Here is a paysite idea I wanted to try on Twistys. Feel free to give it a shot

[Shap]

Here is an idea I had for Twistys. We never had a chance to implement and try it. I don't know if it would work. Feel free to try it and if it works or you want to try and want to bounce ideas off me hit me up

I'll type this out with the points that led and formed the idea.

Point 1. In order for Twistys to have a bright future I felt it was important that we be able to have a strong presence on Tube sites and be able to make money from it. Just uploading videos wouldn't be enough. We also had to be able to buy ad spots and make money from it.

Point 2. Tours are relatively unchanged in the past 5 years which is absolutely mind blowing when you think about it. Things have changed so much in the past 5 years but not how paysites are sold.

Point 3. Tube sites offer huge exposure for your brand. There has never been a greater opportunity to get your brand to more eyeballs than ever before. The key is being effective in how you get your brand out there.

Point 4. The competition is greater than ever. Instead of worrying about just your paysite competition you now have to worry about all the tubes that offer a product (for free) that may actually be superior to a product you are charging for.

Point 5. Paysites are not the item tube surfers are most likely to buy. We all know that. Tube sites are not surviving on Paysite ad sales or paysite revenues.

Point 6. The success of most paysites will depend on how well they can buy traffic and make money from it. 5 years ago you could do very well relying heavily on affiliates to help you build your business. That is no longer true. To be one of the leaders in the industry, more than ever, you have to be able to acquire and make money from traffic on your own. No more relying on affiliates.

Those are a few points to give you an idea of how i viewed the situation and came up with the idea.

If a surfer lands on Twistys from a tube site the only way I make money from them is if they become a Twistys monthly member. I was completely limiting the amount of money I could make from those surfers. We were able to convert the traffic but nowhere near a level that would allow us to start spending money on ad spots, which translated to me being able to stay in business today but not making any strides to being successful and competitive in the future.

My Idea
I wanted to change our tour to sell multiple Twistys branded products and do our best to try to direct the traffic to the right area right off the bat. You land on the tour and have the options to go in a few directions.

Like our Twistys Videos? Click here to enter our Twistys Videos Section
Like our Models and want to chat with them? Click here for Twistys Cams
Like our Pictures and would like to see more? Click here for a Twistys Pictures section
Want to date one of our Models? Click here for Twistys Dating

The idea is the landing page pushes what the Twistys Brand is about (Beautiful Women) but also expands and gives us a chance to make money on the most popular products that are selling on Tube sites. Cams are selling? We build a sales section of the tour devoted to selling to people that like cams. Penis Pills selling we build a section to sell that.

In each section you then cater to selling that section. Pictures sell very different than Videos. A lot of our members collect pictures. Many of them of one specific model. Why not offer the ability to buy all the sets of that one model, or let them buy one zip to complete their collection. You then do the same for each offering you have.

My thinking was if I spent $10,000 on tube ad spots there was a good chance I would only be able to make $2000 to $5000 in Twistys monthly memberships off that ad. If I could add another $2500 in cams sales, another $1000 in micro option sales, and another $1000 in hot product sales that gets me a lot closer to my initial investment and makes it viable to increase my ad buys.

Here's another thing you can do. A new killer selling site comes out why not capitalize on it? Let's say BangBros launches a new site that is selling gangbusters. Get on board and either sell a banner spot or send via their program. So you have your initial Twistys offerings and below those you push the new hot site. The key is making as much money as possible while growing your brand.

Sorry for the long post. I thought the more ideas background information I included would help someone develop on this

What do you guys think?

[ottopottomouse]

It's only a random idea and i've not thought it through at all but with a site in the style of Twistys what about the underwear? I don't mean used underwear - I mean new.

To men, ordinary underwear shops play on the idea that your wife / girlfriend / mistress / etc could suddenly look as inviting as this clothing model if you buy something from them. To women, ordinary underwear shops induce the delusion that you personally could suddenly look fucking amazing if you buy something from them and with the site having full photosets rather than just a normal underwear catalogues 2 pictures there already is an example of fucking amazing for them to dream of.

The idea of women thinking they will suddenly look stunning is a bit mental but if you look at somewhere like annsummers.com >> lingerie none of the models represent the average woman's figure but I know a couple of women who run Ann Summers parties and the amounts that people will spend on impulse on things that are really going to make them look like complete mutton is incredible.

[topsiteking]

Love how you think.

[PornDiscounts-R]

I think your posts can never be too long.
Great read, thanks

[Wizzo]

Greatout of the box thinking as always Shap! If someone needs that traffic let me know...

[Captain Kawaii]

Great post, Shap! Excellent ideas much needed today. Thank you, sir.

[Pseudonymous]

To be honest, I think unless you are a very big player in this industry, which twistys (manwin now) is, buying all these ad spots from tube sites isn't as profitable as one would think. These surfers are non buyers from my experience, im in the solo niche and i've seen models videos get on there, get the top viewed video and not even have any sort of spike of sales, after 500,000+ views. Its actually quite depressing. I think most could spend 10,000 on ads and not get close to 10,000 back, even in the long run.

Maybe if you have a brand like twistys that is EXTREMELY large and can cater to almost any area (dating, cams, solo, etc) but how many players are like that in this industry anymore?

I completely agree that the whole style of tour could definitely use some out of the box thinking and fresh ideas. It's not as common for people to try new ideas because the profit margin has decreased so much over the years that taking risks isn't the best option. These days its best to play the safe route unless you have the capital to recover from failed projects

[Spunky]

Interesting reading material

[topsiteking]

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

To be honest, I think unless you are a very big player in this industry, which twistys is (they have a massive collection) - buying all these ad spots from tube sites isn't as profitable as one would think. These surfers are non buyers from my experience, im in the solo niche and i've seen models videos get on there, get the top viewed video and not even have any sort of spike of sales, after 500,000+ views. Its actually quite depressing. I think most could spend 10,000 on ads and not get close to 10,000 back, even in the long run.

Maybe if you have a brand like twistys that is EXTREMELY large and can cater to almost any area (dating, cams, solo, etc) but how many players are like that in this industry anymore?

Note:This is NOT me trying to sell anything.
But,if a models video is on page one with 500,000+ views and you see NO spike in sales...Something is very very wrong.

[TheDoc]

Great post.... with point #5, many of the top tubes make 6 figures a month off of paysites alone. Shap, if you would like me to show you where and how, hit me up.

When buying tube traffic, you know how much your average-high sale value is really worth, that's the mark per-sale. If the tube goes above that per-sale, you drop them, otherwise you're making a profit every single time. Do a one week test, see the value of the traffic, and you'll know if it's worth buying more from.

I'll keep the rest under my hat

[cherrylula]

all good til the tube sites don't want to sell you traffic because you are selling the same things they are...

[Nautilus]

So you have a dating service where subscribers can date Twistys models? Is it for real?

[FlexxAeon]

i always thought that naughty america is (was?) going down this avenue when introducing things like naughty america direct, naughty america live, their deep link tour, etc.

the branding is the key. less "manwin", more "playboy" (no, paul, i'm not talking about the content shooting style)

[Pseudonymous]

Originally Posted by topsiteking

Note:This is NOT me trying to sell anything.
But,if a models video is on page one with 500,000+ views and you see NO spike in sales...Something is very very wrong.

Seen it many times, ive had an autumn masturbation video on a tube site (tube8) before i noticed it and sent a dmca and had it removed right after that. I went back and looked at the date it was released and they were average days at best, most of the sales the few days after were pretty much from affiliates so i knew they couldn't have sent more than one (max)

I also tested a very good affiliate website (petiteteenager's tube site - which gets videos alot of views) and when a new gallery hits it, i dont see any sales from them, even when i gave them an exclusive full length. However when a new photoset hits their photo page, sells like crazy with very little traffic.

I have more experiences but im sure you get the point.

Those are just from my experience. I have also asked many other owners and they have had the same experience with their models. No spikes when their videos hit tubes, even when they had massive views.

And im not being biased, autumn is a newer model and shes very high in the list of top models in the niche, so if anyone is going to sell, its going to be her, she sells pretty well.

Im not sitting here saying it's impossible, im just saying, it takes alot of trial and error and alot more error in my opinion. And unless you have something that hits many markets, it will be extremely hard. Or something very unique. But as far as the typical paysite goes, extremely hard to profit on tubes.

My view on it, if you start doing marketing via tubes, youre going to put your content in the crosshairs of the people you rather not, tube surfers are the ones that search the net for free content. Theyre the type of surfers who share content and upload them to filelockers, etc. - while i may be stereotyping, i dont believe im wrong. flying under the radar and converting better, is sometimes the way to go.

I feel like i should mention again that i do think you can profit from tubes, but it really depends what you have. If you aren't a large player, i wouldn't recommend it.

[AJHall]

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

To be honest, I think unless you are a very big player in this industry, which twistys (manwin now) is, buying all these ad spots from tube sites isn't as profitable as one would think. These surfers are non buyers from my experience, im in the solo niche and i've seen models videos get on there, get the top viewed video and not even have any sort of spike of sales, after 500,000+ views. Its actually quite depressing. I think most could spend 10,000 on ads and not get close to 10,000 back, even in the long run.

Maybe if you have a brand like twistys that is EXTREMELY large and can cater to almost any area (dating, cams, solo, etc) but how many players are like that in this industry anymore?

I completely agree that the whole style of tour could definitely use some out of the box thinking and fresh ideas. It's not as common for people to try new ideas because the profit margin has decreased so much over the years that taking risks isn't the best option. These days its best to play the safe route unless you have the capital to recover from failed projects

In the case of a solo site it doesn't need to be cams, pills, dating, etc. it can be ANYTHING that will convert a certain type of traffic. The main thing is to try to offer something for sale that the surfer isn't already getting for free (videos). In your case this might be accomplished by using different tours and then creating a landing page that links to all the different tours.

Examples:
Build 1 tour that heavily showcases personal interaction with the model (Autumn), 1 that showcases collectable photo content, 1 that showcases videos, 1 that offers tips from Autumn on how to be a better lover, tips on how to get a girl like Autumn...etc. but to get those things, you need to join...

Since you're using Elevated X as the CMS that runs your site it's easy to setup multiple tours. I'll be happy to help you do things like this. It will be a good experiment for sure.

There's no cost involved aside from the time to designing the various tours and landing pages so it's well worth testing to see if it leads to more sales.

I'd love to see more of our CMS customers go this direction.

Let me know if you want to give it a go.

AJ

[Brujah]

Sure, but how many toilets do you have?

[19teenporn]

There's another thing most of big programs don't realize.
Tubes take most of the traffic because they are really big! Huge!
They have lots of videos!

Now, twitys say they have 46,000+ Videos for their members. Do you guys give your LEGAL TUBE affiliates 46,000+ hosted FLVs so they can create HUGE TUBES, MAKE YOUR BRAND HUGE too and maybe take some traffic from illegal tubes??

Videosz has 59142 scenes for their members. Does videosz give your LEGAL TUBE affiliates 59142 hosted FLVs so they can create HUGE TUBES, MAKE YOUR BRAND HUGE too and maybe take some traffic from illegal tubes??

Bangbros: "Browse through over 9 years of updates. Thousands and thousands of updates. Da Shiz." Do they give their LEGAL TUBE affs thousands and thousands of hosted FLVs so they can create HUGE TUBES, MAKE YOUR BRAND HUGE too and maybe take some traffic from illegal tubes??

Reality Kings: "We have the biggest porn collection on the net" "Our Girls; Over 6000 hotties". Do they give their LEGAL TUBE affs th biggest collection of hosted FLVs on the net so they can create HUGE TUBES, MAKE YOUR BRAND HUGE too and maybe take some traffic from illegal tubes??

Brazzers? Naughty America? Reality Cash? New Sensations? HustlerCash, etc, etc, etc?

It's the same for almost every single sponsor.

They don't do it.

Give us a fucking hosted FLV for each and every one of your scenes, and we will create lots of HUGE LEGAL TUBES wich will take lots of illegal tubes traffic.

But with a handfull of hosted FLVs there's nothing we can do.

[Pseudonymous]

Originally Posted by AJHall

In the case of a solo site it doesn't need to be cams, pills, dating, etc. it can be ANYTHING that will convert a certain type of traffic. The main thing is to try to offer something for sale that the surfer isn't already getting for free (videos). In your case this might be accomplished by using different tours and then creating a landing page that links to all the different tours.

Examples:
Build 1 tour that heavily showcases personal interaction with the model (Autumn), 1 that showcases collectable photo content, 1 that showcases videos, 1 that offers tips from Autumn on how to be a better lover, tips on how to get a girl like Autumn...etc. but to get those things, you need to join...

Since you're using Elevated X as the CMS that runs your site it's easy to setup multiple tours. I'll be happy to help you do things like this. It will be a good experiment for sure.

There's no cost involved aside from the time to designing the various tours and landing pages so it's well worth testing to see if it leads to more sales.

I'd love to see more of our CMS customers go this direction.

Let me know if you want to give it a go.

AJ

While there is some truth to what youre saying, there is only a few things you could target your tours towards without completely exaggerating what your site offers. And the two major ones being videos and photos and tube traffic could care less about photos, the same way mgp traffic to tgps was completely useless. And I really dont think a solo girls site has the videos to influence a tube surfer to subscribe and break out their credit card, even with the complete custom tour.

While i do think the interaction is what could influence them, to the point of breaking even on what you spent on your overpriced/unproductive tube traffic. I simply dont believe so.

For niches such as solo, i believe the majority of them find your site regardless if you do alot of the basic marketing and actually work unlike the majority of webmasters these days. So i dont think theres a huge untapped market. These guys still signing up to solo girl website have been doing so for years and go through the same affiliate sites to find the new ones. They aren't surfing around pornhub.

It's not a giant market like dating, cams, etc

I do think you can make a profit on tube sites, it sounds like in the original post that anyone in any niche can try this. I think alot of people could waste big money if they think buying a ton of tube traffic could benefit them. Go ahead and test a little bit but i do believe you'll have the same experiences as most of the other solo program owners have had that i have spoken to.

I do say that targeting your tours towards where youre buying your ad placements is a good idea and you should definitely use custom tours. It will most likely increase revenues. What im questioning is to the point of profiting on general tube traffic.

and aj, im sure ill be contacting you down the road here soon about the idea of implementing some custom tours Im working on the next site when i get back into town in a couple weeks.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

It's only a random idea and i've not thought it through at all but with a site in the style of Twistys what about the underwear? I don't mean used underwear - I mean new.

To men, ordinary underwear shops play on the idea that your wife / girlfriend / mistress / etc could suddenly look as inviting as this clothing model if you buy something from them. To women, ordinary underwear shops induce the delusion that you personally could suddenly look fucking amazing if you buy something from them and with the site having full photosets rather than just a normal underwear catalogues 2 pictures there already is an example of fucking amazing for them to dream of.

The idea of women thinking they will suddenly look stunning is a bit mental but if you look at somewhere like annsummers.com >> lingerie none of the models represent the average woman's figure but I know a couple of women who run Ann Summers parties and the amounts that people will spend on impulse on things that are really going to make them look like complete mutton is incredible.

Yeah that could totally work. The idea is to find something that you can sell and if you can push the brand with it it's a win win

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

Great post, Shap! Excellent ideas much needed today. Thank you, sir.

Originally Posted by topsiteking

Love how you think.

Originally Posted by thebestamateur

I think your posts can never be too long.
Great read, thanks

Originally Posted by Wizzo

Greatout of the box thinking as always Shap! If someone needs that traffic let me know...

Thanks guys

[19teenporn]

Originally Posted by Shap

Thanks guys

How about an answer for me?

[Caligari]

Blech...the ROI is so weak on tubes i gotta say whats the point?
you spend 1,000.00 to make 100 bucks but i'd much rather spend 100 bucks to make 1,000.00.
I know it's all volume etc, but i find it pretty tedious.
And as far as affiliates go, there are still many who can send far better finely tuned bankable traffic to a program rather than throw money at buying some re-fried "targeted" traffic.

In answer to number 6, the real truth is why would an affiliate send great traffic to a tube site?
Answer: i'd rather keep my 1:400 ratios thanks...

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

To be honest, I think unless you are a very big player in this industry, which twistys (manwin now) is, buying all these ad spots from tube sites isn't as profitable as one would think. These surfers are non buyers from my experience, im in the solo niche and i've seen models videos get on there, get the top viewed video and not even have any sort of spike of sales, after 500,000+ views. Its actually quite depressing. I think most could spend 10,000 on ads and not get close to 10,000 back, even in the long run.

Maybe if you have a brand like twistys that is EXTREMELY large and can cater to almost any area (dating, cams, solo, etc) but how many players are like that in this industry anymore?

I completely agree that the whole style of tour could definitely use some out of the box thinking and fresh ideas. It's not as common for people to try new ideas because the profit margin has decreased so much over the years that taking risks isn't the best option. These days its best to play the safe route unless you have the capital to recover from failed projects

I think you are thinking about this too narrowly. If you have a model that had 500,000 views there is something there. Whether it's the model or the type of video. The key MAY BE throwing out everything that seems logical and that you've learned in the biz and trying to attack this from a different angle.

You have a solo girl that kills on views. Does she do cams? Have you tried pushing cams on the landing page (and the domain url in the video)? What about girls that look like her why not push the surfers to girls that look like that girl?

Reality is you take a site like Xhamster doing over a million a month. You say you can't make your money on it. Others are. My thinking was HOW do i get a piece of that?

Like theDoc said some sites are converting tubes well enough to advertise on them. I wanted to change my tour so I could first come close to covering my ad costs and then improve the Twistys sales pitch to tube surfers. So at the end of the day Twistys brand would be bigger, Twistys tour would sell tube surfers better and Twistys memberships sell better to tube traffic.

It's a rough idea and I wrote it catered specifically to Twistys. It can be modified to any size imo.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by 19teenporn

How about an answer for me?

LOL I'm trying to reply in order LOL

[SZNY]

interesting ideas, Shap what would you suggest for new pay sites start ups related to getting exposure on tubes vs investment budgets ?

[Shap]

Originally Posted by 19teenporn

There's another thing most of big programs don't realize.
Tubes take most of the traffic because they are really big! Huge!
They have lots of videos!

Now, twitys say they have 46,000+ Videos for their members. Do you guys give your LEGAL TUBE affiliates 46,000+ hosted FLVs so they can create HUGE TUBES, MAKE YOUR BRAND HUGE too and maybe take some traffic from illegal tubes??

Videosz has 59142 scenes for their members. Does videosz give your LEGAL TUBE affiliates 59142 hosted FLVs so they can create HUGE TUBES, MAKE YOUR BRAND HUGE too and maybe take some traffic from illegal tubes??

Bangbros: "Browse through over 9 years of updates. Thousands and thousands of updates. Da Shiz." Do they give their LEGAL TUBE affs thousands and thousands of hosted FLVs so they can create HUGE TUBES, MAKE YOUR BRAND HUGE too and maybe take some traffic from illegal tubes??

Reality Kings: "We have the biggest porn collection on the net" "Our Girls; Over 6000 hotties". Do they give their LEGAL TUBE affs th biggest collection of hosted FLVs on the net so they can create HUGE TUBES, MAKE YOUR BRAND HUGE too and maybe take some traffic from illegal tubes??

Brazzers? Naughty America? Reality Cash? New Sensations? HustlerCash, etc, etc, etc?

It's the same for almost every single sponsor.

They don't do it.

Give us a fucking hosted FLV for each and every one of your scenes, and we will create lots of HUGE LEGAL TUBES wich will take lots of illegal tubes traffic.

But with a handfull of hosted FLVs there's nothing we can do.

Whenever anyone came to me with their plan to promote Twistys I'd always listen to it and if it was in line with how we wanted the brand pushed I'd give them whatever tools they needed (which was often the case).

Catering to the general mass of affiliates is no longer something of high priority to most affiliate programs. Why? Because everybody has a specific need and the reality is releasing mass tools for affiliates yields very low returns. We took a different approach. Instead of catering to all our affiliates as a mass (ie trying to create tools everybody would like) we catered on an individual level. Our reps hit up our affiliates and discussed how they were pushing us and asked specifically what they needed from us and then we'd develop those tools on an individual basis.

If you feel you have a way that can really make sites money here is my advice for you. Create a mock design of how it would look. Create a one page summary (be concise unlike myself ) and tell programs this is your business plan. Take a business approach to this. Pitch what you have in mind to them. The companies you want to do business with will listen and probably work with you. Get some success for a few programs and you'll have everybody wanting to get on board.

[Robbie]

Lots of people (including me) have been doing this idea on our non-affiliate tours all along. And yes, it works.

The trade-off for me has always been this: How many sales do I want to make to OTHER people (cams, VOD, etc.) off of my non-affiliate/type-in tour as opposed to making for myself?

That's where the trick to it is. Yes, you want to sell SOMETHING to as many people as you can. But you don't want to lose a FULL sale to someone who came to your site looking for a specific thing and have them lured away by somebody else's shit that you're advertising and only get a percentage of.

It's a tricky thing to do.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Lots of people (including me) have been doing this idea on our non-affiliate tours all along. And yes, it works.

The trade-off for me has always been this: How many sales do I want to make to OTHER people (cams, VOD, etc.) off of my non-affiliate/type-in tour as opposed to making for myself?

That's where the trick to it is. Yes, you want to sell SOMETHING to as many people as you can. But you don't want to lose a FULL sale to someone who came to your site looking for a specific thing and have them lured away by somebody else's shit that you're advertising and only get a percentage of.

It's a tricky thing to do.

I think if you are a one man shop with limited resources you definitely have to be careful where your time and money is spent. However if you have a way of buying $5000 of traffic and only make $1000 on it to your sites but $4000 from external sales I'd take that in a heartbeat for the free exposure the brand gets. You do that 20 times and the exposure and experience (of selling that traffic) really elevates your site/product.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by SZNY

interesting ideas, Shap what would you suggest for new pay sites start ups related to getting exposure on tubes vs investment budgets ?

DAMN that's a hard one. You don't want to start learning on paid tube traffic, that's a fast track way to blowing all your money imo. You'd want to find your best selling site, get some free tube exposure and make sure it's your best selling tube site and start small and start hitting hit with more and more traffic.

[Peter Romero]

Give the people what they want? That's a horrible idea. See Starbucks biz model.

[Pseudonymous]

Originally Posted by Shap

I think you are thinking about this too narrowly. If you have a model that had 500,000 views there is something there. Whether it's the model or the type of video. The key MAY BE throwing out everything that seems logical and that you've learned in the biz and trying to attack this from a different angle.

You have a solo girl that kills on views. Does she do cams? Have you tried pushing cams on the landing page (and the domain url in the video)? What about girls that look like her why not push the surfers to girls that look like that girl?

Reality is you take a site like Xhamster doing over a million a month. You say you can't make your money on it. Others are. My thinking was HOW do i get a piece of that?

Like theDoc said some sites are converting tubes well enough to advertise on them. I wanted to change my tour so I could first come close to covering my ad costs and then improve the Twistys sales pitch to tube surfers. So at the end of the day Twistys brand would be bigger, Twistys tour would sell tube surfers better and Twistys memberships sell better to tube traffic.

It's a rough idea and I wrote it catered specifically to Twistys. It can be modified to any size imo.

Sadly i have a model that doesn't do cam shows, so youre right, that would be another bonus. And if i did, i would push that pretty hard

But you have to look at what im telling you, im talking next to 0 sales. Your model can do cams, you can change your tours to target something else, etc etc . But if youre getting 500,000 views from tube sites and getting next to 0 sales, if you think you can tinker around enough to break even, youre going to most likely lose money on the situation.

I said you can make money off sites like xhamster but do I think the typical paysite can, the typical paysite having a smaller-medium collection, or only one model, its pretty rare.

I believe what would work for a company the size of twistys and the typical is very different.

I know you wrote that specifically talking about your idea for twistys and your post will get people thinking for sure, so im all for it. I was only knocking the tube traffic and giving my experiences and opinion on the traffic so every new business doesn't think they can go buy some tube traffic and that they can profit from it with some custom tours. Sometimes you simply dont have a product or selection that could sway tube surfers to break out the credit card, which is more likely than a few guys around here are making it out to be

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Caligari

Blech...the ROI is so weak on tubes i gotta say whats the point?
you spend 1,000.00 to make 100 bucks but i'd much rather spend 100 bucks to make 1,000.00.
I know it's all volume etc, but i find it pretty tedious.
And as far as affiliates go, there are still many who can send far better finely tuned bankable traffic to a program rather than throw money at buying some re-fried "targeted" traffic.

In answer to number 6, the real truth is why would an affiliate send great traffic to a tube site?
Answer: i'd rather keep my 1:400 ratios thanks...

Who said anything about sending to a tube site?

I think you completely missed the point. Are you an affiliate or paysite owner? There are people getting rich off tube traffic. When I was preparing and planning our future it was obvious that if I wanted Twistys to maintain it's position in the market and have a bright future we were going to have to be really good at acquiring and monetizing tube traffic. It should be noted my goals and plans with Twistys were not to make a decent living. I always wanted to be at the top. You can't have the goal of being one of the biggest sites and not be willing to learn how the biggest source of traffic can be turned into a huge opportunity.

Obviously if you own a paysite and are perfectly happy making what you are now without making money on tube traffic then by all means tell me to gfy. I'm just trying to help those that are ambitious.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

Sadly i have a model that doesn't do cam shows, so youre right, that would be another bonus. And if i did, i would push that pretty hard

But you have to look at what im telling you, im talking next to 0 sales. Your model can do cams, you can change your tours to target something else, etc etc . But if youre getting 500,000 views from tube sites and getting next to 0 sales, if you think you can tinker around enough to break even, youre going to most likely lose money on the situation.

I said you can make money off sites like xhamster but do I think the typical paysite can, the typical paysite having a smaller-medium collection, or only one model, its pretty rare.

I believe what would work for a company the size of twistys and the typical is very different.

I know you wrote that specifically talking about your idea for twistys and your post will get people thinking for sure, so im all for it. I was only knocking the tube traffic and giving my experiences and opinion on the traffic so every new business doesn't think they can go buy some tube traffic and that they can profit from it with some custom tours. Sometimes you simply dont have a product or selection that could sway tube surfers to break out the credit card, which is more likely than a few guys around here are making it out to be

Email me. Show me some examples. I won't post it but I'll see if I can come up with some reasons as to why it did so poorly and how you can maybe turn that around.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Spunky

Interesting reading material

Thanks Spunky. I could see it working well for the right solo girls.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Great post.... with point #5, many of the top tubes make 6 figures a month off of paysites alone. Shap, if you would like me to show you where and how, hit me up.

When buying tube traffic, you know how much your average-high sale value is really worth, that's the mark per-sale. If the tube goes above that per-sale, you drop them, otherwise you're making a profit every single time. Do a one week test, see the value of the traffic, and you'll know if it's worth buying more from.

I'll keep the rest under my hat

Thanks Doc. I agree. I think for certain sites the site itself will straight up make enough to cover the costs and then for other sites it's a bitch to sell them on tubes to keep trying different tours is something that is time consuming and costly. If you take an approach where your membership site can make back 20% roi and you still break even then you are in a great position to really play around with that tour and find how to get that 20% and the conversions up.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by cherrylula

all good til the tube sites don't want to sell you traffic because you are selling the same things they are...

Tube sites don't give a shit. First they are lazy and second they rely on pre-paid $$$. They have zero interest in much beyond that. On GayTube we had people buying out our entire ad inventory and sending only 50% to themselves. They paid us a premium to send 50% internal and then sent the rest to their competitors. So that premium got them all the knowledge they needed on their competitors. Extremely valuable and wise decision imo.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Shap

I think if you are a one man shop with limited resources you definitely have to be careful where your time and money is spent. However if you have a way of buying $5000 of traffic and only make $1000 on it to your sites but $4000 from external sales I'd take that in a heartbeat for the free exposure the brand gets. You do that 20 times and the exposure and experience (of selling that traffic) really elevates your site/product.

We're already pretty well branded. And since it's a solo girl site...and she does Streamate cams...we already make another nice pile of money off of sites like Pornhub's whitelabel. And Streamate allows us to sell paysite memberships with one click off her cam.

So for us it's all good. We already get most of the big tube's traffic via the cam whitelabels and paysite sales as well. So we are making money coming and going just that way alone.

What I was saying is...as with every site, you have to be careful about what other stuff you are pushing on the main page of your tour.
You want to be able to sell as many people as you can. But at the same time you don't want to be too "spammy" and/or dilute yourself.

So I stick to stuff like Claudia Marie DVD's on AEBN and her cams on Streamate. Tried a few other things like E-Cigs...but that was a waste of my time.
Had some GREAT success with BETUS gambling sites...but thanks to the good old U.S. govt. shutting all of that down, that is gone.

I'd like to do some other things, but I need them to be tied in with her branding specifically.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Nautilus

So you have a dating service where subscribers can date Twistys models? Is it for real?

No i was giving an example and I don't have anything anymore LOL

[Pseudonymous]

Originally Posted by Shap

Email me. Show me some examples. I won't post it but I'll see if I can come up with some reasons as to why it did so poorly and how you can maybe turn that around.

Send you the video that ended up on the tube site? And you can visit the autumnriley.com to see the tour. I have a pretty good understanding of all the flaws my tour has currently and how i could better it, I just don't think i could turn 1000 dollars in tube traffic to 1000 dollars in sales by making small changes. If currently tube traffic hasn't converted anything for myself or other owners i speak to on a regular basis. Especially given the amount of traffic we've tested with so far

I believe it was a higher quality version of this video, but it was on tube8 or one of their larger tubes.

http://xogogo.com/videos/16039/autum...he-mirror.html

[19teenporn]

Originally Posted by Shap

Whenever anyone came to me with their plan to promote Twistys I'd always listen to it and if it was in line with how we wanted the brand pushed I'd give them whatever tools they needed (which was often the case).

Catering to the general mass of affiliates is no longer something of high priority to most affiliate programs. Why? Because everybody has a specific need and the reality is releasing mass tools for affiliates yields very low returns. We took a different approach. Instead of catering to all our affiliates as a mass (ie trying to create tools everybody would like) we catered on an individual level. Our reps hit up our affiliates and discussed how they were pushing us and asked specifically what they needed from us and then we'd develop those tools on an individual basis.

If you feel you have a way that can really make sites money here is my advice for you. Create a mock design of how it would look. Create a one page summary (be concise unlike myself ) and tell programs this is your business plan. Take a business approach to this. Pitch what you have in mind to them. The companies you want to do business with will listen and probably work with you. Get some success for a few programs and you'll have everybody wanting to get on board.

I don't seem to understand. Meanwhile your whole site's full scenes are being offered for free on thousands of warez forums and illegal tubes.

I, as an affiliate, just don't get it...

Give me a hosted FLV for every single one of your 40000 plus scenes, and i will make a huge tube that will compete against the illegal ones. There's no need for all that waste of time while your content is in full for free all over the internet!

[Shap]

Times are tough for most of the industry but people who know how to sell are still selling and doing well. You figure out how to sell a certain type of traffic and then you acquire as much of that traffic that you possibly can.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by 19teenporn

I don't seem to understand. Meanwhile your whole site's full scenes are being offered for free on thousands of warez forums and illegal tubes.

I, as an affiliate, just din't get it...

First of all I don't own any sites. So you are talking about someone else's stuff.

What don't you get?

[Caligari]

Originally Posted by Shap

Who said anything about sending to a tube site?

I think you completely missed the point. Are you an affiliate or paysite owner? There are people getting rich off tube traffic. When I was preparing and planning our future it was obvious that if I wanted Twistys to maintain it's position in the market and have a bright future we were going to have to be really good at acquiring and monetizing tube traffic. It should be noted my goals and plans with Twistys were not to make a decent living. I always wanted to be at the top. You can't have the goal of being one of the biggest sites and not be willing to learn how the biggest source of traffic can be turned into a huge opportunity.

Obviously if you own a paysite and are perfectly happy making what you are now without making money on tube traffic then by all means tell me to gfy. I'm just trying to help those that are ambitious.

Ambition does not need to follow the herd to the lowest common denominator, which is the tube model. This is not being a leader, it's being a follower.
When the content on your site (tube) is not the content you are selling, this is a serious problem.
You said this-

Point 6. The success of most paysites will depend on how well they can buy traffic and make money from it. 5 years ago you could do very well relying heavily on affiliates to help you build your business. That is no longer true. To be one of the leaders in the industry, more than ever, you have to be able to acquire and make money from traffic on your own. No more relying on affiliates.

The thing you are missing is that affiliates make the traffic on their own and they send it to programs to make money with their targeted traffic. (some of this is purchased traffic, although i personally have never bought traffic)
If you stop relying on affiliates to at least send you a fair percentage of sign ups, this is a huge mistake imo.

Of course I am fine with everyone getting deeper and deeper into the tube world because as i know now, the saturation levels are hitting and the only thing to do is to try to find ways of monetizing traffic which should have been paying off on selling the content on the tube in the first place.

This kind of ideology cannot last.

Unless.

Are there any big tubes right now that make the majority of their money with the content uploaded on the tube, as in selling the product which is the site's content?

[19teenporn]

Originally Posted by Shap

First of all I don't own any sites. So you are talking about someone else's stuff.

What don't you get?

Sorry then..

Thanks for your time tho'

[SZNY]

Originally Posted by Shap

DAMN that's a hard one. You don't want to start learning on paid tube traffic, that's a fast track way to blowing all your money imo. You'd want to find your best selling site, get some free tube exposure and make sure it's your best selling tube site and start small and start hitting hit with more and more traffic.

TNX for the advise! Well we share basically the same thoughts

We will start next week to launch a serie of 9 pay sites but focus with marketing only on the multi-pass site and two others.

Our strategy is partly start with media buying (see which networks converts for us), launch 3 own tubes, 10 blog sites and offer cross media features to cams and dating.

For all scenes we have previews which we want to inject in existing tubes.

I strongly believe that it takes time and that building your brand is the most important.

[19teenporn]

Originally Posted by SZNY

TNX for the advise! Well we share basically the same thoughts

We will start next week to launch a serie of 9 pay sites but focus with marketing only on the multi-pass site and two others.

Our strategy is partly start with media buying (see which networks converts for us), launch 3 own tubes, 10 blog sites and offer cross media features to cams and dating.

For all scenes we have previews which we want to inject in existing tubes.

I strongly believe that it takes time and that building your brand is the most important.

Will those scenes be enough to make a tube with just your content?

Give a lot of flvs, update frequently and you have another tube promoting you.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by 19teenporn

Sorry then..

Thanks for your time tho'

I can try to explain from the affiliate program owner point of view. What part do you not understand?

Why don't you take the approach i suggested?

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Caligari

Ambition does not need to follow the herd to the lowest common denominator, which is the tube model. This is not being a leader, it's being a follower.
When the content on your site (tube) is not the content you are selling, this is a serious problem.
You said this-


The thing you are missing is that affiliates make the traffic on their own and they send it to programs to make money with their targeted traffic. (some of this is purchased traffic, although i personally have never bought traffic)
If you stop relying on affiliates to at least send you a fair percentage of sign ups, this is a huge mistake imo.

Of course I am fine with everyone getting deeper and deeper into the tube world because as i know now, the saturation levels are hitting and the only thing to do is to try to find ways of monetizing traffic which should have been paying off on selling the content on the tube in the first place.

This kind of ideology cannot last.

Unless.

Are there any big tubes right now that make the majority of their money with the content uploaded on the tube, as in selling the product which is the site's content?

Most programs relied on affiliates for the MAJORITY of sales. Affiliates were never the majority of our sales and I believe that is a huge reason we continued to be successful during the downturn most people experienced.

Since you obviously disagree with my suggestions what are your suggestions?

Also, you never answered (although you pretty much did from your replies) whether you are an affiliate or paysite owner.

[Caligari]

Look, it should be obvious to everyone what is happening right now.
You see all of these big players buying up tubes to dump all of their content on them in order to control a larger share of traffic.
Okay.
It also should be apparent that many of these companies are no longer converting with their sites the way they used to. As a matter of fact, far less.

So what is the problem here? Much of the new content I see is great, well done and yet its harder and harder to sell...

But it's not about the paysite model per se, it's really about the kind of content being sold (saturation- niche saturation) and the cookie cutter look so many paysites now have.

So in the end you can control a larger piece of the traffic pie with tubes but what happened to the idea of producing the content which people love to buy?

What is the endgame? Mass production of tube sites that all start looking the same because they are the same because they have the same content which starts boring the shit out of people or...

The idea that content is still king?

The idea that being ambitious or a leader in this biz is actually sprung from the creation side and not from the McPorn side of the equation.

[SZNY]

Originally Posted by 19teenporn

Will those scenes be enough to make a tube with just your content?

Give a lot of flvs, update frequently and you have another tube promoting you.

Well we have around 400 scenes (3 min clips) and will continuously add new ones related to new full episodes on the pay sites.

I will contact you when we start we are now fixing the last things.