Originally Posted by gideongallery

how the fuck do you come to that conclusion
you can't pirate dating (well you can but it called human trafficing )

Originally Posted by halfpint

Im not nor have I ever bitched about tubes. I was actually hinting that some big tubes push videosz so they must make $$$. I personally havent tried them yet but I do know that tubes push them amongst other products.

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Ok but you have to admit that there are huge differences between something like American Idol which has probably the biggest back end of any show in history, and something like porn which is produced for the explicit purpose of selling copies of the production.

Also, remember most of the people who post here don't own any content (exclusively...they own licenses but no content) and they're wondering how they fit into this future you envision, since all they've really been to this point is middle men standing between the person buying porn and the person selling it.

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

You can totally pirate dating. I could pay someone right now to build a script that scrapes profiles from any dating site I want. In fact, I'm surprised someone hasn't done it yet. You could do it for under $10K. Then just open a free adult dating site and upsell cams.

Originally Posted by Ozarkz

That's slightly BS..

You are saying all the sponsors cared about is $$$ and let webmasters do whatever they wanted as long as they brought in the cash... They only allowed special circumstances for BIG, bro/whale webmasters on the RARE occasion. NOTHING in comparison to what is being done with Illegal tubes.

Just like if you opened up a Tube site tomorrow and said HEY Brazzers, Twistys, etc.. Give me 1000 15 - 30 minute clips..

They'd laugh at you. But maybe if your traffic is gold and you are a bro they might give you 1 a week or 1 a month.. Etc.. Like they have been doing today with the really popular illegal tubes.

You also claim that the sites that give away MORE FREE CONTENT are converting better.

So why couldn't they afford their hosting bill if their sales were soo high?

The fact is these sites didn't exist.. Nobody was giving away free content willy nilly.. Like the Illegal tubes are.. Programs did not allow it..

Originally Posted by gideongallery

well if you are a middleman you are screwed, affiliates who just push traffic to get signup are dead meat.

That being said use branding bugs internally to increase retention (by advertising/upselling non pirateable content/benefits) would be the most effective way for an affiliate based paysite to survive.

Affiliates should be looking for sites which do this, because while there conversion ratios may be getting worse, the retention levels will increase and therefore balance out.

Originally Posted by gideongallery

http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?...40214&from=rss
+
scraper you just talked about

= your ass in jail/facing major fines.

Originally Posted by Jakez

What kind of bandwidth deals are these larger tubes getting?

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

A good quality exclusive shoot costs about 2K. From what I hear the bigger tubes are spending 6 figures a month on hosting, so the idea that they can't afford content is kind of silly.

Originally Posted by Choker

It's all good man. I'm just saying that despite all the free movies on tube sites send a surfer to videoz from a tube site and the conversions are good. Mega sites and sub niche sites seem to do really good with tube traffic.

Originally Posted by Choker

I make 10.3 cents per click from text links under full lenght movies, 2.5 from text links under 2 minute long movies. My figures are accurate and this is from hundreds of thousands of clicks over a 9 month period

Originally Posted by Choker

All these tube hating threads are getting so old. All the ideas thrown around about how to destroy them, etc I mean come on guys. Tube sites are making a killing. After almost a year of research I have discovered why surfers that are given so much free porn still sign up and buy a membership. The people who are saying that tube sites traffic is garbage and the surfer never buys anything are the same people who are being laughed at by the big program owners that are buying up every available spot on tube sites.

As webmasters we surf the internet paying close attention to sites designs, methods, etc. For us it's a job. We cannot surf the internet without our webmaster hats on. It's impossible. We forget that most people surf the internet with 90% of their brain turned off.

Surfers are dumb as fuck. They dont pay attention to text much anymore, they are like 4 year olds. Give them a picture book they will spend hours looking at the pics. Give them a text book they lose interest in 5 seconds. Surfers are the same way.

The big programs found a long time ago that putting their full length movies on tube sites and linking to their paysite from it converted surfers. No logic in this right? I mean why the fuck would a surfer pay for a movie he gets for free? 2 reasons

1. People are collecters. They love to collect. The average surfer does not know how to download a flv movie to his computer.

2. Surfers are stupid. When they see a 2 minute clip on a tube site and you got 100 text links around the movie saying "This is a sample clip from the full length movie you can download by clicking here" they still dont see those 100 text links. They think that paysite only has 2 minute movies inside it and they sure as hell are not going to pay for access to two minute movies.

Believe me or not I dont care. I've done my research well on this. Clicks from under full length movies convert 4 times better than clicks from under 2 minute movies.

Originally Posted by Ron2k1

Aren't you making most of your money by selling it to other webmasters in stead of converting it yourself?

I do believe you can make money with tubes if you regulate it a bit, but giving away 30+ minutes clips is still crazy.

Also you are talking about legal tubes, but don't you think the illegal ones like tube8, empflix, pornhub etc do harm this business? You can't deny that...

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I just ICQed Choker, let's see if he takes my offer.

What are the odds?

Originally Posted by fris

one of the tube guys on gfy gets it at $3 a mbps

Originally Posted by voodoo

sponsors: Spam me with hosted full length movies

Originally Posted by BV

This thread is a fucking joke.

Full length clips increase sales. lol

How fucking stupid do u have to be to believe that?

hahaha

Originally Posted by Biggy

Are you really suggesting ppl should go full length movies and they are better off doing this than limited content. I don't believe that for one second. If it is true, its because either a significant amount of ppl click less, or theres something about the product you are selling them that you arent revealing in this thread, but in an environment where sponsors are giving out videos and then trying to upsell them to the paysite the video is from, there is absolutely no way you are better off giving them the full length. In fact, the most illegal of the tube sites, are the ones with the worst conversions and the highest turnover of ad spots!

And contrary to popular belief, tube sites arent printing money hand over fist. So much of it is predicated on cost and insanely low bandwidth prices, another critical point is the prepaid market which lately has been pulling back in a big way. Any successful tube site owner will tell you there will be months of loss before you ever turn a profit, if you even turn a profit. A little traffic = lots of bandwidth costs.

Your full length argument from big programs is RIDICULOUS. Ask eric from removeyourcontent - every single big program has limitations on time limit of what can and cannot be listed! Some of these companies even have in house counsel constantly enforcing to ensure of this... you really need to watch the message you are sending out, cause promoting the encouragement of sponsors giving full length videos is fucking ridiculous. All you're doing is inspiring more illegal tubes and piracy to pop up because not one big program sponsor will ever allow it. The big programs I specifically reference are brazzers, rk, bang, naughty america, etc - perhaps you can tell me the big programs you are talking about? brazzers is involved with pornhub, we all know this, why does pornhub only list brazzers clips in 3 minute sittings and have been doing this since it started... full length clips = more traffic = more bw costs = worst conversions. The more you give away, the less they need to buy, and the more quality you give away, the less they buy.

Originally Posted by FrozenJag

Well said...

Dont forget the more full length tubes there are the more content choker can sell.

Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy

HOURS of hosted flvs for everyone to use on my sig...

Originally Posted by Choker

I just looked at your sites, now I understand why you are such a miserable person

Originally Posted by BV

my sites convert fine, ( i can prove it)
my traffic is way down because you have fucked things up with sites like yours: http://www.thesextubesite.com/ (nice trades in there. your trades are trading with the stolen video tubes) i'm sure you know that though. Nice way to go....

You alone have fucked a good percent of this market up. I hope your fucking happy. It was so easy for you to infect and introduce the TGP/MGP surfers to SEXTUBES, hahaha

You may be a winner but for every dollar you make someone else has lost 100.

And watch out for Shap, he wants your sextube! or he did. How did that go over anyways? Fill us in.

PS:
I'd be happy to post screen shots and conversion ratios to show you that my sites convert between 1:50 & 1:500 from most affiliates.

And that's first page unique clicks! with full price membership and no trial!

Zero upsells anywhere.

Almost no one can say that.

I will survive.

Originally Posted by halfpint

BV why dont you use the illegal tubes to your advantage. If they are using stolen content then wtf wont you use them right back. Use thier traffic resources to put surfers infront of your sites even if they dont convert at least you are "fighting back in the google search rankings" even if you take 200 surfers a day away at least they are surfing your sites and not the tubes that you hate so much

Originally Posted by Choker

I make 10.3 cents per click from text links under full lenght movies, 2.5 from text links under 2 minute long movies. My figures are accurate and this is from hundreds of thousands of clicks over a 9 month period

Originally Posted by PornNewz

This thread is hilarious. The only reason people like Choker sell traffic is because it isn't worth a shit. If it was, he wouldn't sell it.

Originally Posted by BV

I just can't stomach it yet. I'm not the "if you can't beat them join them type"

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Yeah, fucking right.

Same thing goes for those idiots at google. If their traffic was worth a shit they wouldn't be selling it either.

Originally Posted by BV

You may be a winner but for every dollar you make someone else has lost 100.

Originally Posted by FrozenJag

Well said...

Dont forget the more full length tubes there are the more content choker can sell.

Originally Posted by crockett

Wait a min, is this not the same Choker whom 6 months ago claimed that tube sites were great for selling everything but porn memberships. Now all of the sudden they are good for selling membership..



Sounds more like it's your usual every six month infomercial drama post looking for more business.. Lets not forget Choker sells traffic and content for tubes sites so he has a vested interest in claiming tube sites are great and all. Hence the reason he's pushing "full" length videos..

To claim tube sites were anything but great would be bad for Chokers biz.. Think about it, if it were an affiliate claiming this or a program owner then it would be a different story.

All you have to do is dig out his last post from 6 months ago to see he said then that tube sites suck for selling porn..

lol now all of the sudden they are great..

Originally Posted by PornNewz

This thread is hilarious. The only reason people like Choker sell traffic is because it isn't worth a shit. If it was, he wouldn't sell it.

Originally Posted by BV

my sites convert fine, ( i can prove it)
my traffic is way down because you have fucked things up with sites like yours: http://www.thesextubesite.com/ (nice trades in there. your trades are trading with the stolen video tubes) i'm sure you know that though. Nice way to go....

You alone have fucked a good percent of this market up. I hope your fucking happy. It was so easy for you to infect and introduce the TGP/MGP surfers to SEXTUBES, hahaha

You may be a winner but for every dollar you make someone else has lost 100.

And watch out for Shap, he wants your sextube! or he did. How did that go over anyways? Fill us in.

PS:
I'd be happy to post screen shots and conversion ratios to show you that my sites convert between 1:50 & 1:500 from most affiliates.

And that's first page unique clicks! with full price membership and no trial!

Zero upsells anywhere.

Almost no one can say that.

I will survive.

Originally Posted by PornNewz

Nah, no comparison between the 2, but nice try.

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

THIS is the real problem most people have with tubes.

They're not fucking up "the market", they're fucking up your personal business.

But why should they care? Why would the owner of a business give a flying fuck how his business negatively affects his competition?

You can say "oh well they'd make 10 times as much if they didn't give thus and so away", but that's not true.
They wouldn't have the amount of traffic they do, not even 1/10th of the traffic they do, if they had just started another TGP or MGP.

So they came in with a new business model, stole a shit pot full of your traffic and sales, and now you're all boo hooing and trying to play the morality card or some shit....instead of admitting that you just got lazy, set in your ways, and got beat.

Now you can get with the times and survive, or you can keep crying about how great things used to be before the big bad tubes moved your cheese, and starve.

It's your dime.

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Dude talking to you is like trying to nail jello to the wall.

You really and truly have no idea what you're talking about. When it comes to how things are today, or how things were 2, 5, and 8 years ago, you're clueless.

Sponsors don't control shit. They pay for joins. That's all.

They have always kowtowed to the wants and needs of the people who had the traffic.

Period.

There were some who refused to take TGP traffic at one time. Said they were ruining the industry by giving away free content. They even offered higher payouts to people with TGP2 traffic.
All of those sponsors are gone now.

The ones who are still around, are the ones who catered to the needs of the big traffic sites of the time.

As for the second part of your misguided statement.....I'm not the one who said "sites that give away MORE FREE CONTENT are converting better", that was Choker.
I don't have access to his numbers so I can't say one way or another.

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

THIS is the real problem most people have with tubes.

They're not fucking up "the market", they're fucking up your personal business.

But why should they care? Why would the owner of a business give a flying fuck how his business negatively affects his competition?

You can say "oh well they'd make 10 times as much if they didn't give thus and so away", but that's not true.
They wouldn't have the amount of traffic they do, not even 1/10th of the traffic they do, if they had just started another TGP or MGP.

So they came in with a new business model, stole a shit pot full of your traffic and sales, and now you're all boo hooing and trying to play the morality card or some shit....instead of admitting that you just got lazy, set in your ways, and got beat.

Now you can get with the times and survive, or you can keep crying about how great things used to be before the big bad tubes moved your cheese, and starve.

It's your dime.

Originally Posted by PornNewz

Nah, no comparison between the 2, but nice try.