RawAlex

Meloman, one of the things I realized looking at the web20 model is that without a large amount of parasite advertising around the content, these sites have little hope of being profitable. They are bandwidth and server intensive situations, and require huge amounts of both if they really want to be able to cope with the traffic they get.

Sponsors need to clear this situation up. Are they permitting different uses of thier content? Are we now allowed to stitch together their videos to run together? Are we allowed to run other advertising on a page with thier content? Are we allowed up upload the content with our affiliate codes to other sites?

It will be interesting to see if programs start offering their content in other formats or make these deals more "open" to all.

playingwithmyself823

I am very sorry to disappoint you all but this is a very temporary success which is based on the ignorance and lack of legal knowledge of the billing company. Soon the billing company will talk with its lawyers and find out that Megarotic is a 100% legal site and that there is no problem charging for premium access. Its just a question of time. Also Megarotic will soon find another billing company and before working with them they will explain to the billing company what's exactly the legal stand and how to deal with people like you. Its going to be a pre-emptive briefing. you think you are doing life harder to sites like megarotic - but you are just accelerating your inevadable destiny. Either adjust or get out of this business!

Megarotic is DMCA complaint now 100 new billing companies are going to jump on this business opportunity with Megarotic and trust me that the next billing company will not eat your bullshit no more!

Just remember my words

xclusive

VG.Content for "Miss Gfy September"

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»Rob Content«

Megarotic is not 100% DMCA compliant, that's a joke, I don't even need to explain that as I know at least 20 people whose content is on their illegally.

Having the billing cut them off had nothing to do with DMCA at all anyways, it had to do with them having SCAT, rape, incest, pee/urine, beasty, and stuff that appeared to be underage.

Visa will not stand for that in any country. Cold simple fast, your entire post that I quoted made zero sense.

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playingwithmyself823

They will never pull your vids very interesting story!

playingwithmyself823

Thank you VG.Content for you explanation! can you ask those 20 people if they have send a DMCA notice to Megarotic? and if Megarotic has deleted for them the content?

I also suggest that Megarotic set up some moderators to police this types of content!

chupacabra

oh gods, not you again. if all this business is so above board why don't you register w/ a nick that reflects the site(s) you really work w/ then..?

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»Rob Content«

Actually I personally DMCA'ed them on many pieces of content on their site and nothing happened.

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commonsense

Then you just answered the obvious question. Megarotic is FULL of stolen content, and they're charging heavily reduced subscription fees and receiving advertising revenue for doing it.


Quit confusing Web 2.0 with stealing content. I know it's a difficult concept to grasp, but they're two completely different things.

Bake

Dude put down the crack pipe 100's of new billing companies you have to be really whacked.

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playingwithmyself823

Let me investigate this.. can you send me please 1-2 DMCAs you have posted to Megarotic?

Cheers

KrisKross

If you don't know what you're talking about, keep your mouth shut.

On average, tube sites have put $2500/month in my pocket for the last 6 months. I have programs that pre-cut and brand clips for me to use. And the sales are 100% from Pornotube and similar sites.

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playingwithmyself823

It has everything to do with web 2.0. You need to understand that one of the prices of web 2.0 vid sharing sites is Piracy! Video piracy is a natural user behavior! You find it on youtube, stage6, daily motion and 100 other tube sites as well as torrent sites! THIS DOES NOT MAKE THEM ILLEGAL and it does not eliminate the right of those sites to make money as a legit business. ironically you can see that many of the sponsors on those sites are right owner doing good business by selling their stuff (call it crazy - but this is the reality) It definitely changes the business rules - and this is what some of the loosers here fear!

DMCA is a principle many of you guys do not follow... this means that those sites do not get that many DMCA abuse emails - what makes it even harder for you guys to convince the world about your pathetic cause

Tube sites have piracy on them just as there is crime in any other social groups - this does not make them illegal! and you can not stop it from happening.

Now the other point is that if this "PIRACY" happens in that great of proportions - then we should question again whether its considered to be a crime ?

playingwithmyself823

Yes... its me again! I know that you don't like me that much but you are always very interested in reading my posts I really enjoy talking with people like you! you bring me always to big nice smile - what do you want to know about me exactly? How big is my dick? what's the weight of my balls? what's the smell of my shit after I will eat bacon and eggs? What language I like to code? what are my favorite tube sites? what Bittorrent client do I use? What sites I sponsor? what is my next big project? or why do I disagree with pathetic business man as yourself? let me answer you - It really does not matter or change a thing!

Young

I will be more then happy to.

Thank You.

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Paul Markham

Which is why we need to get someone employed and doing it on a proper basis. The problem is most will sit back and watch you do it, not contribute and reap the benefits.

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Paul Markham

It's good to see the way this thread has evolved and reality starting to dawn on people at last.

A few points.

The majority of the porn world does not need to shoot another video for around 5 years. There is more than enough content to satisfy normal demand.

Contrary to popular belief, the porn consumer does not want to download 200 porn scenes, otherwise you would not see the fear that 5 minutes is enough to turn him off from buying.

We sell a product for $30 that can be given away for free or for a lot less, $5 max in most cases. We do this not to make huge profits but to pay out $25 to the "traffic" side of the business. Please don't shoot the figures you know what I'm saying.

The people running the Tube sites or even the Megarotic sites simply do not care if you go out of business. No one is in business to help others unless it helps them. If 1% could put the other 99% out of business, by slashing prices 99% they will do it. Some will even sign up to Acacia in the hope the patent was enforceable. When you opened your pornsites did you care that magazine publishers would suffer?

We built it, we watched it go from 1-50 to 1-1,000, we pushed sponsors to give more and more to the traffic side and we sent traffic to people who quite honestly ripped off the surfer.

We've had 10 years of running it to suit us, now some are running it to suit the surfer and taking it from us. Welcome to the real world.

In the future you will be lucky to sell a membership for $5 and the affiliate will get 25 cents. Difference is there will be only 5% of us doing it and those left will make more money.

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MakingItPay

"When you opened your pornsites did you care that magazine publishers would suffer?"

We didn't steal their copyrighted work to open our websites. Well, most of us didn't.

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jonesonyou

Great work. keep it up.

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xmas13

This post made my day. Where did you read that piracy was not a crime? Do you live in Nigeria?

Are you just a retard working for MegaErotic or one of their founders?

You do a very poor job defending MegaErotic. YOU ARE FIRED!

xmas13

VG Content, you are my hero

Paul Markham

You must be a very new comer to the Internet then. LOL

Seriously most of the sites back in the beginning were stealing content from magazines or where ever else they could get it. When you emailed them and asked them to take it down or even pay for it they often ignored you. The popular reply was "It's from Newsgroups, so public domain." I tried for three months to sell to everyone I found stealing content. Gave up and let APIC send DMCAs to their hosts.

This illustrates the mentality of the morons today, can you imagine what it was like 15 years ago?

However I was not talking about the theft issue, which is wrong, I'm talking about those who keep going on and on about the decline of the Internet porn business. When they really mean the decline of their income from the business.

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Gerco

I for one hate my content being used in any way without my consent But an interesting argument came up on page 3 of this thread, where the affiliate was complaining about being about to compete with the tube style site, or the "deal the site may have made with the producer of the content. Bitching about the producers going and uploading promo's directly etc... interesting to me. Since as it stands right now, the affiliates in most cases are making more of the sale to a site membership than the actual site owner is. As a site owner, if I can promo myself and save myself that 50% or more, I would be insane not to. The high revshare that many affiliates have come to expect is gotten out of hand in my book. Do I pay it, yes, I have to. I require traffic just like anyone else. But I'm I going to look for cheaper alternatives? you bet. I have to to even think about staying profitable. My profit is from the memberships only. You chop that membership fee up in affiliate fees processing business expense and it really leaves a VERY small margin. If I was a TGP owner, I would be worried about the tubesites also.

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RawAlex

Megarotic has done no such thing. At best, they very slowly react to official DMCA notices, if your company is big enough or if they appear to feel like it, and even then, it is only for the specific file you have mentioned. They don't remove other instances and they do not remove it if it reappears.

Megarotic lost it's process for the same reason many other sites have lost their processing. They shouldn't have processing to start with, because there is no way that the site could pass a Visa or Mastercard inspection, as they would be unable to produce model releases and proof of age for their content.

Carry on deluding yourself dude. You really should put the crack pipe down.

Robbie

BWAAAAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAA!
Yes, please...can you take time out of your 12 to 14 hour a day workday, and send some guy whom you don't know and who has NEVER even worked in this business some copies of personal legal papers? He would like to "investigate" it.

For what? So you can get down to the bottom of all this and "fix" it with all of your "legal" piracy?

I've already told you pal...you are ignorant. Not stupid. But IGNORANT of the internet. You are talking to people who have worked on the internet since the beginning. And you are TRYING to lecture them.

How about this...stop embarrassing yourself. Open your eyes and shut your mouth and LEARN.

I did. Of course that was a decade ago. I kept my mouth shut for YEARS.
Instead of coming on here and making your grand pronouncements about things that you don't understand. Why don't you just kind of lay low. Ask questions RESPECTFULLY. There are some guys on here who are real smart.
And then after a couple of years when you have seen how things REALLY shake out and how things REALLY work...or at least have some clue. THEN offer your OPINION RESPECTFULLY.

This place would be well served if everyone followed that advice. But especially you.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

RawAlex

Paul, if the pie is artificially made smaller, then everyone's income drops, except for the people who have figured out how to get a double helping, and those are the guys stealing and robbing everyone blind.

Ask your friends in the magazine business, or ask the people in the DVD business - the internet really hurt their businesses, but the internet generated huge increases in total porn sales. I don't see the total porn pie getting bigger because of tube and torrent sites, but it is looking to be much, much smaller. More and more of the sales are going to third party non-producers, who are laughing at the people buying your content because it is an expense they don't have.

You should know yourself. How much was an exclusive shoot 5 years ago? how much today? At a straight line, how much will it be tomorrow? At what point do even the relatively inexpensive girls of the Czech republic get to be too expensive for porn? Then what do you do for a living?

The more content gets out for free, or is resold without license, the more the value of that content drops until few are going to pay for it. What is your business model at that point?

Robbie

And eventually, it doesn't pay to shoot new content...and POOF, no more porn industry. You're right, the torrents and piracy are eating the whole thing up like cancer. Including themselves.

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-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Niktamer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Schmitz

For those who dont know who is the owner of megarotic /megaupload

he his already in probation for fraud , i really think you can take him down.

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Niktamer

He even pretend to beat youtube..

http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/07...youtube-killer

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MakingItPay

Been hating content theft since 1997. When you see work you paid for being sold by people that don't pay your bills and have no skin in the game all the while being protected and supported by big companies, you may have a right to go on and on. No?

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hardcoreblogger

great job VG, big congrats

dude you're full of shit and you don't have a clue about the law. you better go back to play in your kindergarden.

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Paul Markham

Very good point. For ages everyone accepted that sponsors drove their own traffic and affiliates was "cream on the top" and the majority of costs were met without the affiliates. Now it seems some affiliates don't want sponsors to drive traffic.

Affiliates, understand this without getting your backs up. THE INDUSTRY IS NOT HERE FOR YOUR BENEFIT. Cost too much and you leave us open to competition from those without affiliates or print your own death warrant.

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Paul Markham

I have fought content theft longer than anyone in this thread so please don't assume I'm for it.

But if the income into the porn industry shrinks the lean and fit survive, the fat and lazy become die.

Unless we are prepared to spend a lot of money fighting content theft we can't stop them stealing. It's not good you relying on people like VG content to do our job for us for free.

And lets assume we do stop them stealing, then what will happen? They will buy and license content. I think someone is offering 300 videos for $2500 on this board at this very moment.

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Paul Markham

I was a paid up member of APIC since 1992 if my memory serves me right. I have no problem paying and supporting an organisation today to do the same thing.

I do not see stopping content theft as the problem though. The problem is, it is becoming easier to sell porn at a price that does not support the affiliate machine we have built. As more and more sites see traffic going to far cheaper options for the surfer this part of the porn industry will need to take stock and adjust.

I can deliver a site with 5 videos good enough to enjoy for $1.00, so $2.00 to make a good profit. Am I better off selling that to 100 than 1 $30 site to 1 surfer? Don't gripe about the numbers, you know what I'm talking about.

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J B

Why am I not surprised...

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RawAlex

Paul, you miss the point entirely. When torrent and tube sites are giving away more than enough content to get the punters off, they aren't spending $30 and they aren't spending $1 either. You aren't choosing between "this and that" but "something or nothing".

It is all about the costs of obtaining new customers. If it costs you $5 to find a new customer, then making $1 off of them isn't going to do it for you. The costs of obtaining new customers is always higher than retaining existing ones. Making it harder to find new customers makes it even more expensive each time.

It is the reason why established dating sites like AFF can make huge payouts, because they are only paying for new first time members, not returning members and not existing members. So As they get a bigger and bigger percentage of the like customers signed up once, their business model becomes more about retention, and paying huge dollars to get a declining number of new customers. They are using the torrent and tube sites to do it, they are the only ones able to consistantly pay high dollars for new users.

If you teach people not to pay for porn, the number of people who will pay for it gets small and smaller, and they become infinitely more valuable, not less.

Allowing the tubes and torrents to freely distribute stolen material and paying them to do it is fucking insane and suicidal.

Paul Markham

No Alex you don't get it.

Unless you are prepared to SPEND and SPEND, which I doubt you are and if you did it still would not work. The business is changing. The days of spending $25 to get a customer who by your own admission is looking for something that can be delivered for free, are drawing to a close.

Please forget the stealing it's blinding you. I can go out and buy 500 movies today for $3,000 and never have to bother with a DMCA, my billing being pulled, lawyer, FBI or anything else. I can deliver those movies for 3 cents a time in a good quality, well good enough to jerk off to.

Truth is the porn consumer is not looking to download 100 movies, if you ran a site and knew the BW burn of the MEMBERS AREA you would know this. He wants 20 minutes, that can be compressed and delivered for free or at a price that HE WILL PAY because of the ease and speed.

To sustain the affiliate model we need exclusive content, servers to handle the free traffic, people to upload the free content, galleries, banners, RSS, FHGs, tools, free Chameleon and everything else, we then need people to design them, people to support affiliates, throw parties at shows, buy banners and pay out 50% to what ever %, plus $100 sign up Sundays. And to cap it all affiliates are now telling sponsors what they can and can't do to get traffic.

Sorry but welcome to a changing world.

I will keep my main paysite going as it always has and support my affiliates. But for tomorrow and my families future I will be putting up sites at a price the surfer is willing to pay. Will he pay $2 for 4 movies? I believe he will because I have faith in him and know what he wants.

And please don't scare me with BS about downloading all my site and giving it away for free. Or the surfer will not pay for anything. I've heard it already and have more faith.

What ever happens the last few months have proved there is another way. And every surfer that discovers a site delivering what he needs at a price he likes is another one less for the old model.

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fuzzylogic

this thread has some good reading. bump to share the wealth lol

Sausage

The thing is that the affiliate who relies on other's traffic is being squeezed out. Whether you submit to tgps, tubes, linklists, picposts whatever ... there is less traffic for you, less quality, and often you are having to pay for it. This is the main thing you will see with tube sites, because while many take submits, once they become a standard of free porn delivery then you will probably find the 5k programs desperate for traffic will be cutting out the middle man, and thats where you will see the damage in the industry. Tube sites simply don't have to be affiliate friendly and maybe thats the issue for most adult webmasters.

Fact is people its getting harder for those who merely insert themselves between a traffic source and a traffic destination and hold out their hand for payment. This process makes sense on a business level, and already paid submit accounts are standard for anyone with traffic. Seeing as probably 80% of this industry relies on other's traffic, I think thats probably where a large part of the hostility is coming from.

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RawAlex

It doesn't matter if you deliver those movies for 1 cent. If you have no model in place to recover that 1 cent and to make 1 more cent for profit, you have failed.

The same 500 movies you can buy for $3000 have already been ripped, encoded, compresses, and distributed 100 times over on the torrents. They are probably all over the 'tube sites as well, and they are being trades amoungst friends over and over again for free.

Thinking that you can VOD this stuff for even $1 is a nice idea, but the reality is as every day goes by, there are more and more people who know how to get porn off of a torrent, and less and less people wanting to pay for porn. The customer base for porn is basically people too stupid or too scared to download a torrent file or too ignorant to do a search on google and visit a tube site.

The more this goes on, the less need there is for everyone in the food chain. Affiliates drop off, programs die, demand for fresh content drops, and people like yourself are cut out of the game (except for sites you run yourself) and the return on those sites gets smaller.

Don't worry about it. Go ahead and dump all your content on the tubes and enjoy the signups you get. They won't last.

RawAlex

It is an issue because tube style sites are like a hyper-affiliate, and are granted special rights that normal affiliates don't have. If I ran videos for 3 or 4 minutes "borrowed" off the site, or stitched together 20 second clips to make a 2 minute run, I would likely be removed as an affiliate. These sites are rewarded for the same thing.

The affiliate system is getting squeezed, without any guidelines and without any loyalty from the programs that were built on affiliate efforts.

Aussie Rebel

Alex, talking to paul about torrent sites is like trying to have a conversation with your foot,

RawAlex

I just don't want anyone reading this thread to think that all content providers have that opinion. I enjoy Paul's opinion, but unless what I am being told is wrong, most content providers aren't on the same page as him.

EdgeXXX

I know who that asshat is; the guy is a fucking joke. Are you sure he is the one behind Megarotic? I have a hard time believing he could be the mastermind behind anything that's even mildly successful...

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Sausage

I accept that, though they aren't the first. The larger review sites are also like hyper affiliates, and I recall a thread by Steve Lightspeed some time ago where it was mentioned that they do special deals with programs for reduced prices essentially undercutting normal affiliates. Different cause, but essentially the same result.... and not just the domain of tube style sites.

Also as a program owner who in the early days spent many many hours with many newbie affiliates working with them and helping them build their sales only to have them up and leave at the mere sniff of a better offer ... there is little loyalty in this industry.

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s9ann0

https://secure.commercegate.com/paym...word=72606 56

works

s9ann0

oh god I hate that fat fuck don't tempt me

BAKO

good work

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s9ann0

looks like megarotic has about 3 hosts:

carpathiahost.com
alphared.com

based in US for frontend servers

fiberring.com in .NL where the movies are streamed from

Matt 26z

If that is the case, then how do the tube sites remain in business? If the paid advertisements do not generate sales, then why do the same companies continue to purchase advertising?