Originally Posted by tony286

It's because they want them to stay on the tube. Why are movie trailers max 2 mins 30 secs (we wont get into a movie cost alot more to make than a porn)because they want to go somewhere else, the movie theater to see the movie. When the old ceo of manwin was interviewed for an article he said they found under 5 mins they went to the producers site over 5 mins they stayed on the tube.

Originally Posted by SplatterMaster

I bet you could get rid of the beginning and middle and just leave the last minute or 2 of the money shot. I bet most people go straight there anyways. Tube sites are the best place to see 20 cum shots in 20 minutes.

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks

I never understood anyways why men like to see other men shooting a load...
cum shot is so overated.... who wants to see that disgusting shit? Silent faggots...

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks

I never understood anyways why men like to see other men shooting a load...
cum shot is so overated.... who wants to see that disgusting shit? Silent faggots...

Originally Posted by tony286

It's because they want them to stay on the tube. Why are movie trailers max 2 mins 30 secs (we wont get into a movie cost alot more to make than a porn)because they want to go somewhere else, the movie theater to see the movie. When the old ceo of manwin was interviewed for an article he said they found under 5 mins they went to the producers site over 5 mins they stayed on the tube.

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

After some research I believe I located the exact quote for this in case anyone is interested.



http://nymag.com/nymag/features/70985/index5.html

Of course Google helped make it worse. Google favors longer videos so the tubes want longer videos. Google's algorithm actually is somewhat foolish. For example a trick I learned (primarily for mainstream) is to put the content the user really wants to see more towards the end. Google will think the video is better for this reason alone because the time on the page will be greater as the average surfer will stick around. It's silly though because in actuality it isn't any better. We just made the surfer wait to find what they really wanted. We could even be showing ads at first and Google's mindless algorithms would likely see this as "better".

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

But, as has been stated, you can jump to the cumshot anyway. I never, ever, EVER spend 10-12 minutes watching a porn clip. Never. Not even my own I edit for tubes. I have WAY too many things to do than sit there and watch every second. Google must know this?

Besides, once the cock is hard, and there's no one around, you want to CUM ASAP, not tease yourself or make it last longer. Maybe this is why so many guys have premature ejaculation problems to begin with, they've trained their bodies and minds to pop in 3-5 minutes. LOL

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

That's true but not all surfer will do that or even know how. So if 30% don't skip ahead you've still altered the metrics significantly in your favor.

Hint: try it for yourself on youtube. I'm saying this from experience.

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

So the first x number of minutes is dross? I tried this a couple years back and got many videos rejected. I put out a 10 min video with the first 9 mins being people talking with clothes on. LOL Then wham cut to the pop shot. Tubes didn't like that shit. :D

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Youtube doesn't care about that....but obviously porn is not a realistic option there.

The tubes really should be more accommodating to the content owners rather than dictate those things. No watermarks, have to have a cumshot, no teasing for the first X minutes. Seems a bit ridiculous but I guess it's your money and decision. <shrug>

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

At this point I don't think the tubes will be anymore flexible the they have been. For the, they have proved their business model and I understand where they are coming from. So maybe it's time to start a different kind of tube. One whose focus is on content partners/providers and not ad sales, cams or dick pills.

Originally Posted by Squirtit

A few weeks back I had a really high traffic spike, and correlating sales spike. I checked my stats and it was pornhub. I go on their front page and see two videos from my new site featured on the front page. Tens of thousands of views and tons of likes and favorites. I ride it out for a few days until the sales die down then DMCA them via my PornGuardian account.

A few days later I decide to try and work with Pornhub and signup to be a content partner. I hear back a day or so later that they love my content (surprise), it would be a great fit etc. They tell me to create an account under my site name. I did. Then they said signup with trafficjunky, I did. Then they said send us banners in xyz size etc. etc. I reply back no problem just sign up for my affiliate program and gave them a link. Never heard back. Sent a couple follow ups, never heard back.

So yeah the tube got a couple of my videos with cumshots for a week, I got some sales. They lost my videos and never hit me back to continue making money with me. Doesn't make any sense. Counter productive.

Originally Posted by Ramster

You're theory of the "tubes will run out of content" doesn't totally apply. There may come a time when tubes produce their own content themselves. They make a hell of a lot more than most paysites do so it's not like they can't afford to. Now, can they afford to shoot enough to update 20-50 videos a day? Likely not or if they do they won't want to spend that much. But remember after user uploads weren't enough to quench the thirst of surfers And they wanted to create an HD section they could charge for, they dropped millions on complete DVD libraries from many content sellers like it was nothing.

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Oh definitely, I agree with you. I think there's MORE than enough content out there, even if nothing ever gets shot again. There's no way someone can view all the porn that has been produced in a lifetime. And yes, tubes will become de facto producers. They already have Brazzers etc and do that now.

But again, the tubes focus is not creativity, user experience or content producers. It's fast cash from ads, cams, etc.

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

People get sick of their shit. The more they try to control production, the more they'll make themselves vulnerable to disruption. Better to allow partnerships and let creative people work and survive.

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Yeah but they can pay creative people, producers, production houses, etc. It's really no differant than what paysites used to do.

How ironic.

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

I just don't agree. The most disciplined, creative, and therefore disruptive, people do not become employees, or at least do not stay employees.

I'm sure they could contract them, but that is a partnership, isn't it. Good people getting compensated for their work.

You're a smart guy who gets shit done; set up your thing. Let's see what can be done.

Originally Posted by Ramster

You're theory of the "tubes will run out of content" doesn't totally apply. There may come a time when tubes produce their own content themselves. They make a hell of a lot more than most paysites do so it's not like they can't afford to. Now, can they afford to shoot enough to update 20-50 videos a day? Likely not or if they do they won't want to spend that much. But remember after user uploads weren't enough to quench the thirst of surfers And they wanted to create an HD section they could charge for, they dropped millions on complete DVD libraries from many content sellers like it was nothing.

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

PH has had some shakeups recently. The main point person for their CPP is gone now so others there are scrambling to fill his spot. I would keep at it. Send a couple more emails. Plus remember, it's August so many are on vacation (then there's the upcoming EU shows LOL).

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

This is nothing personal and perhaps just got lost in communication, nothing a bit of patience can't fix, these guys handle a huge amount of content partner accounts.

Originally Posted by Biggy

heh, i love when people make this analogy.

so theres 1,000,000 content producers left to submit videos, who are shooting solid, new content?

If I had to guess, when you start getting to the #20, if you could even get that high, there's not much left after that. maybe you could get above that # if you take the affiliates submitting from the handful of quality producers left which falsely compounds the # of good content producers. You'd be really hard pressed to get above 50 everything included. I've been doing this since 1998 and I don't think right now I could come up with more than 20 if I spat out all the major companies on the web + DVD producers left that shoot consistently. Is Pimproll still shooting content?

The tubes have successfully cannibalized a TON of content producers to the point where there is only a handful left. The amount of new content being shot is at all time lows, does anyone really dispute this? But the one reason people want to come to the tubes is content. It's a catch 22. This is something that tubes should think about in their treatment of content partners, which is really the entire concept of the OP's post.

Originally Posted by Squirtit

Don't fall for it

Let's not forget the majority of tubes now CHARGE for HD versions of promo content. So they are getting paid for ads, and HD versions of your video with cumshot. And what do you get? Is their an affiliate program for content producers when someone clicks on one of your promo videos and decides to become a member of the tube because of your content? No

.

Originally Posted by czarina

Sorry to bring back an old thread.
I 200% agree with The Porn Nerd. That's why here at AmateurDough, we have stopped submitting videos to the major tubes. There's no way we were going to give away 6 minute clips with cumshots of our videos.
It was a scary decision since we were making good money with some of the tubes.
Funny thing is, our sales have gone up since we made that decision.

Originally Posted by czarina

Sorry to bring back an old thread.
I 200% agree with The Porn Nerd. That's why here at AmateurDough, we have stopped submitting videos to the major tubes. There's no way we were going to give away 6 minute clips with cumshots of our videos.
It was a scary decision since we were making good money with some of the tubes.
Funny thing is, our sales have gone up since we made that decision.

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Tubes can be effective if you view them as pre-sells for your content. Of course, your Tours must be optimized for tube traffic and you need to know how to lure the customers to your site with editing, graphics, etc.

But again I ask: if not tubes where does the traffic come from? TGPs, MGPs, SEO, free sites, affiliates, blogs - none of this will make up for tube traffic in mass. I wish this weren't the case but it is.

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Of course, your Tours must be optimized for tube traffic.

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks

For who will it be a watershed problem? For the tubes? Yes it's true that less and less new porn is produced everyday... Free porn will end one day... it is an end-conclusion, period. Producers need to monatize their content... if that's not anymore possible to a point it's worth investing they will simply stop producing. It allready happend the last 10 years... more and more producers closed their doors.

Selling porn is an increasingly dying bizz-model. That means that the tube-model is also a dying bizz-model Porn is not used anymore to sell porn but to sell ads. That bizz-model only works when the product you want to sell those ads with is very cheap or free to get... tadaaa... It's called parasiting... and every parasite knows that it will die when it's host eventualy dies from all the blood sucking. I highly doubt it's doable to produce content (with all it's costs) for the purpose of using that content to sell ads. Even with a shitload of traffic... you still need a shitload of new content to keep all visitors happy. Without enough new content people will lose their interest in tubes. If you have a paysite and you stop updating people will simply lose interest and stop coming back, simple. It works the same for the tubes.

The day that tube visitors start complaining about the lack of fresh content will be the day i'll drink a beer, smile and tell em to go fuck themselfs. What do people expect? The public is made of fucking idiots! Nothing is for fucking free. In the end someone has to pay for it... No one is going to invest in something that will not pay back. This is not sustainable... it's all a matter of time.

So... this industry is eating itself till there is nothing left. And then it can start all over again...

I hear a lot of people saying they need the traffic from the tubes....
Well... i started uploading last week to some tubes to see. For example one tube with a global 56 alexa rank. I had 4 trailers on their front page for half a day and they are still on page 1 on their niche-page now. They have high likes... 2 of them 100% likes and 2 of them almost 100% likes. Just checking my stats: 3 hits to my site from them... wtf...

I can't look into other peoples stats but in my reality it's like... wtf do you mean with tube-TRAFFIC? There is NO tube traffic...

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Tubes can be effective if you view them as pre-sells for your content. Of course, your Tours must be optimized for tube traffic and you need to know how to lure the customers to your site with editing, graphics, etc.

But again I ask: if not tubes where does the traffic come from? TGPs, MGPs, SEO, free sites, affiliates, blogs - none of this will make up for tube traffic in mass. I wish this weren't the case but it is.

Originally Posted by Tubevideditor

Do you have any examples of tube optimized paysite(s)?

Originally Posted by Robbie

I've seen this statement a few times.

Call me crazy...but if almost ALL the traffic is at tubes now. Then that means it's just normal people who make up the "tube traffic". So it's just "normal traffic" if it's the majority of people. Not some kind of magic traffic that can only be converted by a secret handshake or some nonsense they tell us.

So how do you "optimize" and make "special" a tour since the traffic is actually just the normal people who would be the same exact ones coming from all the other traffic sources in the past?

I think it's a line used by guys who own tubes to convince you that somehow...if you only gave them full scenes with cumshots and if you only knew the secret magical mystery way to "optimize" your tour for "tube traffic" that THEN you would be making great sales.

But until that time...please keep giving away all your content so that the huge money they are making selling ads for the traffic that your content helps to draw keeps flowing.

That's my business opinion on that situation. It's smart on their part. And it hurts you and me. Even if you take all of your content off of their tubes...the fact that there is so much free content there already hurts all sales.

Originally Posted by nm_

Just curious, how much tube traffic are you getting per day from tubes specifically? What's the conversion like too 1:500, 1:1000???

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

Prn Nrd,

I will suggest to you right now the steps to take. Talking is a shitload easier than doing. So I'm doing the easy part and you'd be doing the hard part.

Plan 1:

1. Partner with PR. Rebrand, or popularize their content producer partner tube
2. Publish honest, RT sales and traffic stats to all initial producer members, invite only
3. Share every fucking revenue stream, not one or two, every. That way your partners are actually partners and they'll jump in to optimize where they can.
4. Develop the best fraud and chargeback protection, as well as takedown, this is worth paying for
5. Ask for content that drives certain revenue streams; this is where the sharing all revenue will help you. 12 with pop drives traffic; 3 with teaser drives joins; Softcore might allow for new classes of advertisers, WHICH IS A GOAL WE ALL SHOULD SHARE, etc
6. Stats, stats, stats - implement the best surfer tracking tools
7. Allow for pure hosted, pure affiliate, and hybrid partners.
8. Use gaming psychology on surfers, with rep, scores, achievements, etc, and surfer to producer rewards for top notch content
9. Dispatch the smartest guy in your operation to sell to new add accounts
10. Reward producers who grow revenue
11. Make settlements quick, fair, and transparent.
12. Implement bitcoin (or some better designed digital currency) micropayments

Plan 2:

1. Gather a group of interested producers and developers, develop a tube.
2-12. As above

For a few months, maybe 6, you'll get slow traffic, as frustrated surfers link in and affiliates test their models. Then, you'll start being competitive.

Originally Posted by Robbie

From what you wrote TPN...you would simply link straight to the join page and bypass the entire tour.
That would be about the crux of the "optimization".

Other than that...every tour of every site that is worth it's salt is already "optimized". Especially since the majority of sites are now using one of the widely distributed CMS to run the site.
A tweak here and a tweak there...but otherwise all the same general idea.

I spent some time 2 weeks ago with one of the...if not THE...top guy in advertising in the world. He showed me exactly what real research into the human brain shows and is being used by advertisers now.
And he showed me how the human brain is wired and why the most successful Super Bowl ads clock in at exactly 30 seconds. Anything more than 30 seconds and a different part of the brain kicks in and begins to question the ad.

Think about that. Do some research. You'll quickly see that people putting up those long clips (and yes, I've tried it too including cumshots...and of course it didn't work) are doing the exact OPPOSITE of what can motivate a person to buy a membership.

It's interesting stuff. And once you get up to speed on the research, you'll realize what these tube site owners are obviously doing to everyone by wanting these longer clips.

Reality is that what they REALLY want is to keep a surfer on their site for longer periods of time.
Time spent on the site for each surfer is a BIG way that Google determines site rank for keywords. It shows that "yes" the site MUST be relevant to the search because surfers are spending 10 minutes on the site instead of one minute.

Thus, they have millions of surfers spending lots of time on the site.
That is why they rank above everyone else for search engine traffic. And everyday that goes by just solidifies their ranking on everything.

Anyway. Good luck to everyone. You're gonna need it.

Originally Posted by Robbie

From what you wrote TPN...you would simply link straight to the join page and bypass the entire tour.
That would be about the crux of the "optimization".

Other than that...every tour of every site that is worth it's salt is already "optimized". Especially since the majority of sites are now using one of the widely distributed CMS to run the site.
A tweak here and a tweak there...but otherwise all the same general idea.

I spent some time 2 weeks ago with one of the...if not THE...top guy in advertising in the world. He showed me exactly what real research into the human brain shows and is being used by advertisers now.
And he showed me how the human brain is wired and why the most successful Super Bowl ads clock in at exactly 30 seconds. Anything more than 30 seconds and a different part of the brain kicks in and begins to question the ad.

Think about that. Do some research. You'll quickly see that people putting up those long clips (and yes, I've tried it too including cumshots...and of course it didn't work) are doing the exact OPPOSITE of what can motivate a person to buy a membership.

It's interesting stuff. And once you get up to speed on the research, you'll realize what these tube site owners are obviously doing to everyone by wanting these longer clips.

Reality is that what they REALLY want is to keep a surfer on their site for longer periods of time.
Time spent on the site for each surfer is a BIG way that Google determines site rank for keywords. It shows that "yes" the site MUST be relevant to the search because surfers are spending 10 minutes on the site instead of one minute.

Thus, they have millions of surfers spending lots of time on the site.
That is why they rank above everyone else for search engine traffic. And everyday that goes by just solidifies their ranking on everything.

Anyway. Good luck to everyone. You're gonna need it.

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Robbie, you are in a unique position with CM. Meaning, you have a fully active partner in her own site, someone who Members can communicate with and know who they are joining. But what if you don't run a solo site with a model willing to do social media, interact with Members, etc? Then what?

Originally Posted by BellaSinns

When a guy cums... he's done. Any stripper / cam girl knows that.

Originally Posted by Robbie

You're now discussing retention. That's the magic of interactivity.

I'm talking about your original post and making sales. Specifically that the tube sites are wanting long clips with cumshots and trying to convince you it's in your best interest.

Scientific research shows (and the biggest ad agencies in the world are using it) that the human brain doesn't work like that if you are trying to sell someone something.

The only person those long clips and cumshots benefit are the tube site owner. Why else would they basically be demanding it of you? What do they care if you make sales or not (they don't).
The only thing they care about is eyes on their site. And time spent on their sites.
That equals high search engine relevancy and higher rates they can charge for advertising.

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

I think its time for site owners and content producers to take our traffic back.

Some ideas:
Offer shorter membership packages.

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

Offer more content for loyal members staying longer.

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

Offer niche specific only packages.

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

Offer streaming only vs downloading and streaming.

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Tubes can be effective if you view them as pre-sells for your content. Of course, your Tours must be optimized for tube traffic and you need to know how to lure the customers to your site with editing, graphics, etc.

But again I ask: if not tubes where does the traffic come from? TGPs, MGPs, SEO, free sites, affiliates, blogs - none of this will make up for tube traffic in mass. I wish this weren't the case but it is.

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Robbie, you are in a unique position with CM. Meaning, you have a fully active partner in her own site, someone who Members can communicate with and know who they are joining. But what if you don't run a solo site with a model willing to do social media, interact with Members, etc? Then what?

Originally Posted by Robbie

Surprisingly...the research that is being used by major ad agencies indicates that anything over 30 SECONDS will LOSE the sale instead of make it.

Originally Posted by SplatterMaster

I bet you could get rid of the beginning and middle and just leave the last minute or 2 of the money shot. I bet most people go straight there anyways. Tube sites are the best place to see 20 cum shots in 20 minutes.