My Turn For Epassporte Customer Screwage

[Forkbeard]

I've watched the endless parade of Epassporte customer service nightmare stories with amused horror -- like the six people who will say the same in this thread, I'd never had a problem, so who really cared?

At least I was prepared when it was my turn to be in the barrel.

So, on July 12, I get the first dreaded "Information is required" notice. Of course, the notice is in error: it recites that "the cumulative amount of funds in your account has reached USD $5,000.00", which they hadn't. But no worries, I emailed in the requested scans like a good little boy.

No response until July 18, when I get the second notice. This one promises to close my account in five business days, makes no mention of having gotten my documents.

(Aside: this is not how grownups do business. If you've got an automated system set up for sending out requests for documents, you don't let it send a second notice until you've checked for responses to the first notices.)

So I sent the email again, this time from two different email addresses, with CC to the customer service email address.

Getting no response, I sent 'em again the next day, July 19th.

And again YESTERDAY, July 23, just for fun.

And then, heck, because this train's about to hit the wall, why not? I sent 'em again this morning when I got up.

Two hours later, you guessed it: "Your account has been temporarily placed in Fund Protection Mode." "To date, we have not received this information from you. As a result, your account has been temporarily suspended."

So I called, and for a miracle I got a friendly and helpful person after a mere five minutes on hold. I told her my sorry tale and what does she do? She asks me to send my documents for a seventh time.

Causing me to sputter JUST a bit.

So then she puts me on hold and does a search and pulls up my six emails. Success! We are saved!

Only, not so much. Quote: "I'll give these to my supervisor and he'll forward them to corporate. Once they've verified your account status, you should get an email from them."

Suddenly I am not so optimistic. She assured me that I should hear more within 48 hours. Anybody want to make a wager and take that side of it?

I did ask a couple of friendly questions about the process, and was informed that they are processing emails as they come in and "right now they are up to about the end of the first week of the month."

Yup, you read that right. They are freezing accounts using an automated process that starts and finishes in twelve days. That process requests presentation of documents by email to avoid account freeze. So they are turning off accounts today that got their first notice twelve days ago -- BUT THEY HAVEN'T LOOKED AT ANY EMAILS RECEIVED IN THE LAST SEVENTEEN DAYS.

And yet, they have the gall to use a form notice that says "To date, we have not received this information from you." I guess adding "We haven't actually bothered to look in our email queue to see if you emailed us" would be a bit too brutally honest, eh?

I said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again: This is not how adults do business. This is playing at business. It's not fundamentally serious in a financial institution, J.P. Morgan, Chase Manhattan "you can trust us with your money" kind of way.

Fortunately, they've only got about five hundred dollars of my money. (It would be less, but one of my sponsors slipped in a payment just before the freeze.) That's not enough to hurt me. But if I have to spend all day Friday changing the payment details at thirty affiliate programs, let's just say that's business Epassporte won't be getting back.

Don't get me wrong, I do know that if I put in the hours and jump through all the hoops and display sufficient patience, this will all be put right in the end. But I am extremely frustrated and annoyed to be put through this. I assume it's just the normal corporate clusterfuck, but it FEELS arrogant and stupid, like nobody at Epassporte gives a shit about the customer experience.

One more time for the kids on the short bus: This is not how adults do business.

That is all.

[BoyAlley]

Initiation by fire breeder! You can join the club now.

[JakeR]

I have about 4k left in there, sent in my docs twice, no response to emails. Sent in my info the day I received notice.

[elglorioso]

epassporte sucks >

[RayBonga]

That $5k thing sucks ass, they should just drop it

[Profits of Doom]

What do you expect they are not a real company? As someone that has had some close calls with other gambling processors, just remember to keep your balance low when the gambling shit finally decides to hit the fan...

[Profits of Doom]

By the way, try contacting Michael O on ICQ, 95-431-302. He is a good guy and might be able to help you. I really hope they pay him well...

[fris]

pathetic

[DJ Jace]

and this kids, is why I never use epassporte for anything serious

and if I do get epassporte money, it LEAVES my account instantly

funny though, while paypal takes like 3-4 days to withdrawal money to my bank account, epassporte takes upwards of 2-3 weeks sometimes

[Forkbeard]

Profits, I've seen Michael O in here fighting fires before, and if he sees this and wants to help, that would be great. But as I said, I know I can get this fixed if I make enough noise and jump through enough hoops. That's not really the point. The point is that they've built a system that isn't serious. They aren't TRYING.

If they WERE trying, they'd check their email queue before sending out second and final notices. Or, at least, modify the notices to warn people that they don't process emails in a timely fashion.

Having one guy that goes around the public forums fixing things is great, but it's not a substitute for fixing their process. Their process is broken, and they show no evidence of actually giving a shit about that. (Michael is a customer service GOD, but he's largely wasted in an organization that doesn't care about fixing its customer service PROCESS.)

[Forkbeard]

Profits, I've seen Michael O in here fighting fires before, and if he sees this and wants to help, that would be great. But as I said, I know I can get this fixed if I make enough noise and jump through enough hoops. That's not really the point. The point is that they've built a system that isn't serious. They aren't TRYING.

If they WERE trying, they'd check their email queue before sending out second and final notices. Or, at least, modify the notices to warn people that they don't process emails in a timely fashion.

Having one guy that goes around the public forums fixing things is great, but it's not a substitute for fixing their process. Their process is broken, and they show no evidence of actually giving a shit about that. (Michael is a customer service GOD, but he's largely wasted in an organization that doesn't care about fixing its customer service PROCESS.)

[Michael O]

Originally Posted by Forkbeard

Profits, I've seen Michael O in here fighting fires before, and if he sees this and wants to help, that would be great. But as I said, I know I can get this fixed if I make enough noise and jump through enough hoops. That's not really the point. The point is that they've built a system that isn't serious. They aren't TRYING.

If they WERE trying, they'd check their email queue before sending out second and final notices. Or, at least, modify the notices to warn people that they don't process emails in a timely fashion.

Having one guy that goes around the public forums fixing things is great, but it's not a substitute for fixing their process. Their process is broken, and they show no evidence of actually giving a shit about that. (Michael is a customer service GOD, but he's largely wasted in an organization that doesn't care about fixing its customer service PROCESS.)

I apologize for the delay in getting your account verified.
Can you forward your UserID to me please?
[email protected] or ICQ me 95431302

Thanks
Michael

[Forkbeard]

Thanks, Michael, you have email.

[Vigilante]

Nearly the same over here.

I saw some suspicuous charges on my account a few Days ago and immedialy message sthe support department using the form on their site and with the reference given " Possible Fraud on my account / Suspicous activity"

Until today there was not a reaction to that . ( most banks would take that shit as high priority)

with Michael´s help i got explanations and everything is ok now. But thats just my luck that i got his email and icq#.

Without him beeing there and helpful all the time i would immedialy close down all of my accounts at epassporte. They are far away from beeing a secure place to safe your money.

[Forkbeard]

Yeah Vigilante, I don't use Epassporte as a place to store money, it's just a clearinghouse through which I receive tons of tiny little sponsor payments. It's probably no less risky for that purpose than my "dump all the tiny checks in pile to be deposited someday" method for paper checks, but it's still a pain when it goes south.

[Profits of Doom]

Originally Posted by Forkbeard

Profits, I've seen Michael O in here fighting fires before, and if he sees this and wants to help, that would be great. But as I said, I know I can get this fixed if I make enough noise and jump through enough hoops. That's not really the point. The point is that they've built a system that isn't serious. They aren't TRYING.

If they WERE trying, they'd check their email queue before sending out second and final notices. Or, at least, modify the notices to warn people that they don't process emails in a timely fashion.

Having one guy that goes around the public forums fixing things is great, but it's not a substitute for fixing their process. Their process is broken, and they show no evidence of actually giving a shit about that. (Michael is a customer service GOD, but he's largely wasted in an organization that doesn't care about fixing its customer service PROCESS.)

I agree completely, but I honestly don't believe they'll survive long enough to ever fix it. One day the gambling Big Brother is going to swoop in and freeze everyone's balance, and a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money...

[Forkbeard]

Eh, Prophets, I'm not so sure about that. Being a U.S. person I've pretty much ignored the gambling biz, I don't even buy the domain names (although I do have a nakedbets.com if anybody wants to buy it for a strip poker site). But Big Brother isn't quite everywhere, the U.S. is not the whole world, and Epassporte is, shall we say, a somewhat jurisdictionally ambiguous company. Knowing nothing about the extent of their gambling contacts, I can't say you're right or wrong, but I'm reserving judgment on the question.

In the long run, the U.S. attempt to treat the entire internet as its jurisdictional territory will surely fail. How soon? That's the interesting part of the question. Everybody in the international money trades (whether they touch gambling or not) is gambling on the answer to that one.

[_Richard_]

wow, that's pretty amazing considering

[SmokeyTheBear]

although this happened to me over a year ago , its good to keep a record of people having the same problem..

eventually i got my account back on but i had the same problems you did..

"send in the info" , i did, they said " send it again" i did. got phone reps , they always say " account verification has gone home for the day "

i explain i have domains expiring that need to be rebilled etc , they promise me several times " it will be backon in 48 hrs , WE PROMISE" of course it isnt..

so anyways dont think your the only one..

fortunatley michael o is a godsend and can usually help speed up the process , if it werent for him the board would have collectively shutdown epassporte long ago.

[Forkbeard]

Yeah, Smokey, that's part of what bothers me about the situation. Michael does yeoman's work for us, and that's awesome, but it tends to obscure the fact that the formal support process is completely broken. Every time Michael fixes somebody here it shuts down that complaint thread very effectively and gets it off the front page, which is good for the complainer and good for Epassporte. But after the hundredth time, shouldn't a decision-maker in that enterprise be saying "we've got to fix the broken process?"

They're not, and that fact speaks volumes.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by Forkbeard

Having one guy that goes around the public forums fixing things is great, but it's not a substitute for fixing their process.

next post

Originally Posted by Michael O

I apologize for the delay in getting your account verified.
Can you forward your UserID to me please?
[email protected] or ICQ me 95431302

Thanks
Michael

Kind of like getting a burger with pubic hair on it and complaining to the manager and he gives you another burger.

And no I'm not comparing Michael O to pubic hair. He's good people too bad the rest of Epass can't follow his lead.

[DJ Jace]

I hope to fucking god Michael O is making at LEAST $100k a year minimum, if it wasn't for him epassporte would have bit the dust LONG ago

[Gary_TLX]

I couldn't agree with you more Forkbeard. I have no idea how they can manage to do business this way and still get by. Probably not just get by, but make millions in the process. Today's world is so competitive, I'm surprised they're the only company providing these services. If any other business, especially financial ones would handle things as Epass does, they'd be out of the game in 6 months. Go figure...

[thonglife]

These assholes just charged me a $35 renewal fee on an Electron card that was lost over a year ago. Fuck Epassporte.

[Forkbeard]

The sick comedy continues.

The original verification notice demanded

1) a photocopy of a government-issued ID

and

2a) photocopies of the front and back of a debit card showing my name

OR

2b) a copy of a utility bill showing my name and address.

Now, all my utility bills go to my bill paying service in South Dakota, so I went with 1 and 2a.

So today (thanks Micheal, I know it wouldn't have happened without your intervention) I got the following:

We have received your verification documents, thank you. Unfortunately, we still require a bank statement with your name and address clearly displayed, or alternatively a copy of a utility bill (i.e. phone, water, or gas). The name and address on the statement must exactly match the name you have on file with ePassporte. Please make sure that the information you give to ePassporte is correct, if not please update. Once we've received all the documents to satisfy our security standards we will be happy to address your account issue. Thank you!

For the first time, I'm starting to lose my cool. Documents I sent them on July FREAKIN' 13TH in precise conformation to their requirements are suddenly not sufficient, and they tell me instead that they want the other alternative they offered (the utility bill) or my bank statement, which they never previously mentioned.

So I sent the bank statement. I wonder how long it will take them to find it in their email queue? And what do you suppose they will want next? A copy of my grade school report cards showing my current address?

Dudes, you need to improve your business processes.

[suesheboy]

why does anyone do business with them?

[Nikki_Licks]

I do feel for you. I had the same thing happen, with the exception, I was not notified. They had all my contact info, could have called or emailed or sent a fucking letter, but noooooooooooooooo, they just moved my money and put it in "Fund Protection Mode". It took a day's to get my money back which is plain bullshit.
They have no business transferring any person?s funds. I guess moving it to an account for protection just tells me that any accounts are not safe with epassporte.
The funny thing is not one person from epassporte would answer my legitimate questions; I had three they would not respond to.
I am glad I took my money out of there.

I hope you get this resolved. It sounds like it will be the same bullshit apology; let us look into it...blah, blah,blah.

Maybe I should post the questions again....

[Forkbeard]

Most of a business day later, no response to the latest document sent in. Surprise, surprise.

[elglorioso]

recomend other reliable system

[CDSmith]

Well would you look at that!!


Not ONE post of "I'VE never had a problem with epass"


Forkbeard's problem is THAT well-written. :D



Hard to argue when it's laid out in such detail. The only thing to add is that it's really still too bad that all of the support staff over there can't be as good as Michael O. Why that is I have no idea. In reading all the complaint threads over the past year or so it really sounds like the others are just pylons who can't help anyone with anything beyond an address change.

There's really only once solution here:


They need to CLONE MICHAEL O!

[Forkbeard]

Originally Posted by suesheboy

why does anyone do business with them?

Lack of good alternatives, mostly. When you travel a lot, hoping for paper checks to reliably catch you is risky; and foreign check charges or bank wire fees eat up too much on small payments. Tell me how else I can get paid electronically by all the little programs that send me a hundred and twenty bucks every three months?

Yeah, I know it's risky, but it's convenient as hell. I was always careful to avoid accumulating five grand, since that's the public trigger number for Epassporte's impossible-to-satisfy security review. Unfortunately, that turns out to be a bullshit number, as they hit me when I had less than a thousand in the account.

[Forkbeard]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Well would you look at that!!

Not ONE post of "I'VE never had a problem with epass"

Forkbeard's problem is THAT well-written. :D

Hard to argue when it's laid out in such detail.

Well, I be damned, you're right! We haven't seen that this time. I dunno about the writing quality, but the DETAIL is a fair cop. I think it's my blogging habits, I can't write about anything these days without turning it into a story.

[Sarah_Jayne]

Last week I had my account closed out of the blue. I didn't use it all that much but I went to login to start using it more and found it was closed (it was open a few weeks before). So, I emailed and was told that it had been closed since my virtual visa had expired in 2005. I know that I had been given a new expiry date when that one expired but nonetheless I was told that since an account was closed it couldn't be opened again and I would have to reapply.

[Forkbeard]

It almost feels like they don't *want* customers, doesn't it?

Seriously, that may be the thing. It's real easy in an organization that has security concerns for the folks tasked with security to begin treating all the customers like the ones the security folks were hired to deal with -- the crooks, scammers, etc. And when you let your security people get out of control like that, it means that your regular customers -- the ones who *aren't* a security issue -- get treated like shit whenever they come into contact with your security apparatus.

It's the same trouble that police organizations have. Cops deal with "scumbags" every day, and so if your police organization doesn't have a strong ethic of public service and frequent training in being nice to people, it will gradually drift until every police-citizen interaction is hostile and unpleasant. Frankly, I'm beginning to think that's what may have happened to Epassporte. They obviously attract an unsavory element (any online money system does) and the folks they have tasked with protecting the organization have forgotten that they have to provide decent customer service to the actual customers.

Or, anyway, that's how it feels.

[NinjaSteve]

Some of these situations seem a bit scary.

[tranza]

Cliff notes??

[Forkbeard]

Originally Posted by tranza

Cliff notes??

Learn to read?

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by Forkbeard

Learn to read?

Thank you.

[jonesonyou]

I have never done business with E Pass, And all I read is negatives...

[Forkbeard]

Seriously, just kidding about the "learn to read" crack. But the whole "that was too much to read" set of complains you see here at GFY always just boggles my mind. I'm a words guy, I read at lightspeed, it would have been faster for me to read the thread than to ask for Cliff notes.

Cliff notes: Epassporte screwed up again, and in the process, told me details making it clear that it's literally *impossible* for someone flagged for verification to avoid having their account frozen. Because Epassporte doesn't ask for the documents they actually want, and they don't check your response emails until long after they've frozen the account, if ever.

[Forkbeard]

The sad thing is that Epassporte could make the negative press go away with ridiculous ease.

Yeah, true, first someone in their organization would have to read The Cluetrain Manifesto. (No, there is not a Cliff Notes version. The Cluetrain Manifesto IS the cliff notes for doing business on the internet.)

Then, all they would have to do is send somebody here to the boards who is (1) as good at PR as Michael O is at customer service, and (2) is empowered to make promises; and (3) is empowered to live up to them.

They could say:

1) We know it's fucked up.
2) We're fixing it, here's how.
3) If it's not fixed by [date], we want to hear about it from you.
4) If we don't get it fixed by [date], here's our plan for what we'll do then.
5) I'll be back on [date] to report on how we think we're doing and to get your feedback.

Then go do those things. Instant great press and warm accolades from all the loyal customers.

But for that, the decision-makers need to have a clue.

[Forkbeard]

OK, after another intervention by Michael O ("Thanks, Michael", Forkbeard said wearily) it looks like my fourteen days of Epassporte customer screwage may be over:

Dear Accountholder,

This is a follow up to our previous email asking for certain identifying information needed to authenticate the funds in your ePassporte account.

We would like to thank you for providing the information requested. Please continue to enjoy the benefits of ePassporte!

The ePassporte Team

I'd still like to hear from Epassporte management about why they have such a broken process in place, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Quagmire]

And yet after all this (very valid) complaining any program that drops them as a processor gets raked over the coals for it...

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by Profits of Doom

I agree completely, but I honestly don't believe they'll survive long enough to ever fix it. One day the gambling Big Brother is going to swoop in and freeze everyone's balance, and a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money...

Neteller just released everyones money. If they freeze it it will be for a short while then they will allow you to withdraw it.

Then again if you vote Ron Paul you wont have to worry about the Feds freezing the accounts