SOME of the Golden Rules of Selling - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

B.Barnato · 10-17-2011, 04:37 PM

PenisPenis.

Jakez · 10-17-2011, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The attention I get from business people is all I cared about. The attention from trolls and failures means little.

PJ is great at throwing abuse, picking holes in my statements is clearly above him. I suspect like most people like him, he has nothing to offer. Knows that and hides the fact.

Damian hasn't realised he has nothing to offer, yet still keeps offering it. Others and me have clearly pointed out how little he had to offer on his MacDonalds example. Yes he calls himself a marketing man.

LOL. Have you ever read something you're saying about others and realized you're describing yourself to a T? It happens in at LEAST 1/2 of your posts. Troll magic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Using the Golden Rules to sell your porn.

A product does not sell itself. Even the best needs some help. The worse needs a lot of help.

The easiest part online. Get people to spread your product around, adverting and promotion online is easier than other areas in selling.

How the fuck would you know?

Paul Markham · 10-17-2011, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicky

You've been selling since you were 14 so for like 70 years and you still have no clue about marketing. Good job

What do you call marketing?

It's not loading free sites with tons of free porn. It's not SEO. In fact it's nothing an affiliate should be allowed to do.

Marketing is helping to shaping the product to meet customers and market demands, then improving and guiding the sellers work.

I've worked for companies with big marketing departments, staffed by professional marketing people. They never told us to give away so much of the product for free it killed sales.

Quote:

Originally Posted by garce

Selling and marketing are not actually related.

Lots of whores can sell their bodies - few can market them in a way that generates real cashflow.

Eg.; I have a small engine repair dude and a lawn care dude who sold me their services. They do a great fucking job. They can't market themselves, though.

If they COULD market themselves, this enitre continent would be bright green - and no tiller or riding mower would ever break down.

Marketing has nothing to do with selling. A completely different animal.

You have to separate Selling, Marketing and advertising.

Most affiliates and the vast majority of surfers are on "Advertising" sites. sites with loads of adverts from sponsors. Many times the affiliate has no say in how the advert is compiled. If he did he would be having a small hand in the marketing part of the exercise.

Blogs can "market" a product. By shaping the text promoting the product.

Selling isn't laying out the goods and taking an order, that's supplying. Selling is convincing people your product fits their needs. With 1,000 thinking it won't. Then the obvious conclusion is we are very bad at supplying and if they want to link it, marketing as well.

You can call a cart horse a race horse, doesn't make it a race horse.

Paul Markham · 10-17-2011, 11:18 PM

Here's another thought. There are millions of unemployed in major Western countries.

Why don't sites employ some of these in house to do the advertising grunt work of online porn promotion?

The entry level is low, the skills of the grunt work isn't high and the costs would be low.

Please no replies from sponsors saying "If we train them, they will leave and work for others."

Seems to me a sponsor could get the work done for minimum wage.

porno jew · 10-17-2011, 11:23 PM

you don't understand the internet. please shut up already.

you are like a player piano salesman trying to lecture a rock club owner what kind of entertainment they should have.

Jakez · 10-17-2011, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Here's another thought. There are millions of unemployed in major Western countries.

Why don't sites employ some of these in house to do the advertising grunt work of online porn promotion?

The entry level is low, the skills of the grunt work isn't high and the costs would be low.

Please no replies from sponsors saying "If we train them, they will leave and work for others."

Seems to me a sponsor could get the work done for minimum wage.

As if even the average westerner especially the unemployed ones know how to sell anything online. You've been in porn over 30 years and can't even figure it out. Does that answer your question or am I just another idiot? I love you man.

Paul Markham · 10-17-2011, 11:24 PM

Is this true for many?

Quote:

I say all the time " just because you put syrup on shit it doesn't make it pancakes ".

In sales you have to believe in your product.

If you cannot believe the words coming out of your mouth, then you cannot expect anyone else too.

Cherry7 · 10-18-2011, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EukerVoorn

That's quite a bit exaggerated. McDonald's and Coke aren't the healthiest foods but they don't make you ill either and one could survive on them if neccessary.

Kids don't get ADHD from coke, they get ADHD because their parents are fucked up.

The film you need to see is "Supersize Me" , The health results of McDonald's and Coke are a Health disaster in the western world. For the first time life expectancy is failing.

porno jew · 10-18-2011, 12:55 AM

the great internet porn marketing employment project eh?

i think the unemployed's time might be better spent inspecting porn program's offices to make sure there are enough bathrooms on each floor.

Paul Markham · 10-18-2011, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

The film you need to see is "Supersize Me" , The health results of McDonald's and Coke are a Health disaster in the western world. For the first time life expectancy is failing.

Your point on MacDonalds, Coke and marketing is still irrelevant when applied to porn.

These companies have millions to spend, online porn doesn't. End of debate. Porn sponsors who boast having paid out over $1 million to affiliates, spent it after the sales were made and the money was in their bank account.

Maybe these products have an attraction for the consumer, you can't see.

Still if the money wasn't the issue. The marketing is very professional, involves more than advertising and hasn't resulted in less people buying their product. Maybe because it wasn't 90% based on giving away free burgers and Coke.

I think the disagreement between what I think is marketing and what others think is one of job specifications. I must admit marketing my porn over the years was easy. I retained clients for decades and didn't need to keep constantly replacing them. However have worked with professional marketing people and it involved a lot more than just carrying or placing adverts.

Can a lot of what the "marketing people in online porn" be done by people who are unemployed on minimum wage? What parts of it are so skilled, how much is involved in that part and how much is simple grunt work?

DamianJ · 10-18-2011, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Marketing is helping to shaping the product to meet customers and market demands,

No, that's product design. But thanks for trying!

Tofu · 10-18-2011, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

No, that's product design. But thanks for trying!

True. It's amazing how much this thread has distracted me from working on affiliate stuff. Is that the sheer power of a long-winded Paul Markham thread? Damn! Add the fact that Damian is going to banter back and forth with Paul and *poof* another 30 minutes I could have been working, GONE.

Cherry7 · 10-18-2011, 02:20 AM

I have no point to make on marketing. I know nothing about it.

So why are you replying to my point about the health issues?

You do a very good job of showing that you no nothing about it too, and by contrast that Damian does know what he is talking about.

Paul Markham · 10-18-2011, 02:21 AM

Marketing is a job of many function. And as 2 big companies have been mentioned lets look at their marketing and compare. Not the spend as that's already been done.

The big companies employ professional marketing people. Trained and experienced in the job. We don't do that very often.

They do customer research by going out and questioning people to understand their needs. We avoid real contact with members and surfers as much as possible. Though I hear a few did put up stands at the recent Berlin show. good move.

They do real market research. We follow what others do.

They engage advertising agencies to look into places and how to advertise. We don't.

They have departments researching the products, refining them, tasting them, getting them to the best they can be. for the price. We decide to shoot teen porn and go out and find the cheapest supplier possible with little idea how to guide him to make a decent product.

Product design, is something marketing departments are heavily involved in. To make sure they design the right product. Most in online porn don't have a clue what the word means. Many think product design in teen is anyone who looks under 22. And in MILF anyone who looks over 30.

In fact when it comes to product design, online porn is a complete failure most of the time. Met-Art

. Average porn site

Most think it's getting amateur shot fuzzy and badly shot and lit and good porn is HD and in focus.

Nicky · 10-18-2011, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The big companies employ professional marketing people. Trained and experienced in the job. We don't do that very often.

They do customer research by going out and questioning people to understand their needs. We avoid real contact with members and surfers as much as possible. Though I hear a few did put up stands at the recent Berlin show. good move.

They do real market research. We follow what others do.

They engage advertising agencies to look into places and how to advertise. We don't.

They have departments researching the products, refining them, tasting them, getting them to the best they can be. for the price. We decide to shoot teen porn and go out and find the cheapest supplier possible with little idea how to guide him to make a decent product.

Product design, is something marketing departments are heavily involved in. To make sure they design the right product. Most in online porn don't have a clue what the word means. Many think product design in teen is anyone who looks under 22. And in MILF anyone who looks over 30.

Talk for your self old man.

Paul Markham · 10-18-2011, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicky

Talk for your self old man.

Goodbye.

There is a tendency to confuse what we do in online porn with what happens in other industries. Tap water and bottled water is a classic. Now we have people comparing the marketing of Coca Cola and MacDonalds with the marketing of online porn.

Just because a horse has 4 legs and a tail, it doesn't mean it can run like Red Rum or Arkle. We need to realise that.

In online porn selling often means giving away the product for free. Not selling. We think marketing often means giving away the product for free, that's not marketing.

This is the fundamental problem when selling porn. The order of importance given to each sector of the business. There are one or two exceptions, but this is the normal rule.

1. Marketing. Everything to do with driving traffic to a tour.

2. Design.

3. Billing.

4. CMS

5. Hosting.

6. Product.

On 1-5 most spend as much as required to get the best solution. On 5 most buy the cheapest. Even though Hosting is cheap, most want the best for their situation. Paysites normally want the best.

Forgive me if I missed something out. Probably just included it in another sector.

So the customer has twigged and now knows the odds are your type of content is on 10-50 Tubes free of charge. And on 100s of sites you have to fight with to get a sign up. Even then the member doesn't stay long, so you have to fight to replace him.

You have to have something worth buying to sell it well.

The truly sad thing is in these threads few can offer a better way. Yes they can point to examples that have no relevance. but rarely does anyone point to something they are doing that is better.

Here's this one again.

Quote:

Here's another thought. There are millions of unemployed in major Western countries.

Why don't sites employ some of these in house to do the advertising grunt work of online porn promotion?

The entry level is low, the skills of the grunt work isn't high and the costs would be low.

Seems to me a sponsor could get the work done for minimum wage.

Please lots of replies from sponsors saying "If we train them, they will leave and work for others." Will give you the chance to reply.

TheSquealer · 10-18-2011, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Goodbye.

There is a tendency to confuse what we do in online porn with what happens in other industries. Tap water and bottled water is a classic. Now we have people comparing the marketing of Coca Cola and MacDonalds with the marketing of online porn.

Just because a horse has 4 legs and a tail, it doesn't mean it can run like Red Rum or Arkle. We need to realise that.

In online porn selling often means giving away the product for free. Not selling. We think marketing often means giving away the product for free, that's not marketing.

This is the fundamental problem when selling porn. The order of importance given to each sector of the business. There are one or two exceptions, but this is the normal rule.

1. Marketing. Everything to do with driving traffic to a tour.

2. Design.

3. Billing.

4. CMS

5. Hosting.

6. Product.

On 1-5 most spend as much as required to get the best solution. On 5 most buy the cheapest. Even though Hosting is cheap, most want the best for their situation. Paysites normally want the best.

Forgive me if I missed something out. Probably just included it in another sector.

So the customer has twigged and now knows the odds are your type of content is on 10-50 Tubes free of charge. And on 100s of sites you have to fight with to get a sign up. Even then the member doesn't stay long, so you have to fight to replace him.

You have to have something worth buying to sell it well.

The truly sad thing is in these threads few can offer a better way. Yes they can point to examples that have no relevance. but rarely does anyone point to something they are doing that is better.

Here's this one again.

Please lots of replies from sponsors saying "If we train them, they will leave and work for others." Will give you the chance to reply.

You dropped this at the last show. Sorry I couldn't get it to you sooner!

nico-t · 10-18-2011, 04:45 AM

omg...

... another completely useless thread...

Jel · 10-18-2011, 05:11 AM

Tuesday lulz's received

B.Barnato · 10-18-2011, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Here's another thought. There are millions of unemployed in major Western countries.

Why don't sites employ some of these in house to do the advertising grunt work of online porn promotion?

Okay that's enough, fuck you for wasting precious interwebs and killing people's brain cells.

Paul Markham · 10-18-2011, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nico-t

omg...

... another completely useless thread...

Put all the useless idiots on ignore then.

The shame is so few can come up with a debate. Barry is good. The rest say little. Some say a lot, but it means little.

Is this in the wrong order?

1. Marketing. Everything to do with driving traffic to a tour.

2. Design.

3. Billing.

4. CMS

5. Hosting.

6. Product.

And has that helped the industry as a whole of hurt it?

DamianJ · 10-18-2011, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Put all the useless idiots on ignore then.

For 3 hours like you do?

LOL!

Barry-xlovecam · 10-18-2011, 12:01 PM

You need to design a product for the trend-setters in the Market(place) -- without that being done right you are dead-in-the-water -- especially with a small business developer's budget.

You have to have the "it's cool and new -- I want this" viral aspect. Sell the "dream" they will use the product!

You can't afford to make costly mistakes and survive.

If you think you can slap shit on the wall and hope it sticks -- McDonalds becomes your option.

TheSquealer · 10-18-2011, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Your point on MacDonalds, Coke and marketing is still irrelevant when applied to porn.

It is relevant to this conversation you fucking moron because they were examples used to explain to YOU what marketing is.

Don't you wonder why no one listens to you Paul?

Don't you get why the only people engaging with you are people who want to make fun of you?

Don't you find it a little odd that when any serious business person starts a business thread its constructive and respectful and when you do it, its just people making fun of you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~

THIS IS THE BEST ADVICE YOU'LL EVER GET

People are reacting to who and what you are and how you act. Its a reflection of you and what you are, not of those who mock you (although obviously little good can be said for those who waste their time doing it). When you change your attitude, the world will change its attitude towards you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~

You start with flawed premises and misguided analogies and criticize elements of a business that you know nothing about. Thats why people make fun of you. Thats why no one will "debate" you... its not a debate. It's people making fun of an old man thats running around the park naked telling everyone he's a badger, who can't understand why no one wants to debate and discuss badger life. Nothing more.

Jel · 10-18-2011, 01:08 PM

Cue wankham's reply along the lines of "yes but what would you rather be, the badger or the gamekeeper? Neither. The gun is king. Now tell me I'm lying." or some other equally inane shit

Paul Markham · 10-18-2011, 01:21 PM

At last an intelligent answer. Thanks Barry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

You need to design a product for the trend-setters in the Market(place) -- without that being done right you are dead-in-the-water -- especially with a small business developer's budget.

You have to have the "it's cool and new -- I want this" viral aspect. Sell the "dream" they will use the product!

You can't afford to make costly mistakes and survive.

If you think you can slap shit on the wall and hope it sticks -- McDonalds becomes your option.

ottopottomouse · 10-18-2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jel

Cue wankham's reply along the lines of "yes but what would you rather be, the badger or the gamekeeper? Neither. The gun is king. Now tell me I'm lying." or some other equally inane shit

Normally you gas badgers.

Paul Markham · 10-19-2011, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

You need to design a product for the trend-setters in the Market(place) -- without that being done right you are dead-in-the-water -- especially with a small business developer's budget.

You have to have the "it's cool and new -- I want this" viral aspect. Sell the "dream" they will use the product!

You can't afford to make costly mistakes and survive.

If you think you can slap shit on the wall and hope it sticks -- McDonalds becomes your option.

The problem with 90% of even 99.9% of people in online porn is they are totally unable to create anything for themselves.

So when you say.

design a product for the trend-setters in the Market(place)

And
"it's cool and new -- I want this" viral aspect.

They are lost. Best they will do is copy others and hope it works.

Sponsors, and affiliates.

Sell the "dream" they will use the product! You do know for most in online porn you might as well be talking in Chinese for all they understand this to mean. You have to know the dream to sell it.

These are bottom line basic and marketing tactics.

Create a product people want to buy.
Make it new and innovative.
Sell the dream of the buyer using the product.

Or go copy Youtube and sling mud at the wall, by giving away a mediocre product?

Which route did online porn take?

Jel · 10-19-2011, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

Normally you gas badgers.

You need to think outside the box.

10-17-2011, 11:18 PM	#104
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	Here's another thought. There are millions of unemployed in major Western countries. Why don't sites employ some of these in house to do the advertising grunt work of online porn promotion? The entry level is low, the skills of the grunt work isn't high and the costs would be low. Please no replies from sponsors saying "If we train them, they will leave and work for others." Seems to me a sponsor could get the work done for minimum wage. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

10-18-2011, 02:20 AM	#113
Cherry7 Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	I have no point to make on marketing. I know nothing about it. So why are you replying to my point about the health issues? You do a very good job of showing that you no nothing about it too, and by contrast that Damian does know what he is talking about. __________________ My Neighbour Butterfly PORN-The Musical The Long Goodbye Cinema Erotique

10-18-2011, 02:21 AM	#114
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	Marketing is a job of many function. And as 2 big companies have been mentioned lets look at their marketing and compare. Not the spend as that's already been done. The big companies employ professional marketing people. Trained and experienced in the job. We don't do that very often. They do customer research by going out and questioning people to understand their needs. We avoid real contact with members and surfers as much as possible. Though I hear a few did put up stands at the recent Berlin show. good move. They do real market research. We follow what others do. They engage advertising agencies to look into places and how to advertise. We don't. They have departments researching the products, refining them, tasting them, getting them to the best they can be. for the price. We decide to shoot teen porn and go out and find the cheapest supplier possible with little idea how to guide him to make a decent product. Product design, is something marketing departments are heavily involved in. To make sure they design the right product. Most in online porn don't have a clue what the word means. Many think product design in teen is anyone who looks under 22. And in MILF anyone who looks over 30. In fact when it comes to product design, online porn is a complete failure most of the time. Met-Art . Average porn site Most think it's getting amateur shot fuzzy and badly shot and lit and good porn is HD and in focus. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

10-18-2011, 04:45 AM	#118
nico-t emperor of my world Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: nethalands Posts: 29,903	omg...... another completely useless thread...

10-18-2011, 12:01 PM	#123
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	You need to design a product for the *trend-setters* in the Market(place) -- without that being done right you are dead-in-the-water -- especially with a small business developer's budget. You have to have the "it's cool and new -- I want this" viral aspect. Sell the "dream" they will use the product! You can't afford to make costly mistakes and survive. If you think you can slap shit on the wall and hope it sticks -- McDonalds becomes your option. Last edited by Barry-xlovecam; 10-18-2011 at 12:02 PM..

10-17-2011, 04:37 PM	#101
B.Barnato So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,618	PenisPenis.

10-17-2011, 11:23 PM	#105
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	you don't understand the internet. please shut up already. you are like a player piano salesman trying to lecture a rock club owner what kind of entertainment they should have.

10-18-2011, 12:55 AM	#109
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	the great internet porn marketing employment project eh? i think the unemployed's time might be better spent inspecting porn program's offices to make sure there are enough bathrooms on each floor.

10-18-2011, 05:11 AM	#119
Jel Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,904	Tuesday lulz's received

10-18-2011, 01:08 PM	#125
Jel Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,904	Cue wankham's reply along the lines of "yes but what would you rather be, the badger or the gamekeeper? Neither. The gun is king. Now tell me I'm lying." or some other equally inane shit