19 AM	#12
Zorgman Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 6,103	I've seen this happen before. 1. Sponsors launch program 2. Sponsor gets affiliates with high payouts. 3. Sales come in from all over the place and it's going well. 4. Sponsors realize they are only getting a small payout. 5. Sponsor cuts affiliate program without telling their affiliates. 6. Bank lots of cash. It's hard for the affiliate these days. Your traffic has to come from multiple sources otherwise your going to take a drop in sales. __________________ ---

09-19-2011, 02:56 AM	#18
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	My sites have always had traffic. It's the stupidest of stupid assumptions to assume they never had any. They would of closed 10 years ago with NO traffic. But stupid is Squealers middle name. Did I have enough traffic to make sign ups? Well enough even today to keep the sites open. Were the sites our only focus of business. No way, just a third string. Crazy that a person who visited our studio and offices, met the studio staff, the office staff, saw the 2,000 sq ft studio. Thought he was not offering me enough to kiss his ass. Thinks we did all that, ran 4 sites with no traffic. Squealer, you're too funny. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

09-19-2011, 12:56 AM	#6
papill0n Unregistered Abuser Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 15,547	very good points paul

09-19-2011, 12:59 AM	#8
dig420 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 9,240	whoever wrote that post doesn't run a paysite and never has, and if you can read that and not see the massive fail in it then you probably haven't either. A ratio of 1/50 has NEVER been achievable with normal SE traffic. That's a ratio you only get from a fine tuned and heavily filtered email campaign. During the BEST days, 1/300 was pretty damn respectable. Thinking you can base your business on the judgement of models is insane. Not knowing that about half the people like a talkative model and half like them quiet and half like them to look at the camera and half of them hate it and they ALL want the dudes to STFU... well there's just no way you can be in this biz and not have absorbed that knowledge. You can't please everyone, so you pick your audience and you cater to it. If you're aware of ANOTHER audience you're attracting and not satisfying, then you build something for them and redirect them. This thread is basically a lot of jacking off.

09-19-2011, 01:10 AM	#9
Jack Sparrow Almost goners.. Industry Role: Join Date: May 2008 Location: Netherlands Posts: 11,420	The dog is probably dragging you along troll.

09-19-2011, 02:31 AM	#15
Jel Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,904	100k? Uniques? To sponsors? Per MONTH? Are you CRAZY, mofo?

09-19-2011, 03:01 AM	#19
Jel Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,904	The main question here is, is paul the only one who doesn't know that no-one reads his posts, and that his troll attempts = him getting trolled into making yet more lengthy 'arguments', that don't get read, time after time? For me, that's the funniest part of all.

09-19-2011, 03:51 AM	#23
Shotsie Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: 12th & Tree Posts: 1,208	I don't know if you're a baseball fan but if you are you should go pick up the book Moneyball by Michael Lewis, or go see the movie when it comes out. It's a prime example of adaptation in the marketplace and I think there's a strong correlation between porn and Major League Baseball, or any business for that matter. The book revolves largely around Billy Beane, general manager of the Oakland Athletics, during the 2002 season. It describes some of the tactical philosphies used by the A's in playing the game and in acquiring and using players. Everything appears to have linkages to heavy-duty statistical analysis otherwise known as "sabermetrics". The gist of Moneyball was that the A's, by application of statistical analysis, were able to identify how to best acquire talent that allowed the team to compete at a high level, despite the low level of payroll that the A's could afford. A variety of strategies were used. The team identified certain baseball skills as being undervalued in the marketplace. On-base percentage was famously a big deal. So was slugging percentage. Stealing bases was overvalued. Closers were overvalued, etc. The essence of it all was to find a competitive business advantage for the A's in a marketplace of baseball players and baseball general managers that was, up to that time, inefficient at ferreting out truly useful talent. And the A's, by virtue of using this strategy, were cleaning the clocks of pre-enlightenment teams. Moneyball was about beating the competition by finding a competitive advantage on the cheap and working it. Today, I think it is safe to say that every Major League Baseball team is aware of sabermetrics and the importance of it, whether they use statistics heavily or moderately. Adaptation in a competitive marketplace requires participants to constantly "up the ante" when a successful new strategy emerges. In the case of the A's, they succeeded in a way that was conspicuous and embarrassing to many other MLB teams. Other teams caught on pretty quickly to what the A's were doing at the time and why it was important. Now that all teams are paying attention to the obvious benefits of statistical "sabermetric" analysis, the advantage of relying on statistical analysis has been eliminated, or reduced to nearly nothing. Now teams must use it just to keep up with everyone else. To gain an advantage over other teams, new strategies and new sources of competitive advantage must be identified and exploited. It's a classic example of the Red Queen's hypothesis: "It takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place." In other words, an entity must continually adapt in order to continue to out-compete other continually adapting entities. Executing well-established strategies at a high level is not enough. Innovation is required. I think a small porn company can compete by identifying new tactics, whether it's producing quality niche content like Kink.com does or developing unique styles of shooting like Mike Adriano's POV+ or new concepts like Jaysin's films, quality content will always sell. John Stagliano knows this and that's why he hand picks the best directors for his company. Take the guys that run that Fucked Hard 18 site for example, they get the girls fresh off the bus from Ohio or wherever and they shoot them first, that's their edge over the competitor. Then you have the other tactics such as inundating potential customers with free porn in hopes that they'll buy a membership to your site filled with lackluster vanilla content, it probably worked great when they first started but i'll bet you their sales decline after awhile. Tube sites were the sabermetrics of porn, and now that the cats out of the bag everyone is jumping on the bandwagon in hopes of gleaning what they can out of them and the company's associated with them. But there will always be money to be made for those who can think out of the box and develop new tactics.

09-19-2011, 04:40 AM	#26
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	you know how hard it is to get real converting traffic? how much time goes into it? money? genius? just fuck off paul. no one wants you here you senile retard.

09-19-2011, 06:23 AM	#29
wehateporn Promoting Debate on GFY Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 27,173	Paul celebrating in style __________________ Sexy Girls Teasing

09-19-2011, 07:03 AM	#32
WarChild Let slip the dogs of war. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bermuda Posts: 17,263	Guys just stop arguing with him. Let him have threads chalk full of his own posts and nobody elses. __________________ .

09-19-2011, 07:05 AM	#33
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	More powerful fail tips from gfy's proudest troll. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

09-19-2011, 08:56 AM	#38
CaptainHowdy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Happy in the dark. Posts: 92,999	__________________ FLASH SALE INSANITY! deal with a 100% Trusted Seller Buy Traffic Spots on a High-Quality Network 1 Year or Lifetime — That’s Right, Until the Internet Explodes!

09-19-2011, 11:02 AM	#39
dig420 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 9,240	My point Paul, is that you don't actually know what you're talking about here. You need to be asking questions and listening instead of lecturing. The SMART way to go about it is to open up your icq and find someone who's had some serious success and is still in the game, who is patient enough to answer your questions and help you monetize your content in ways that actually make sense. Conversely, you can use the Alien biz model of thinking that you already know what you need to know, keep spinning your wheels and wonder why you're working so hard and not making any money.

09-19-2011, 12:50 PM	#42
Argos88 So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,732	well.. the business is pretty done... people dont buy anymore since everything is free at filesonic.

09-19-2011, 12:53 PM	#43
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	i would be surprised if your sites had 500 uniques a day all together.

09-19-2011, 01:06 PM	#46
Sid70 Downshifter Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Road trip Posts: 16,413	Paul = Nalem? __________________ Русня, идите нахуй!

09-19-2011, 01:09 PM	#47
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	paul if traffic is so easy to get make a site and get it up to 50k uniques a day. should be easy to do. let us know how it goes.

09-19-2011, 01:51 PM	#48
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	Maybe Jel is right about my traffic skills. But they don't seem so bad once you include the galleries. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

09-19-2011, 02:03 PM	#50
Jakez Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: oddfuturewolfgangkillthemall!!!!!!! Posts: 5,656	Paul is going to tell us how to get traffic? Lol I am getting under 1:100 consistently (across 100's of signups) on some programs. Even if you knew how to get the traffic you still have to know what to do with it. Edit: oh wait, the thread started out as a traffic discussion and Paul quickly trolled himself (that's a new one!) and derailed his own thread into talking about conversions and other nonsense again. __________________ [email protected] - jakezdumb - 573689400 Killuminati Last edited by Jakez; 09-19-2011 at 02:08 PM..