Why do webcam sponsors convert so poorly?

[cordoba]

I mean relatively, considering that the reasons 'you can't make money from porn anymore' - abundance of free amateur stuff and theft on tubes and forums, doesn't apply to the webcam genre.

If you want to chat live to a sexy girl there aren't many free sites that can guarantee it.

So how come webcam sponsors don't convert like porn did in 1999?

I used to have a site that was first page of Google for loads of key terms, including 'webcam girls', and it still only made one or two sales a day at 1:800

I know a lot of people do better than that, but I read a lot of other webmasters here grumbling that cams can be difficult to convert. Just wondering why that should be.

[adultzone]

I have not try to promote any webcam sponsor at the moment, what I have try is the dating sponsors which converts really good!

[helterskelter808]

Originally Posted by cordoba

I read a lot of other webmasters here grumbling that cams can be difficult to convert. Just wondering why that should be.

They send shitloads of useless traffic.

[DamianJ]

Send UK traffic to partychat.tv - totally different because users pay using their cell phones. Nothing is given away free. Works like a treat.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by cordoba

I mean relatively, considering that the reasons 'you can't make money from porn anymore' - abundance of free amateur stuff and theft on tubes and forums, doesn't apply to the webcam genre.

If you want to chat live to a sexy girl there aren't many free sites that can guarantee it.

So how come webcam sponsors don't convert like porn did in 1999?

I used to have a site that was first page of Google for loads of key terms, including 'webcam girls', and it still only made one or two sales a day at 1:800

I know a lot of people do better than that, but I read a lot of other webmasters here grumbling that cams can be difficult to convert. Just wondering why that should be.

Webmasters can grumble about being difficult to convert, or they can talk to me, we have 15 years of stats and a support staff, we me and Matt, that don't mind sharing the results of those stats. We convert better now than we did in 1999, but then we've been in business since 1996.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by helterskelter808

They send shitloads of useless traffic.

This + a little bit of:

[blofer80]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

This + a little bit of:

Yup thats the main answer i guess

[porno jew]

maybe thousands of webmasters all competing with each other over the same 20-30 sites? there is only so much paying surfer to go around.

[Jarmusch]

All the current camsites are suffering from overexposure caused by the bazillion tube popunders. What you need is something fresh, something like MyRealCamGirls that will launch soon and WILL convert like it's 1999.

[Barry-xlovecam]

A few webmaster's stats to compare:

webmaster 1 sends 48962 uniques and makes 40 sales = 1:1223
webmaster 2 sends 64978 uniques and makes 1196 sales = 1:54
webmaster 3 sends 474 uniques and makes 0 sales = 0:474

It's all about traffic quality -- #1 is TGP, #2 is SEO and AdWords, #3 ?

We don't shave -- I wear a beard

[Jakez]

Is SE traffic the only way of converting decent or do any cam sponsors have some promo tools that will do 1:1000 or less on your average porn site?

[porno jew]

Originally Posted by Jarmusch

All the current camsites are suffering from overexposure caused by the bazillion tube popunders. What you need is something fresh, something like MyRealCamGirls that will launch soon and WILL convert like it's 1999.

that's true. i am holding out some hope for MRCG to turn things around for us.

[Vendzilla]

[QUOTE=Jarmusch;18537659]All the current camsites are suffering from overexposure caused by the bazillion tube popunders. QUOTE]

Not the case, sales are up

[digitalfantasies]

Originally Posted by cordoba

I mean relatively, considering that the reasons 'you can't make money from porn anymore' - abundance of free amateur stuff and theft on tubes and forums, doesn't apply to the webcam genre.

If you want to chat live to a sexy girl there aren't many free sites that can guarantee it.

So how come webcam sponsors don't convert like porn did in 1999?

I used to have a site that was first page of Google for loads of key terms, including 'webcam girls', and it still only made one or two sales a day at 1:800

I know a lot of people do better than that, but I read a lot of other webmasters here grumbling that cams can be difficult to convert. Just wondering why that should be.

1 : 800 what a coincidence, looks a lot like my 1 : 8



BTW, my overall ratio is 1:19 (over a period of 2 years) for that program...

[digitalfantasies]

I am just kidding... but in all seriousness, you should do better with some relevant SE traffic...

BTW, did I just posted a screenshot of my stats and some of my earnings? I thought nobody did that here.. WTF is going on?

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by Jakez

Is SE traffic the only way of converting decent or do any cam sponsors have some promo tools that will do 1:1000 or less on your average porn site?

I wish I could give you a straight answer to your question but it is hard for me to envision the *Goldilocks* Porn site -- or the one that is just right ...

There are just so many variables ... But let me make this one point clear; referrals are costly to get for both us and you and we want to have the best conversion rates so both of us make good money -- the objective for both of us is the same -- to convert referrals into sales.

Getting back to your question, here are our promo tools of our ACWM affiliate program for XloveCam.com: Demo pages - http://www.acwm.biz/promotools.html?...37683-11042011 Our two latest promo tools, the Instant Registration API script and the Email Catcher Tool are not listed here yet. I would encourage you to look at the demos and see what would best fit into your site's design.

Personally, I like interactive tools like http://www.acwm.biz/demo/livechat.html You can configure many aspects of the CSS affecting the tool's colors to either fit in with your design or to be more intrusive to your visitor.

I think that the conversion rates will be there for you but the rebills, in our case re-purchases (our customers initiate their own purchases -- chargebacks are rare occurrences for us) -- have been very strong with most of our (and your) customers being satisfied and repurchasing. We are in this for the long term and only offer Lifetime Revenue Sharing at competitive rates. 30% for most countries *20% FR BE CH.

We don't depend on cookies so saturation by pop-ups is not an option for us.

I would be happy to discuss this in private in detail and put you in touch with our Affiliate Manager or one of our Affiliate Reps.

[Babaganoosh]

I think I stopped promoting cams back in 2008 or so. Conversions slowed and the amount earned from each sale got smaller until it just wasn't worth it for me.

When my virtuagirl sales almost doubled my cam income one month, that was it for me.

[digitalfantasies]

yeah... there is obviously no money in cams...

[Jman]

If you got serious traffic hit me up ;)

[VladS]

Mainly because cams are expensive like shit for the average user, so in order to make bank with cams, you need the best of the best traffic.

[digitalfantasies]

well obviously cams are not for everyone, I've read countless threads of webmasters complaining about cams...

but the same holds true for other stuff, I can convert cams... but I do not have a clue how to convert porn paysites, how to make money with tubes... decently... so just do whatever converts best for you and focus on that...

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Gsx-R

Mainly because cams are expensive like shit for the average user, so in order to make bank with cams, you need the best of the best traffic.

logitech HD webcams for just over $40

[adultmobile]

The main difference of cams VS normal sites, is that in normal site each guy bring same $$ like $20, so conversion ratio is same as income.
In cams, 1:100 or 1:1000 or 1:10000 means not much as who is this 1, a guy who spend $20 once in a life or $20,000 a year? Both can happen.
To make stats on cams need send lots traffic, with small traffic you can be or very lucky or very unlucky as too small sample.
So we buy those popunder and blind skimmed from trashiest tube's and cj's (and chocker traffic yes LOL) and some time we fish the guy who spend $5000 a month, there into the trash, believe it or not. This pay back the 1:10,000 conversion - but had to buy few million hits before to trap the whale, if we stopped a moment before we was in loss.
And this is why we buy spots and traffic in k's rather than rely so much into affiliates - if we get the big guy from our own traffic ads we keep his sales, a rev share of a $50,000 a year whale would be painful. In fact we not hasve rev share at all, we give pps only.
So I think who have lots sale (as big tubes) can make good $$ in cams due to volume it contains the whales, the big sites all sell spots to streamate or jasmin etc. no one miss to put the cams. The smaller traffic guys need too much luck or time to fish the big guys.
Of course there's cam specific traffic sources with high conv ratio but is small total traffic and people who have such, is like member areas traffic it is so nice but it is so few finally.

[VladS]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

logitech HD webcams for just over $40

Deal of the day.

[Jayvis]

Best way to convert cam users is through an integrated API system. Give them a free account in the same breath of them signing up to your own site. White label it, brand it and bam... watch the sales come in.

[Vendzilla]

Hard to convert?,
It's a free sign up,
120 free credits.
seems pretty easy!!

[HandballJim]

Japanese cams are paying my monthly Mortgage and then some, with yahoo search traffic and some good keyword domains. Have not worked on anything in several months.

[Fob]

Siri, find me a camgirl to talk to.

It converts bad because cams are free now....mfc, chaturbate. And maybe the economy is dying too.

[Roald]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Hard to convert?,
It's a free sign up,
120 free credits.
seems pretty easy!!

Sorry but yes for the average site/webmaster cams are hard to convert.

Your posts can't change that

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Webmasters can grumble about being difficult to convert, or they can talk to me, we have 15 years of stats and a support staff, we me and Matt, that don't mind sharing the results of those stats. We convert better now than we did in 1999, but then we've been in business since 1996.

Yes talk to the man who advertises on a piracy forum.

He will tell you the solution is to do as he does.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by cordoba

I mean relatively, considering that the reasons 'you can't make money from porn anymore' - abundance of free amateur stuff and theft on tubes and forums, doesn't apply to the webcam genre.

If you want to chat live to a sexy girl there aren't many free sites that can guarantee it.

So how come webcam sponsors don't convert like porn did in 1999?

I used to have a site that was first page of Google for loads of key terms, including 'webcam girls', and it still only made one or two sales a day at 1:800

I know a lot of people do better than that, but I read a lot of other webmasters here grumbling that cams can be difficult to convert. Just wondering why that should be.

This has to be one of the dumbest posts in years.

The answer in simplest terms is. The idiots run the asylum and it's turned a great way to make money into a shit way to make money.

See the above post for one of the reasons, he will now tell us it's a"rogue affiliate" .

[Paul Markham]

With hindsight it's easy to see why online porn has turned into what it is today. For cams, some dating and paysites.

I used to have a site that was first page of Google for loads of key terms, including 'webcam girls', and it still only made one or two sales a day at 1:800

This is the reason. That's about the worst ratio possible. Even if it's people hitting a TGP or Tube it's very bad. If it's people going to the sponsor well it's beyond bad it could be called a disaster area of sales. Yet this will get lots of people coming in to defend it and throw abuse. To hide the basic fact, they accept it.

Never was like that, still it was obvious where it was going. As traffic grew, ratios got worse.

Online porn broke some fundamental rules when selling a repeat buy product. They treated it like a once only buy. That's fatal for a product based on a monthly subscription.

When selling something you want people to keep buying, all the marketing is for naught once the CC details are entered. Then the product will justify a customer keeping a subscription or buying again. Customer satisfaction with his purchase is all that matters.

His willingness to buy again is essential. If he doesn't like one version of the product, he will try another, if he doesn't like that version he will try another and so on until he finds one that fills his expectations or decides they all pretty well the same. And becomes very reluctant.

The product is what keeps him buying.

When it comes to converting a lot of the "marketing" is pointless. It's the samples and his experience with previous purchases that determine his actions. So if a site is converting a 1-500 it's losing 499 people interested to take a look. That's appalling. Most find excuses for it, there are none. It's a problem. 499 are hitting a banner, going to a site and not impressed enough to spend $30.

The reason is simple. Affiliates rule. Traffic isn't king if affiliates own it. If you have to spend 30%-40%-50% of a sale on affiliates to get that sale. The money has to come from somewhere. The only place it can come is the product.

The supply of good quality product isn't determined by what one site, or many, can afford to pay. It's determined by what others can afford. Online ended up with an inferior product that didn't impress customers well enough.

This applies to cams. the money the girls earned was usually very bad very bad, the money the studio earned wasn't great either. I know because I've had people promise me the earth. If I achieve this, do that, buy this, spend that. If it's so easy, why do you need me to do it?

2007/2008 cheap BW hit the house of straw. And the big bad free porn wolf blew the house down. Supporting the supporters of the big bad wolf. Isn't going to change it.

Now you can all just tell me I don't know shit. While typing from your spare bedrooms. And not making any logical replies.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

When it comes to converting a lot of the "marketing" is pointless. It's the samples and his experience with previous purchases that determine his actions. So if a site is converting a 1-500 it's losing 499 people interested to take a look. That's appalling. Most find excuses for it, there are none. It's a problem. 499 are hitting a banner, going to a site and not impressed enough to spend $30.

That is so wrong it is borderline delusional -- if 500 people are going to be drawn into the "sales conversion funnel," as they examine the product as presented to them -- some will fall off and won't buy;

1.) They were redirected to the product's website against their will (bulk traffic CJ skims) -- these show the poorest conversion ratios.

2.) If they acted on the website's banner or ad;

a.) the product does not meet their expectations. (Poor quality or value in the buyer's eyes)
b.) the buyer's questions or objections to buying are not answered or overcome by the sales approach of the website.
c.) the buyer doesn't have the available money. (Broke-Dick)
d.) the website does not offer acceptable billing terms. (Buyer does not like (or accept) the available payment options or his credit card is rejected for some reason (erroneous scrubbing).

At any rate, out of 50,000 potential buyers only 1:25, 50, 100, 500 or 1,000 are going to purchase the rest will be lost in the sales conversion funnel as stated above.

PT Barnum may have said that there is a sucker born every day but most of them will never buy from you if you expect to make a living off the few that will that makes you a sucker too I guess ...

There are "lay-down sales" and "tough sells" if you just skim for the lay-down buyer your sales will suck that is the ugly truth.

Everyone can't be a top seller there needs to be burger flippers at McDonalds too. Some can learn to succeed at selling and business and most cannot.

This phenomena of e-commerce has a short history and selling in the online world is very different than the bricks and mortar world. I was involved in face-to-face selling of medium to big ticket items for years I averaged 1:4 to 1:2 in my sales conversion but I realize with the selling methods of the Internet this could never be achieved.

[Matt 26z]

Cam conversions suck because it's so hard to send qualified traffic here in 2011.

If they pay PPS, your referral must never have been a member before. This is a huge differance from regular paysites. It's how they can do $100-$250 PPS. You are sending sales, but not getting credit.

For lifetime recurring your referral might already be owned by another affiliate. And if that would-be recurring sale has previously been a PPS referral for another affiliate, you get no credit.

It won't happen but affiliates need to brighten up and pull all links to the major cam sponsors. You are being ripped off bigtime.

[porno jew]

going for the pps is for third world retards anyway.

[porno jew]

yay. clueless has take a break from his blog to share his deluded broken record wisdom. great.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Roald

Sorry but yes for the average site/webmaster cams are hard to convert.

Your posts can't change that

Roald, nothing but love, but I spend a lot of time showing my accounts how to convert better. Not just the big accounts.

Having 15 years of stats helps

[MPGdevil]

Originally Posted by Jayvis

Best way to convert cam users is through an integrated API system. Give them a free account in the same breath of them signing up to your own site. White label it, brand it and bam... watch the sales come in.

You mean sign new menbers up yourself for a free cam account like Spunky Cash does?
Or send the new member a welcome email with offer to also create a free cam account themselves?

The first is considered spam.

[arock10]

Barry wtf is up with your oddly tabbed posts

[helterskelter808]

Originally Posted by Fob

It converts bad because cams are free now....mfc, chaturbate.

The 'free' sites (which patently do convert, otherwise they wouldn't exist) appeal to a different kind of surfer.

Regular 1-1 pvt cams are like visiting a prostitute (people go for private/intimate 'sex' or even just to chat in private to a performer/'girlfriend' they like), whereas 'free' cams are like going to a strip joint (dick waving losers, literally throwing money away purely to outdo other total losers and catch the attention of the performer for half a second).

Real life strip joints haven't stopped prostitution and they never will. It won't happen online either.

And maybe the economy is dying too.

Now this, among all the simple-minded shit about piracy and free stuff, is a genuine reason why people are spending less, but some people apparently flatly refuse to accept it.

Protests, riots, revolutions, unemployment, businesses and entire countries going bankrupt, major currencies on the brink of oblivion as a result of the fucked up economy, but there is no way porn can be affected. No way. None. People are always going to spend money on porn rather than food or rent, however broke they are.

It's all the fault of piracy and 'free'. Even though both existed, online and offline, loooooong before anyone here even thought of selling shit online.

[jscott]

0:25,000 with webcams.com

[porno jew]

Originally Posted by helterskelter808

Protests, riots, revolutions, unemployment, businesses and entire countries going bankrupt, major currencies on the brink of oblivion as a result of the fucked up economy, but there is no way porn can be affected. No way. None. People are always going to spend money on porn rather than food or rent, however broke they are.

people's minds shut down when it comes to a bad economy. just watch someone when you talk about it. their eyes glaze over and minds literally shut off.

around here they come up with every possible excuse but the most basic and realistic.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by adultmobile

The main difference of cams VS normal sites, is that in normal site each guy bring same $$ like $20, so conversion ratio is same as income.
In cams, 1:100 or 1:1000 or 1:10000 means not much as who is this 1, a guy who spend $20 once in a life or $20,000 a year? Both can happen.
To make stats on cams need send lots traffic, with small traffic you can be or very lucky or very unlucky as too small sample.
So we buy those popunder and blind skimmed from trashiest tube's and cj's (and chocker traffic yes LOL) and some time we fish the guy who spend $5000 a month, there into the trash, believe it or not. This pay back the 1:10,000 conversion - but had to buy few million hits before to trap the whale, if we stopped a moment before we was in loss.
And this is why we buy spots and traffic in k's rather than rely so much into affiliates - if we get the big guy from our own traffic ads we keep his sales, a rev share of a $50,000 a year whale would be painful. In fact we not hasve rev share at all, we give pps only.
So I think who have lots sale (as big tubes) can make good $$ in cams due to volume it contains the whales, the big sites all sell spots to streamate or jasmin etc. no one miss to put the cams. The smaller traffic guys need too much luck or time to fish the big guys.
Of course there's cam specific traffic sources with high conv ratio but is small total traffic and people who have such, is like member areas traffic it is so nice but it is so few finally.

The problem is how many of these cam sponsors do you honestly think will allow some small affiliate sending 10 uniques a day to get 20% for life from some whale who spends $20,000 a year for five years? I'm sure it happens at times and I'm sure many programs say they will pay but let's be real.

I remember many years ago a certain very popular cam company who was most famous for their revshare program had a rep who once made a comment like "Affiliates don't deserve to keep getting credit for rebills if they stop sending traffic." on a different webmaster forum. Guess what? Reps don't pick up attitudes like that from nowhere. They often come either from other reps or upper management.

[porno jew]

Originally Posted by jscott

0:25,000 with webcams.com

take a look at their pricing, membership options and join page from a surfers perspective and you will understand why. a complete mess.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by jscott

0:25,000 with webcams.com

Owned by Manwin.

[porno jew]

has nothing to do with manwin, their site is a mess, always was.

[signupdamnit]

Just letting him know in case he didn't know already.

[porno jew]

manwin doesn't even use webcams.com as white label on their tubes. that says something.

[jscott]

And, thanks guys, I had no idea about both, messy pricing and manwin owned

All my webcams adverts will be replaced within couple hours

[adultmobile]

Some interesting posts (and even Paul Markham there!? lol).
My 2 cents on following:

Fob: "It converts bad because cams are free now....mfc, chaturbate. "
And helterskelter808: "The 'free' sites [] appeal to a different kind of surfer. [] Regular 1-1 pvt cams..."

helterskelter808 is right. We launched our free cam site tubecamgirl.com and it did NOT reduced the private chats at chatgf.com. Believe it or not. Also since the girl play for free, we get traffic also for free (altough we have to buy traffic to ignite the site), an some of them then signup chatgf for ppv. Yes they see a girl play for free an hour in tubecamgirl, THEN, will pay $3 a minute to talk her clothed in private. This is not intuitive but that's what we see. Plus some guys are sending tips to the girls in tubecam of course - altough not yet in $1000 pieces as some crazy one drops in myfreecams top girls rooms. But that would be just a matter of time and volume to happen. Simply if you have 1000 guys in a room and 10-15 of them sending tips, they will want to show who is the king and this is why we have put a crown icon to the (1) top tipper in userlist - it works.
If you have a room with same girl playing the same but few guys and no one sending a tip, then the same guy who dropped $1000 tip in previous scenario, will not tip as he feels idiot instead of a king.

signupdamnit: "how many of these cam sponsors do you think will allow some small affiliate to get 20% for life from some whale who spends $20,000 a year for five years"

We never gave rev share so had not the dilemma. It is probable that some cam program in some case shaved, but, I also heard of webmasters who enjoyed year(s) of revshare from whales so I think there is less shaving then someone thinks. I mean even if no one shaved ever, you had the same or 95% the same conversion issue we discuss about.

Paul Markham: "Yes talk to the man who advertises on a piracy forum. "

Paul, I come from content production so I sure hate who does money from stolen content. I was producing pics and vids solo girls, russian studios st.peterburg and novosibirks, good old times pre-2004 - then after 2004 I converted studios in to cam ones - then setup cam sites for others, then for own etc.
Said that, ACCIDENTALLY the advertising networks put my ads (or redirected skimmed blind cj) from dvdrip and fill site tip (file sonic and such) pages. And, I got PAYING customers from there, believe it or not.

Currently, since the authorized sample clips are now 10+ minutes and decent quality, and infinite amount to search and watch (I repeat: even if just browsing the affiliate clips, no more long only 2 minutes!), the result it seems that cj redirect or banners in these sites have the same (or worst now?) conversion ratio then the piratebay or xxx dvd/site-rip forums, at least for CAMS. I am not saying this is good or bad, I simply see it in conversion ratios.