sperbonzo

In his own words....

"If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court, I think where it succeeded was to invest formal rights in previously dispossessed people, so that now I would have the right to vote. I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order as long as I could pay for it I?d be o.k. But, the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society."

"To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn?t that radical. It didn?t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as its been interpreted and Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can?t do to you. Says what the Federal government can?t do to you, but doesn?t say what the Federal government or State government must do on your behalf, and that hasn?t shifted and one of the, I think, tragedies of the civil rights movement was, um, because the civil rights movement became so court focused I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalition of powers through which you bring about redistributive change. In some ways we still suffer from that."

These are actual quotes by an actual person who is actually on course to be the next president of our country. Senator Obama thinks we suffer because the Warren Court wasn't radical enough to junk the Constitution entirely.

This is your last warning guys....


..

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OY

Michael, forget about this. You will not win this time around. Come back in 4 years and tell us Democrats that we were wrong instead if that is the case when that time comes around.

For now just sit, relax and enjoy the change that is coming.

xoxoxo
Oy--

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TheDoc

You may want to try reading it again.....

So the man speaks the truth and it's a warning?

Be warned everyone, Obama tells the truth and everyone knows a truth telling president would be a bad thing.

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sperbonzo

You're probably right buddy... *sigh*

I think it will be too late by then, but never mind.


Will we see you in LA? I actually need to have a meeting with you...

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TheSenator

Health care is a right.

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

LOL where you find that? On the internets and so must all be true?

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mynameisjim

So now republicans are protectors of the constitution? Where were you when Dick Cheney and GW Bush where carving it up to give the White House and the office of the President broad powers that would have made the founding fathers roll over in their graves?

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OY

I will be in LA for the Webmaster Access in November - lets get together then

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Agent 488

Penthouse Tony

That was pretty funny

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iseeyou

He says "tragedies of the civil rights movement"

He does NOT say "tragedies of the constraints of the constitution"

Pleasurepays

says who?

where do "rights" come from?

StuartD

Wow, he thinks that the government should do more for the people.
The man must be evil!!

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notoldschool

BINGO...the so called Republicans have shredded the consitution in a very short 8 years and now they cry that Obama will do worse..LOL

Hey now, if we have to pay a shit load of taxes the least thing our joke of a goverment can offer is health care to its citizens. Dont ya think?

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Pleasurepays

the funny thing is that the same people bitching about it... can totally ignore the guy that's openly calling the constitution into question... of course, he's your guy right? so that's ok now? not an issue anymore? not so important today? not so important what happens next to the constitution you WERE so worried about?


it's not the government offering anything. its someone taking my money and giving it to someone else.

and based on what? why do you think i owe you what you can't pay a few hundred dollars a month for?

StuartD

It's cute the way Americans care about Americans. You must think the same of the military then? Why should some kid go out and die for what you could have gone out and died for?

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notoldschool

It comes down to a TWO men.

John Mccain or Barack Obama, unforunatly Ron Paul was shown the door. Now with these two men as my choice I have to favor the more socially Liberal man over the flip flop right wing evangelical ass kissing, economy disastor that is Mccain/Palin.

Sure there are issues I disagree with Obama on but not nearly as many as with Palin/Mccain.

I am a military man and i know that Mccain was a very poor soldier who got through on the family name. He was a horrible fighter pilot, student, senator...blah blah blah..

Ill go with the Harvard grad EVERY time over the flunky ass wipe who doesnt know how to use a computer.

Im a fiscal convservative, social liberal...and Mccain/Palin are neither of those. Mccain plans to spend more of MY money on his failed policy than Obama who is far more Republican than Mccain.

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scoreman

"I'm the mayor, I can do whatever I want until the courts tell me I can't.'" --Sarah Palin

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tony286

well said

iseeyou

At least Obama seems to say what he believes ... unlike Bush and McCain who praise the consitution while covertly subverting it. It is very easy to talk about how great the consitution is. Look at Obama's and McCain's voting records to find out what they really think about the Constitution.

TheDoc

He didn't call the constitution into question. You could skew it that way if you wish.

He is referring to Civil Liberties related to the Constitution. And he is "very correct" in what he said. He didn't lie and isn't trying to use trick words, he stated cold hard facts.





Your money is already taken and given to someone else. We all just got nailed for trillions, to give back to Banks, which some "have" used to buy other bad Debts with already. Basically bailing out the other super rich, with your money.... with no control over what they spend it on.

Not counting all Schools, every public program in every City and State, all poor and old people, including medial for illegals or visitors. Every already known social program, which we have 1000's of.

The richer you are, the higher tax you pay. Your money IS taken from you and used to make the Country better. From wars and money that fund Corps that supply the wars goods to local crap in every state/city. It all redistributes our wealth.

You owe, because you use the system every day. Your kids will, your parents will, you will..

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

I thinkits funny that conservatives freak about the Obama plan to bring in regulation and focus the return of the middle class in his plan, yet COnservatives pass a 700 billion dollar welfare project to the richest people in America during a 8 year war that is over 10 Million dollars a month.

American tax dollars are for Americans, we put in it and the Conservatives throw it away like toilet paper to people that do not even like America.

I think it is about time Government puts our money into the American system of checks and balance along with oh say some good schools, better roads, and over all growth of our nation. One can only imagine what great things our country would have if the government was more diligent in the infrastructure of our own country rather than pissing it away on foriegn adventures that have accomplished absolutly nothing.

FOr these conservative pigs that want to call it socialism they can eat a dick and die in the gutter. Fuck them.

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iseeyou

Once more, I remind you that the title of this thread is false, perhaps even libel.

He says "tragedies of the civil rights movement"

He does NOT say "the constraints of the constitution are a tragedy"

Pleasurepays

oh... well by all means. lets take more. and you know what? AND... lets take more of MY money, because i work harder, longer and better than most.

Not counting all Schools, every public program in every City and State, all poor and old people, including medial for illegals or visitors. Every already known social program, which we have 1000's of.

wrong. that will never be true until there's a flat tax. the richer you are... the lower % of your income you will be to the federal government in income taxes. never the less, the a few % at the top, already pay the the majority federal income taxes as it is.


Ok Comrade Stalin, I accept your retarded rationalization of moving once again towards confiscatory tax rates and punishing of those who actually create jobs and build wealth. I mean... if the government is already taking some of my money....why not take more? In fact, why even bother to call it "mine" to begin with??? I've now seen the light Mao! I'm in it really for everyone else. That's what a capitalist/free market economy is about!

What the fuck is next with you people? You sound like your pretty close to rounding up "enemies of the state" for execution so you can build your workers paradise once anyone with a brain is out of the way.

notoldschool

Well said. Finding a real conservative in Washignton is finding big foot.

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germ

Wow...you're really reaching for this one.

Did you even read the quote you posted? He never once called the constitution a tragedy.

If this is the best Republicans can do, this election is in the bag.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Dude worse than than that! Jeesus...
Let's talk about how these Conservatives ran to Communist China for lines of Credit!
The entire war effort is based on taking out loans from Communists! THats right these fucking bastards have indebted America to Communists! Jessus mother fucking christ...

Now if that does not break the leg of credibility to Republican/Conservative's claims of a fucking Democrat being a socialist nothing will.

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

For all I care the Republicans can dig up a photo of Obama sucking Carl Marx's cock and it still would not detour me from voting for Obama at this point.

THere Absolutly nothing the Republicans can say or do at this point, they made there fucking bed and they better sleep lightly in it because there is going to be hell to pay.

Them shit stain excuses for human beings are lucky to be breathing these days for whoring AMerica out to Communists and wiping thier asses with all our hard earned money.

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TheDoc

You will get a tax break. What the hell are you worried about?

I understand you don't like higher taxes, but you are okay with sky rocking medical/healthcare costs that do cost you more every year?

So you are okay with giving your money to those rich fucks so they can cancel you when you get sick... allow people to die that have paid in... But it's not okay to make sure "you and your entire family" are taken care of, if you can't afford it or if the insurance company "chooses" to drop you.


Huh? The rich get taxed more now, it's impossible to argue this. Just because I can use company loop holes to pay less tax, doesn't mean I still don't pay a higher percentage of tax than a poor person.

And a flat tax system, would mean the rich pay less and the poor pay more.


Trickle down economics doesn't work, it never did.. not even a tiny bit. You can not give tax breaks to the super rich or give them more money. It does not produce more jobs, it does not fund the eco, and they do not give anything to the poor. Tax free donations so they can lower overall tax brackets in different Corps they own, isn't giving to the poor.

Tax breaks work for the middle class and small business owners, which are the people that actually produce the most jobs in America and the people that spend the most money.

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iseeyou

Bush should be sitting in Guantanamo Bay prison in an orange jump suit. No need to impeach and try him in the senate. He should simply be put in a glass case (by Obama) and be labeled "enemy combatant" for the rest of his life ... and receive daily beatings from his father as punishment for invading Baghdad. GW Bush can pay off his debt to society by ticket sales to view a "live ex-president in glass case". It will be like a twilight zone episode where the bad guy gets what is coming to him in the end.

If McCain wins this election, it is time for revolution.

J. Falcon

Nice post.

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Pleasurepays

i pay the same. haven't noticed my insurance "sky rocketing"

the problem in "affordable healthcare" has ZERO to do with insurance or hospitals are doctors or anyone in the medical profession.. it has to do with a legal system that is in desperate need of tort reforms.

sorry man, i'm sitting right next to a guy who was the CFO of Blue Cross / Blue Shield for many years. they don't make real profits from what they charge. their margins are very small.


Huh??

i'm totally fine.

i object to paying the health insurance of someone who always seems to have nice wheels wheels on their car, the latest designer clothes, all the newest, neatest mobile gadgets but wants to tell me that health care costs too much.

how about people start making common sense shit a priority in their lives? wouldn't that be "CHANGE"


you're insane. you clearly have zero clue what you are talking about. you are confusing tax rates with what is actually paid.


uhmm.. ok,.. you just out-insaned yourself. if everyone pays 10%... everyone pays 10%. its not real difficult math.


you are stating opinion as fact.

raising taxes and chasing people offshore as we have been doesn't help the economy either.

you seem to have this very marxist attitude about big companies.

i respect your dream. hopefully you will one day live in a society where no one succeeds. where the Microsoft's of the nation aren't there creating 100's of 1000's of jobs across the globe and giving more philanthropically than any organization or private individual ever has in the history of the planet.

that seems to be the world you think is best.

so .. huh? giving to the poor is not giving to the poor?

really?

i am starting to suspect blunt force trauma to the head. feel dizzy? nauseous? tired? vision blurry?

are you sure?

i don't entirely disagree with this. i understand how many jobs are created by small business.

iseeyou

Which state you live in Pleasurepays? Arkansas? Alabama? or what?

Here is some "news" which you can agree with.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=cxQ8hWekypY

directfiesta

spin is at its highest level ....

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stickyfingerz

He found it in the radio interview you refused to listen to earlier...

pornguy

I dont think that the old man will be any better. I think either way we are fucked.

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stickyfingerz

We've disagreed over the years but I always applaud your common sense.

directfiesta

Sticky, you new avatar is really lousy and annoying ... working on another one ???...

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Drake

"What improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconveniency to the whole. No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable. " - Adam Smith (aka the father of modern economics), The Wealth of Nations, Book I Chapter VIII

Drake

"What improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconveniency to the whole. No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable. " Adam Smith (aka the father of modern economics), The Wealth of Nations, Book I Chapter VIII

J. Falcon

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pocketkangaroo

That's a part of it, but not the reason our healthcare system sucks. Tort reform has nothing to do with people who have pre-existing conditions. If you have had diabetes, had heart problems or God forbid were born with some kind of defect, there isn't a health insurance company in the country that would take you on. Simply put, insurance is not available to you. This doesn't even account for the millions of other people who can get covered but not for the pre-existing conditions they have. Or their premiums are more than they make in an entire year (a cancer survivor will look to pay around $2000 a month in coverage).

And lets talk about those insurance companies. Have you ever had a major medical problem where you had to stay in a hospital? They will fight you for every penny. My Mom has great insurance through one of the major companies. She had to spend 4 days in a hospital. The insurance company refused to pay for more than 2 despite the doctors saying she needed to stay. The insurance company fought the prescriptions they gave her and said they weren't necessary. It took about 6 months of fighting them on things they simply refused to pay for. Things top notch doctors ordered. This isn't new either, this is what happens to just about everyone. I bet you half this board can give you a nightmare scenario with their insurance company.

Sure there margins are small, but their profits aren't. The major healthcare companies made billions. It's a huge industry where a lot of money is made. Lets not act like these guys are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts.


Not every human being on the planet who needs health care is doing what you said. Just as not every human being who is on welfare is a crack smoking black person. I'm not saying you're wrong on the argument with health care, I'm just saying this notion that everyone fits into a stereotype is silly.

you're insane. you clearly have zero clue what you are talking about. you are confusing tax rates with what is actually paid.

uhmm.. ok,.. you just out-insaned yourself. if everyone pays 10%... everyone pays 10%. its not real difficult math.

His comments weren't Marxist at all. Just because you heard some McCain campaign staff member use the word doesn't mean it's a fair assessment. Reminds me of people using "appeasement" when they had no clue what it meant. I hope people on both sides of the aisle read about Marx and his philosophies so they can stop sounding ignorant when invoking his name.

stickyfingerz

hehe, nope its working.

pocketkangaroo

So the 4% difference in tax rates between the two suddenly makes Obama a Marxist Commie and McCain Adam Smith reincarnated?

And how exactly do you plan to pay for our $10 trillion dollar debt the fiscal conservatives have put in? You guys want no one to pay taxes but want to spend all this imaginary money that we don't have.

Why

looked the response oystein.

stickyfingerz

Would Tort reform not lower the overall cost for the hospitals and Doctors and nurses via reduced legal / malpractice insurance costs? Would that not go towards lowering the overall cost of medical expenses? Which in turn should help lower premiums, allowing people that previously were unable to be covered more leeway? I agree there needs to be reform on pre exisiting conditions too.

TheDoc

So all these pill producing companies that charge 1000-5000% more in our Country do it because they got sued?



So you are a younger MALE, with no kids, that doesn?t smoke. Neat.

My wife is a younger women, with 2 kids, and tubes tied. But she gets charged more because she is within a child having age range.

Also, could you punch the blue cross guy in the face. They wouldn?t? cover my kid, even though my wife and my kid could have died from previous medical conditions my wife has. I was basically fined $20,000 for having a kid.

Thank god my wife went to work for a much larger porn company before the 2nd kid came around. They couldn?t deny shit then.


So I should live poor because of my wife born medical problems? I can?t have a nice car because I should have to cover the $3,000-$7,000 a month medical costs and the $1000 a month pill cost?

I don?t think you have a clue what Insurance costs once you get sick.


23% base or just under 30% on money earned for middle and up. It works out the same, either way. And the poor, can pay less. So if you set it at 10 or 15% - you take more money from the poor and less from the higher incomes.

Problem is, the poor end up paying a higher % of tax, with all taxes added on.

Do I pay less than 23%, hell yes I do. But I own a Company and so can all but the poorest and most disadvantaged Americans can get the same benefits as myself.

My friend, trickle down eco failed. If you wish to accept that or not, is up to you. They forgot one MAJOR factor, and it is the reason it failed?. Greed.



Only way to change companies from going offshore is to correct what they say the problem is. Healthcare costs. And the fact that capital gains tax is 35%. Why in hell anyone would want to invest in this Country, is clear.

No no, I want what MS has. I want to be able to suck this Country dry of billions of dollars from the buyers to the people I hire. I want that money to trickle up, from the people to my bank account. And once I have it, I will take their money and open up Companies on other Countries, so I don?t have to pay taxes anymore. Once I do this enough, I will slowly fire all the people that helped me get my billions of dollars, and go hire people for a dime a month.

What a great feeling that will be. Fire hard working people that help build what I have and go hire others for a few dollars a month, and not have to supply health insurance, or work conditions.. Basically, I want slaves like MS has.



No really? See you give to the poor, because you want to ?GIVE?? All these guys, bill gates, I?m not even going to list them.

When I want to help charity, I write a check and give it to them and mark that on my taxes, that?s giving to the poor.

When they do it, they use a foundation that they own. Allowing them to take personal money, into a foundation they own, which removes the money from the market. They have to then donate a % to make it legal, and the rest can be invested into things like Gold, which isn?t trackable.

This is using the poor, to pay less tax, actually giving them less than you say you did, and then investing your own money again, tax free, into a market that allows you to be paid back, tax free.

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pocketkangaroo

Of course it would and I said I'm all for it. But it doesn't stop the two major problems in healthcare. People who can't get insurance because of a pre-existing condition, and the insurance companies abusing their power and screwing over policyholders. I think the following should be done:

- Tort reform

- Laws that prohibit insurance companies from rejecting claims against the insurer made by accredited doctors. There could then be a state review board where insurance companies could file claims of abuse by doctors and have them reviewed by independent panels. Doctors found to abuse their power would be punished.

- Laws prohibiting prescription drug companies from offering gifts, etc to doctors for prescribing their medication.

- Government run healthcare for those who can't acquire health insurance due to pre-existing conditions. People will be required a small percent of their income (roughly what they'd pay as a healthy person) to this as a premium. Government will negotiate with drug companies and insurance companies for best price (they have a lot of bargaining power).

- Government assistance to those who can't afford to pay for insurance.

Not only does this get everyone covered, but it helps take the burden off hospitals for having to pick up the tab for uninsured patients.

Why

someone has to put the disgusting levels of greed in this country in check, if it takes a constitutional amendment to do that, i say lets do it. you can not convince me that its fair that there are people pocketing BILLIONS of dollars a year in personal wealth while there are others living in dirt floored ramshackle houses, and others owing more then they will ever make in their lifetime, in our country. we can not continue down this path of stacking all the money in one corner and allowing the disproportional spread of wealth to keep going this way, this will take us right back to a place we left once before, history has shown it can not work. im all for capitalism but at this point its far beyond acceptable levels. the extremely large corporations and wealthy businessmen have cannibalized on their own countrymen long enough.

just because there isn't a law against things doesn't make them right, many of these companies and their operators are criminals. if morals wont stop them, maybe the law can. im not for more laws, entirely the opposite, but something or someone has to reign these swine in. unfortunately it most likely wont happen until we clean up campaign finance and start limiting the time officials can spend in DC. i do not support socialism(totally), marxism or any other crap, but its glaringly obvious that this system is not working.

IllTestYourGirls

Doc the reason health care is so expensive is because of insurances until you realize that you will always be lost. Health care is not a free market is socialized both by the government and big business (company health care coverage). Those are the main reasons health care is so expensive and proof that socialism does not work. I am over simplifying.

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