how come huge aff programs like FTVGirls have default CCBill setups?

[gleem]

How come there are a bunch of larger sponsors that use the crappy default CCBill setup with no cascades, and no further stats than CCbill's default setup?

Programs like FTVcash, Met-Art, Femjoy, Hegre, and a bunch of other larger programs and sites?

They don't give a shit about cascading and gaining 10 - 20% more sales by using more than CCBill for billing? They don't give a crap that CCBill's default setup for affiliates suck?

Doesn't make sense.

[pornpf69]

if they cascade they mighjt lose lots of people who promote them as secondary sponsor....simply because they are no longer a CCbill sponsor....

[CashLikeWhoa_Mike]

if it ain't broke don't fix it.

FTV cash kicks ass and converts. A consistent performer for years.

Some of the most lucrative programs on the net have ccbill only and are quietly making a fortune and paying strong payouts to their affiliates every week.

Bigger isn't always better, and a lot of bells and whistles like cascades, nats etc. don't always equal more sales

[gleem]

Originally Posted by CashLikeWhoa_Mike

if it ain't broke don't fix it.



Bigger isn't always better, and a lot of bells and whistles like cascades, nats etc. don't always equal more sales

how can you say that? On my program, if CCBill rejects the surfer, it goes to the next biller and 10 -20% of the time it converts to a sale.

So by using ccbill only if they do $1million a month in sales, they are automatically losing $100k - $200k by not having a second biller in a cascade.

by not having a second biller, their conversion ratios are lower, by 10-20%

wouldn't they want to announce to their affiliates:
"we added a second biller so you will see a 20% increase in your conversions and checks this month!"

adding a cascade isn't complicated. seems retarded to me.

[gleem]

For example:

"Instead of giving out a new car at internext, or having a $2k contest on GFY, we are spening that money to add a cascade script and some decent affiliate stats and in the end increase all your sales by 20%!!"

[tranza]

Originally Posted by CashLikeWhoa_Mike

if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I can't believe there's still some people in this business that think like that.

[BVF]

Originally Posted by tranza

I can't believe there's still some people in this business that think like that.

People in EVERY business think like that...You find a formula that works and repeat the process.

[gleem]

Originally Posted by BVF

People in EVERY business think like that...You find a formula that works and repeat the process.

yes, but how can you break anything by adding a cascade?

that like a guy with a shop in the stripmall, and the 30 other stores there say to you

"hey we put in a 100 watt bulb in the store instead of the 75 watt bulb and ever since then sales are up 20%"

and you are going to say "I'm not doing that cause I don't want to break my biz model"

how does not having a cascade have anything to do with a "biz model"??

retarded... just retarded.

[BVF]

Originally Posted by gleem

yes, but how can you break anything by adding a cascade?

Unless you're letting the individual processors cut the checks, then you're breaking your business model by now having to cut your own checks which some people don't want to be bothered with doing.

There's plenty of other reasons adding a cascade could add extra costs, such as having to do extra accounting, send out w9's, etc.......What's great about the business world is that you have choices on whom to promote and do business with, OR you could create your own "store" and do business your own way.

[justsexxx]

I can't speak for them. But an increase of 20% is simply not true...We run a program(NATS) and I can honestly say that there IS an increase(ppl who join on the 2nd processor) but ppl who are rejected, are often not accepted on the 2nd biller either....

But yeah, when programs do 1M a month, even 1% is a lot

Maybe they don't like the fact that NATS/MPA whoever has access to the stats, or at least they have the impresssion someone can snoop around...

[gleem]

Originally Posted by BVF

Unless you're letting the individual processors cut the checks, then you're breaking your business model by now having to cut your own checks which some people don't want to be bothered with doing.

There's plenty of other reasons adding a cascade could add extra costs, such as having to do extra accounting, send out w9's, etc.......What's great about the business world is that you have choices on whom to promote and do business with, OR you could create your own "store" and do business your own way.

if it's forms and checks and accounting they are worried about, getting a company to do that is cheap.

I know it's their choice BVF, just seems silly.

[gleem]

Originally Posted by justsexxx

But yeah, when programs do 1M a month, even 1% is a lot

Maybe they don't like the fact that NATS/MPA whoever has access to the stats, or at least they have the impresssion someone can snoop around...

yes, even 1% is alot.

these programs are big enough they should have their own custom setup anyways, even if they used NATS/MPA they should purchase it out right, it's less than $20k which is nothing for em.

I remember reading a thready by Twistys on this topic, should go dig it up.

[corvette]

Some programs convert a lot better than others, and there are many factors to do with cascade

Perhaps for some programs it is 20% or more, but for others its significantly lower. The consumer has to first get declined once, twice or more (some programs make the consumer get declined 5 or more times before they get the option of another billing company, this is NOT unusual), then the consumer has to wait at the mid-page before they get redirected to the secondary/tertiary processor, then when they get to that signup page, they have to enter the cc#, exp date, cvv2, etc….then after that, the chances are decent that the secondary will decline them for a similar reason that the first did

Then the concern is that if you are sending all of your declines to processor X, your cb rate will generally be higher at that processor, so do you have to worry about risk issues, up to and including getting TMF’ed…

different things work for different people

[corvette]

let me say that FTV girls know what they are doing

[gleem]

Originally Posted by corvette

Then the concern is that if you are sending all of your declines to processor X, your cb rate will generally be higher at that processor, so do you have to worry about risk issues, up to and including getting TMF?ed?

different things work for different people

so you are saying that adding a second biller is bad cause you can get TMF'ed?? lol.

and yes, even with all the shit surfers go through to get to a second processor, they still signup and I can tell you from experience that I don't get any higer CB rates at my 2nd biller in my cascade than the one in the first slot.

[corvette]

Originally Posted by gleem

so you are saying that adding a second biller is bad cause you can get TMF'ed?? lol.

and yes, even with all the shit surfers go through to get to a second processor, they still signup and I can tell you from experience that I don't get any higer CB rates at my 2nd biller in my cascade than the one in the first slot.

nope, but has it been a concern for at least some businesses? Absolutely, without a doubt

im saying that its not all cut and dry, different things work for different businesses, ftv girls obviously made SOME good decisions to get where they are?and in many cases, if you sit down with somebody and talk to them, then you can see where they are coming from and how they came up with the decisions that they did?which may have been different conclusions than you and I would have come to, but people are different, doesnt mean they are right or wrong one way or another

[gleem]

I think it's just that the bigger guys still on no cascade with the crappy default CCBill affiliate setup just don't care, they are content, and their attitude is

"we are making good money, we don't care to see if we can make more with different billers, if you don't like our setup go somewhere else, we have enough affiliates"

[corvette]

Originally Posted by gleem

I think it's just that the bigger guys still on no cascade with the crappy default CCBill affiliate setup just don't care, they are content, and their attitude is

"we are making good money, we don't care to see if we can make more with different billers, if you don't like our setup go somewhere else, we have enough affiliates"

Its very rare to see people leave money on the table without a reason, in fact, for many years one of the biggest programs on the net did not have a secondary processor, and when I asked him why, he said he thought about it and gave a handful of reasons why he decided to not have one?I did not think any of the reasons were particularly great, but who am I to argue about business with somebody that has a stable full of Ferraris? If it makes him sleep better at night, how can you argue?

[Shap]

Originally Posted by corvette

Its very rare to see people leave money on the table without a reason, in fact, for many years one of the biggest programs on the net did not have a secondary processor, and when I asked him why, he said he thought about it and gave a handful of reasons why he decided to not have one?I did not think any of the reasons were particularly great, but who am I to argue about business with somebody that has a stable full of Ferraris? If it makes him sleep better at night, how can you argue?

I strongly disagree with this. Our industry has a history of being very compliant. You have a lot of young people making more money than they've ever made before and become very comfortable with it. As a result they worry about spending the money and enjoying it. For a lot of successful companies that run with a small staff it becomes a situation where they aren't interested in that extra 1% if it means them working 2 hours to get it.

[Shap]

Gleem here is the post i made.
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=558484

[uno]

It's really hard to tell someone like nubiles or ftv that they could be doing better when they are already doing astronomically well. They are happy with their system, the trust it, and it works for them.

[datatank]

Out of all the programs I am sending traffic to the one that is doing the most per raw click is a ccbill only program

[EscortBiz]

We have been using ccbill only for many years, people forget a few things just like there are tons of guys who are only interested in promoting nats programs there are many solid guys who will not promote sites (especially the big revshare promoters) that dont use a biller directly meaning they want the tracking and payouts to come from a reliable third party.

Now that im getting ready to take my program to a new level and doing PPS a NATS style system is a must but we are going to give the affiliates a choice to use ccbill links directly.

And I wish backup would mean 20% not even close does it mean extra joins hell yeah maybe 1% and thats a maybe and same goes to another program that I know of, but 1% is money too.

[Shap]

One reason cascading is low for people using CCBILL as a primary is because ccbill does not allow it's customers cascade. When a client is denied they get locked into the ccbill join page. You can't offer them any other options.

[gleem]

Originally Posted by shap

I strongly disagree with this. Our industry has a history of being very compliant. You have a lot of young people making more money than they've ever made before and become very comfortable with it. As a result they worry about spending the money and enjoying it. For a lot of successful companies that run with a small staff it becomes a situation where they aren't interested in that extra 1% if it means them working 2 hours to get it.

exactly my thought, except it blows my mind that someone doing any decent amount of joins wouldn't spend a couple hours or a couple grand to add a cascade to get that extra %.

[corvette]

Originally Posted by shap

One reason cascading is low for people using CCBILL as a primary is because ccbill does not allow it's customers cascade. When a client is denied they get locked into the ccbill join page. You can't offer them any other options.

shap, with all due respect, this is not true. We have offered our clients a customizable decline url for at least 6-7+ years, plus they can customize the # of decline attempts and similar settings

its my understanding that epoch offers similar options

[gleem]

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

We have been using ccbill only for many years, people forget a few things just like there are tons of guys who are only interested in promoting nats programs there are many solid guys who will not promote sites (especially the big revshare promoters) that dont use a biller directly meaning they want the tracking and payouts to come from a reliable third party.

Now that im getting ready to take my program to a new level and doing PPS a NATS style system is a must but we are going to give the affiliates a choice to use ccbill links directly.

And I wish backup would mean 20% not even close does it mean extra joins hell yeah maybe 1% and thats a maybe and same goes to another program that I know of, but 1% is money too.

I dunno about you guys, but I'm getting a little over 11% at my 2nd biller on my cascade, so it's big loot for me. even if it was .5% it was worth the hour of work it took to set it up.


and shaving on CCBill straightup setup is done daily, if there are affiliates that don't realize this I feel bad for em.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by corvette

shap, with all due respect, this is not true. We have offered our clients a customizable decline url for at least 6-7+ years, plus they can customize the # of decline attempts and similar settings

its my understanding that epoch offers similar options

Epoch's works. Ccbill's doesn't. We've run extensive tests on this.

My staff was in contact with Ccbill staff in the past few weeks regarding this. If you want i have no problem illustrating to you how i feel the ccbill cascading/decline system does not work.

[Mark_E4A]

we started with just ccbill ( did GREAT )
bought into the big hype about nats and 20% more sales ( sales went way down )
got ride of nats ( sales started to go up again )

CCBILL ROCKS

[Shap]

Originally Posted by gleem

exactly my thought, except it blows my mind that someone doing any decent amount of joins wouldn't spend a couple hours or a couple grand to add a cascade to get that extra %.

To a young owner with only a few staff on hand who is making $250,000 profit a month that extra % isn't worth his time. I agree 100% that it isn't a wise business decision. However you are talking to people that never dreamed of making $250k a year. Now they make it a month. Throwing away 10k a month in extra sales is nothing to them. The same way blowing 10k on some meaningless toy is nothing.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Mark_E4A

we started with just ccbill ( did GREAT )
bought into the big hype about nats and 20% more sales ( sales went way down )
got ride of nats ( sales started to go up again )

CCBILL ROCKS

You probably chose the wrong program to use. I've never used nats so I can't comment on it. I know our experience was the opposite with other programs.

[corvette]

Originally Posted by shap

Epoch's works. Ccbill's doesn't. We've run extensive tests on this.

My staff was in contact with Ccbill staff in the past few weeks regarding this. If you want i have no problem illustrating to you how i feel the ccbill cascading/decline system does not work.

please do, i would be very interested in this information, thanks in advance

[email protected] or however you prefer

[Shap]

Originally Posted by corvette

shap, with all due respect, this is not true. We have offered our clients a customizable decline url for at least 6-7+ years, plus they can customize the # of decline attempts and similar settings

its my understanding that epoch offers similar options

Btw Mark I realize you obviously feel very confident that i'm wrong. Maybe i am. If so could you have one of your staff please email me instructions on how to customize our decline page.

Our current setup with ccbill (the default decline setup ccbill offers) it goes thru large number of attempts and locks the customer on a ccbill page without allowing us to send to another option. As a result most users would get annoyed and leave. Paycom allows us to control the decline as soon as it is declined. Ccbill forces the customer to try with ccbill 5+ times before sending us back the attempt. Usually the user gets blocked by ccbill before then which results in us never getting the decline. Try your system out and you'll see i'm 100% right.

[EscortBiz]

Originally Posted by gleem

I dunno about you guys, but I'm getting a little over 11% at my 2nd biller on my cascade, so it's big loot for me. even if it was .5% it was worth the hour of work it took to set it up.


and shaving on CCBill straightup setup is done daily, if there are affiliates that don't realize this I feel bad for em.

shaving on ccbill oh please man now thats what i call talking right out of your fucking ass

[rowan]

Originally Posted by gleem

if it's forms and checks and accounting they are worried about, getting a company to do that is cheap.

I know it's their choice BVF, just seems silly.

Two things that don't seem to have been mentioned here, from the affiliate POV:

1) With ccbill doing the checks you can have an aggregate payout that covers all your accounts. If you spread your traffic around to several NATS/MPA sponsors then it could be months between receiving checks from a particular sponsor.

2) Trust. I know ccbill is going to pay me. I don't know that company XYZ is going to pay me.

[gleem]

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

shaving on ccbill oh please man now thats what i call talking right out of your fucking ass

yeah? how many using ccbill's decline option payout on the second biller?

[EscortBiz]

Originally Posted by shap

One reason cascading is low for people using CCBILL as a primary is because ccbill does not allow it's customers cascade. When a client is denied they get locked into the ccbill join page. You can't offer them any other options.

you have to set it to the amount of retries

[gleem]

Originally Posted by rowan

Two things that don't seem to have been mentioned here, from the affiliate POV:

1) With ccbill doing the checks you can have an aggregate payout that covers all your accounts. If you spread your traffic around to several NATS/MPA sponsors then it could be months between receiving checks from a particular sponsor.

huh? With CCbill you get 500 programs in there, and you have no easy way to see the conversion ratios at each one.

why would there be several months between receiving check from a sponsor?

[Shap]

Originally Posted by corvette

please do, i would be very interested in this information, thanks in advance

[email protected] or however you prefer

btw are you in stand-in? We tried to test the decline process with bs info and it got accepted.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

you have to set it to the amount of retries

I wish they would have told us this LOL i wouldn't have been posting this here. researching it now ;)

[EscortBiz]

Originally Posted by gleem

yeah? how many using ccbill's decline option payout on the second biller?

we designed our own custom cascading system a while ago

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=308821

affiliates saw first hand how few signups that are declined by primary go thru the secondary.

But after all is said and done there is no way to make everyone happy, there are positives and neg, with everything

[Mark_E4A]

Originally Posted by rowan

Two things that don't seem to have been mentioned here, from the affiliate POV:

1) With ccbill doing the checks you can have an aggregate payout that covers all your accounts. If you spread your traffic around to several NATS/MPA sponsors then it could be months between receiving checks from a particular sponsor.

2) Trust. I know ccbill is going to pay me. I don't know that company XYZ is going to pay me.

CCBill has been by far the strongest.
Not saying anything bad about the latest billers, but from going back 7 years to now, ccbill has been there and solid.

[rowan]

Originally Posted by gleem

huh? With CCbill you get 500 programs in there, and you have no easy way to see the conversion ratios at each one.

why would there be several months between receiving check from a sponsor?

If you send to 50 sponsors then - relatively speaking - sales at each individual sponsor will be infrequent. With ccbill you'll get a regular check still, with individual sponsors it could be a while between checks. (Not to mention having to track 50 stats interfaces, 50 payouts, deposit 50 checks etc)

[Mark_E4A]

Originally Posted by gleem

why would there be several months between receiving check from a sponsor?

the time can very, but with each program you usually have to hit a certain min.. and if you spread out to alot of programs, this can take some time for some.

with ccbill program you can merge them all together and get all the pay weekly from all the programs.

[Axeman]

Originally Posted by shap

I wish they would have told us this LOL i wouldn't have been posting this here. researching it now ;)

Doh yeah you can have them set the retries to 0 so it automatically kicks it to the decline url you have or paycom if thats your next in cascade.

Ccbill didnt seem to promote it, but NATS tells you when setting up the cascade to ask them to do it.

[Shap]

interesting i didn't know ccbill had standin mode. They always denied it. I just noticed they allowed multiple transactions over the past hour that were bogus info and now they just deleted them all. Mark does that mean ccbill is having some processing issues right now?

[Shap]

Hey guys where can i change the number of denial attempts with ccbill? I've gone thru their admin and I don't see it anywhere.

[BV]

Cascade billing is over rated and no way does it increase sales 20%, not even 1% !

[corvette]

Originally Posted by shap

interesting i didn't know ccbill had standin mode. They always denied it. I just noticed they allowed multiple transactions over the past hour that were bogus info and now they just deleted them all. Mark does that mean ccbill is having some processing issues right now?

At this point, processing is going through as normal. Stand-in processing (we call it batch-processing) happens automatically if there are issues with any point of the processing network, it happens rarely and normally for only a short period of time?this may very well have happened, shap

Processors without a stand-in/batch mode, would just be throwing transactions away, rather than giving them a chance to process

[Shap]

Originally Posted by corvette

At this point, processing is going through as normal. Stand-in processing (we call it batch-processing) happens automatically if there are issues with any point of the processing network, it happens rarely and normally for only a short period of time?this may very well have happened, shap

Processors without a stand-in/batch mode, would just be throwing transactions away, rather than giving them a chance to process

Cool. Thanks. A few months ago i remember getting an email from you guys that you hadn't used batch processing in the last 3 years. That's why i was surprised by it. Thanks.