Twistys.com

[chickahoona]

A long time I promoted Twistys.com with pleasure. Alot of new content, nice support and so on...

But then I clicked around and discovered their "No Xsell" pps link:

h**p://secure.twistys.com/track/chickahoona;182101:noxsell25:twistys/

I was surprised when a popup loaded

h**p://girls.twistys.com/console/ConP/

which actually shows thumbs with links to other affiliate programs. Sry if I may be wrong but I actually thaught that "NO Xsell" meanst that they will NOT show the ads of other affiliate programms. I also thaught that this may be a fault of some of their coders and failures happen and so I messaged Lisa my account manager:

Originally Posted by Lisa

Session Start (153454841:Twistys Lisa): Sat Sep 12 13:19:48 2009
[13:19] *** NOTE: This user is offline. Your messages will be received when he/she logs into ICQ.
[13:23] chickahoona: ... always thaught that Twistys is one of the good affiliate programs but I think I am mistake...
[13:24] chickahoona: I looked around and tried your $25 No Cross sell Link
[13:25] chickahoona: I was surprised when a popup loaded
[13:25] chickahoona: which actually shows thumbs with links to other affiliate programs
[13:26] chickahoona: Sry if I may be wrong but I actually thaught that "NO Xsell" meanst that you will NOT show the ads of other affiliate programms
[13:27] chickahoona: I hope for you that you didnt know about this and will fix it really fast!
[13:31] chickahoona: if you do this with "normal" links is already shady but doing this with an explicit "No Cross Sell" link would be a reason for me to stop any further collaboration, a take down of all your links/ads, writing topics on several webmaster boards and so on...
[19:51] *** You have been disconnected. Sat Sep 12 19:51:41 2009.
Session Close (Twistys Lisa): Sun Sep 13 02:54:54 2009


Session Start (153454841:Twistys Lisa): Mon Sep 14 17:10:26 2009
[17:10] Twistys Lisa: Hello Sasha ... are you there?
[17:10] chickahoona: yes...
[17:11] Twistys Lisa: ... regarding your message, no xsell means no cross sell is offered to your surfers
[17:12] Twistys Lisa: we do not have a pay per signup no exit program.
[17:12] Twistys Lisa: We're really sorry for any misunderstanding! We're removing exits from your account so you will not have any popups or cross sells with that link
[17:13] chickahoona: sry Im not sure if I understand you right. You load a popup on a tour with was meant to be "No xsell" and within this popup you do Cross sells
[17:14] chickahoona: so am I wrong or are you kidding me....
[17:14] chickahoona: its nothing about "exit consoles" or so
[17:14] chickahoona: its about "NO XSELL"
[17:15] chickahoona: No XSell means NO Xsell no matter if its directly on the page or within a popup which loads with the page
[17:16] chickahoona: its already shady to do so but most of the webmasters accepted the fact that affiliate programms do Xsells but doing it on a tourpage which is explicit meant to be free of xsell is....... dont find the words to describe this
[17:21] Twistys Lisa: Sasha we're not here to mislead and I think that's where the misunderstanding lies.
[17:21] chickahoona: do you load a popup (with xsells) on a no xsell tourpage or not?
[17:22] chickahoona: its simple enough. fix it
[17:22] Twistys Lisa: We do not intend to mislead and have removed the exits for you.
[17:22] chickahoona: only for me?
[17:22] Twistys Lisa: We only have pop ups on our pps program.
[17:23] chickahoona: yes. and also on your No Xsell pps programm
[17:23] chickahoona: im sure you understand me...
[17:25] Twistys Lisa: and it is your revshare with trail program which has been successful for you, yes?
[17:25] chickahoona: yes for me
[17:26] chickahoona: but I also care for the rest of the webmaster...
[17:26] chickahoona: who use the pps "no xsell" link
[17:26] Twistys Lisa: a program that converts well and offers a full, no limits trial.
[17:26] chickahoona: and doing shady with webmaster is not worth to be promoted.
[17:27] chickahoona: sry if you dont understand me but Im annoyed to discuss this in here. If you dont want to change it ill let the webmasters decide and post this on some webmaster boards...
[17:28] Twistys Lisa: we offer solid customer service here at Twistys.
[17:28] chickahoona: ...
[17:28] chickahoona: what does this has to do with your "webmasters ripping off"
[17:29] chickahoona: policy
[17:29] chickahoona: No Xsell means No Xsell.
[17:29] chickahoona: that means NO Xsell popups on a NO Xsell tourpage
[17:29] chickahoona: if you cannot understand this then im sorry...

I also had a discussion with Shap, the owner of Twistys.

Originally Posted by Shap

Session Start (153454841:320845000): Mon Sep 14 17:42:12 2009
[17:42] 320845000: Hi
[17:42] chickahoona: hi
[17:42] 320845000: How's it going?
[17:42] chickahoona: thanks im fine
[17:43] chickahoona: hope you too, whoever you are
[17:43] 320845000: I'm Shap. owner of Twistys.
[17:43] 320845000: Sorry i should have mentioned that
[17:44] chickahoona: hi shap, im sure Lisa talked to you and explained the situation
[17:44] 320845000: Actually I haven't talked to her yet. I heard you were upset so I thought I'd contact you directly
[17:44] 320845000: and see what's up
[17:44] 320845000: ;-)
[17:45] chickahoona: give me asec
[17:45] chickahoona: a sec
[17:45] 320845000: ok cool
[17:45] chickahoona: will copy you the interesting part
[17:45] chickahoona: [13:23] chickahoona: ... always thaught that Twistys is one of the good affiliate programs but I think I am mistake...
[13:24] chickahoona: I looked around and tried your $25 No Cross sell Link
[13:25] chickahoona: I was surprised when a popup loaded
[13:25] chickahoona: which actually shows thumbs with links to other affiliate programs
[13:26] chickahoona: Sry if I may be wrong but I actually thaught that "NO Xsell" meanst that you will NOT show the ads of other affiliate programms
[17:45] 320845000: Thanks
[17:45] 320845000: no xsell means no cross sale
[17:46] 320845000: Many affiliates do not like the idea of cross sales.
[17:46] 320845000: I understand that 100%. we run many free sites and send lots of joins to sponsors. we know what it's like
[17:46] chickahoona: I know, i dont like it myself but I accepted that you do. therefor you have your noxsell link
[17:47] 320845000: we've always valued our members and treat them like gold. we were very slow to add cross sales and when we did we watched it closely to make sure it didn't have a negative impact.
[17:47] 320845000: so we have the no xsell option
[17:47] 320845000: but in terms of pop ups and sending to other sponsors that really usually isn't an issue
[17:47] 320845000: especially with a pps program.
[17:47] chickahoona: sorry for me its an issue and I think for many other webmasters too
[17:47] chickahoona: No Xsell means No Xsell
[17:48] chickahoona: no matter if its in a popup
[17:48] chickahoona: or directly on the page
[17:48] 320845000: to be honest we've never had an issue with pop ups on a pps program
[17:48] chickahoona: popups on a pps page is fine
[17:48] chickahoona: popups with xsells on a noxsell tourpage is shady
[17:48] 320845000: no xsell means no cross sale.
[17:48] 320845000: i think you are misunderstanding the terms. i've never heard anybody refer to a link on a pop as a cross sale
[17:49] 320845000: i don't see how it's shady.
[17:49] chickahoona: if thats what you think im sure you are not concerned about some threads on several webmasterboards like gfy / iq69 ...
[17:50] chickahoona: let the other webmasters choose if they think that its shady or not
[17:50] 320845000: absolutely. all i ask if you let me know which boards you post it on so I can post there as well
[17:50] 320845000: in fact i'll do one better.
[17:50] 320845000: i'll post on gfy right now about it. and send you the link. cool?
[17:51] chickahoona: sure. will take the part on the other boards
[17:51] 320845000: I really think you are misunderstanding how the general public perceives no xsell to be
[17:51] chickahoona: Noxsell means for me that no ads leading to other advertisers is loaded
[17:52] 320845000: It doesn't mean that to me
[17:52] 320845000: it means no cross sales

so choose yourself if you want to promote this programm any longer...

[Shap]

I'd love to know when posting private icq conversations became accepted.

Also my understanding is No Xsell = No Crosssale. Not no popup and not no links to other sites on a popup. Did I miss a memo where No Xsell became something else?

[hypedough]

Drama alert, seat taken.

[dyna mo]

i don't understand? what's the complaint?

[Shap]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i don't understand? what's the complaint?

Exactly my point. He is posting Twistys on the shitllist and cheaters section of multiple forums slandering the hell out of us.

[Juicy D. Links]

Originally Posted by chickahoona

so choose yourself if you want to promote this programm any longer...

idiot


--------

[DonovanTrent]

You're mistaking exit pops with cross sales, there's a huge difference.

The term "cross sale" ONLY applies to an offer that is on the billing company's join page, typically something like "Get access to a 3 day trial of BlahBlahBlahPass." Box next to it is either unchecked or pre-checked, with details below as to how much the customer will get charged if they don't cancel within the trial period. Your traffic only sees these if they are in the process of actually joining the site, they are add-on sales that you typically don't get credit for.

Exit pops are just a method of trying to still sell something to a person who is leaving the site without joining. Whether or not you get paid on these, and whether or not a separate "no exit pops" tour is available for affiliates to send traffic to, depends from program to program.

There's a major difference between the two and you're getting them confused. I don't see any problem with what Twistys is doing, nor do I see a problem with their response.

Edited to add: Shap is correct. You've been a member here since Oct 2007, so even though this is your first post, I'm assuming you've at least been reading. Posting private IM conversations is really looked down upon here and is usually a last resort.

[Juicy D. Links]

Originally Posted by chickahoona

But then I clicked around and discovered their "No Xsell" pps link:

Learn what a Xsale is and what a Upsell is first dumbass


Gfy Idiot level on Mondays is at level 8

[CamJack]

The only thing this tells me is don't take the time out of my day to help an affiliate (often after business hours and weekends) because they will cut and paste it on gfy. A popup is not a cross sale.

Are there any real webmasters left out there?
Honest mistake (technically not a mistake though) on twistys part. No big deal.
Posting an icq conversation is shitty.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Shap

Exactly my point. He is posting Twistys on the shitllist and cheaters section of multiple forums slandering the hell out of us.

Originally Posted by DonovanTrent

You're mistaking exit pops with cross sales, there's a huge difference.

The term "cross sale" ONLY applies to an offer that is on the billing company's join page, typically something like "Get access to a 3 day trial of BlahBlahBlahPass." Box next to it is either unchecked or pre-checked, with details below as to how much the customer will get charged if they don't cancel within the trial period. Your traffic only sees these if they are in the process of actually joining the site, they are add-on sales that you typically don't get credit for.

Exit pops are just a method of trying to still sell something to a person who is leaving the site without joining. Whether or not you get paid on these, and whether or not a separate "no exit pops" tour is available for affiliates to send traffic to, depends from program to program.

There's a major difference between the two and you're getting them confused. I don't see any problem with what Twistys is doing, nor do I see a problem with their response.

Edited to add: Shap is correct. You've been a member here since Oct 2007, so even though this is your first post, I'm assuming you've at least been reading. Posting private IM conversations is really looked down upon here and is usually a last resort.

that's what i thought too, but it was so obvious, that even i noticed. so i concluded that couldn't be right! hah.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by geoGUERILLA

The only thing this tells me is don't take the time out of my day to help an affiliate (often after business hours and weekends) because they will cut and paste it on gfy.

I was pretty shocked that he did that.

[BestXXXPorn]

Originally Posted by Shap

Exactly my point. He is posting Twistys on the shitllist and cheaters section of multiple forums slandering the hell out of us.

There's a big difference between prechecked cross sales and popups / exit consoles...

I couldn't be happier with Twistys as a sponsor, they track every click I've sent (tiny margin of error), I asked my rep (Lisa) about removing prechecked cross sales and three weeks later it was there. Twistys is also the only sponsor to offer me review site discounts even though I'm not sending them a lot of traffic right now, but it lets me stay competitive. These gestures have gone a long way to making Twistys far and away one of the top sponsors in my book. Lisa, my account rep has been the most responsive and helpful rep out of any of the 100+ of sponsors I've signed up with.

I can't say enough good about them! So stop slandering a great sponsor because of your misunderstanding of terminology...

Thanks

[closer]

already answered

[mikeyddddd]

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Shap

I was pretty shocked that he did that.

can you get one of those fancy *this icq is intended for the recipient only, any reproduction is grounds for <insert legal mumbo jumbo here>* comments?

like the email one?

[Shap]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

can you get one of those fancy *this icq is intended for the recipient only, any reproduction is grounds for <insert legal mumbo jumbo here>* comments?

like the email one?

I like that LOL I can just image that huge disclaimer on every icq msg LOL

[Lace]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

can you get one of those fancy *this icq is intended for the recipient only, any reproduction is grounds for <insert legal mumbo jumbo here>* comments?

like the email one?

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Shap

I like that LOL I can just image that huge disclaimer on every icq msg LOL

you can hide it under the *send* button.


I KEED I KEED!

[Voodoo]

Originally Posted by Shap

Exactly my point. He is posting Twistys on the shitllist and cheaters section of multiple forums slandering the hell out of us.

Technically libel.

[Barefootsies]

[~Ray]

twisty's , try linking the images in your rss feeds to that model's landing page. The pics in the rss feeds are already big, so if they want to see more, have them land on that model's landing page. It will also help with deep linking for SEO purposes.

Try it for a week and see if sales increase. I'm sure ratios will take a hit... but it's about sales.

[chickahoona]

I have to apologize. Im now two years in this business and never learned that there is a difference with xsell / upsell.

Can someone close / delete this thread? thanks.

[grumpy]

one question

does he get a percentage of the sales made in that popup?

[Shap]

Originally Posted by grumpy

one question

does he get a percentage of the sales made in that popup?

It's a PPS Program.

[fuzebox]

Originally Posted by Shap

I'd love to know when posting private icq conversations became accepted.

Also my understanding is No Xsell = No Crosssale. Not no popup and not no links to other sites on a popup. Did I miss a memo where No Xsell became something else?

Ignore the guy, he obviously is confused and doesn't understand some basic paysite terms and webmaster concepts.

edit: ah I see

Originally Posted by chickahoona

I have to apologize. Im now two years in this business and never learned that there is a difference with xsell / upsell.

Can someone close / delete this thread? thanks.

[Semi-Retired-Dave]

Originally Posted by chickahoona

I have to apologize. Im now two years in this business and never learned that there is a difference with xsell / upsell.

Can someone close / delete this thread? thanks.

You should Apologize to Shap. He took his valuable time to help you understand something, then you took the Private Conversion you had with him to a Very Public Board and put up your thoughts about something you knew nothing about that was wrong. What happened to morals and professionalism.

[Ramster]

Straight forward.

A popup selling other programs is NOT a cross sell. Twistys is doing nothing wrong there.

[Sands]

Yo dawg, I put xsells in your consoles so you can earn while you earn.

[JustDaveXxx]

Originally Posted by CyberAge-Dave

You should Apologize to Shap. He took his valuable time to help you understand something, then you took the Private Conversion you had with him to a Very Public Board and put up your thoughts about something you knew nothing about that was wrong. What happened to morals and professionalism.

OUCH!! but so true. Thats why this one kinda stings a bit.


Private ICQ's on the boards is kinda lame.

[andrej_NDC]

Wow, I didn't think this is a 2009 thread. First I thought it must be from 2001 or so. lol

[alias]

Backfire fail #2 for the day.

[Adraco]

Twisty's is a stand up company and has always been easy to deal with. Had several questions back when I started and Twistys Tim solved them all, even before I had sent a single hit, less a single sale.

Learn to do things right and I'm sure Twistys will take you on, but don't come around crying like you were heavily mistreated. They even escalated the matter for you, and how do you repay the courtesy? By slandering them back! A real apology would be in order, you come in here and talk bad about their business - please don't.

[TheStout]

Originally Posted by Shap

I'd love to know when posting private icq conversations became accepted.

Also my understanding is No Xsell = No Crosssale. Not no popup and not no links to other sites on a popup. Did I miss a memo where No Xsell became something else?

Shap hit me up when you get a chance

[l0lf4c3]

Originally Posted by grumpy

one question

does he get a percentage of the sales made in that popup?

nail.

anyhow, the point is still there, no matter what shit its called. all spotted how the program owners and reps were bashing the guy? guess what. its called traffic leak. any better?




EDIT: exit console = ok, popup = traffic leak

That Twistys Lisa is excellent. Very professional and kept her cool against an idiot affiliate.
You should give her a raise.

[DonovanTrent]

Originally Posted by l0lf4c3

nail.

anyhow, the point is still there, no matter what shit its called. all spotted how the program owners and reps were bashing the guy? guess what. its called traffic leak. any better?

Only bashing I saw was after a private conversation was posted, and apparently posted on other boards. Nothing in the private conversation looks out of order to me. Sorry, I'm on Shap's side on this one.

[Fletch XXX]

LOL

[l0lf4c3]

Originally Posted by DonovanTrent

Only bashing I saw was after a private conversation was posted, and apparently posted on other boards. Nothing in the private conversation looks out of order to me. Sorry, I'm on Shap's side on this one.

i didnt say i agree with what the guy did.

[KickAssJesse]

Originally Posted by teh ghey

That Twistys Lisa is excellent. Very professional and kept her cool against an idiot affiliate.
You should give her a raise.

Seriously...

[Loch]

Originally Posted by chickahoona

I have to apologize. Im now two years in this business and never learned that there is a difference with xsell / upsell.

Can someone close / delete this thread? thanks.

It took you 2 years to figure that one out?

If anything this thread is a testament to shaps/twistys support and understanding.

so i guess at the end of the day chickaboohoo he should thank you for the good marketing you fracking idiot!


To all sponsors out there, block his account....save yourself the trouble

[incredibleworkethic]

Twisty's, you're still a'ok with us. I feel bad for you guys.

Before you post something, please ask around with other webmasters before jumping to conclusions. Mistake or not, Twisty's is now associated with negative feedback.

[ToplistBlog_Com]

I can't believe he posted that ICQ... that's pretty shitty whether you're new or not.

[Smiley]

twistys will always be associated with nothing but excellance in my book...regardless of a n00b....yeah posting any IM conversation is right up there with foolish West stealing thunder from the winner of an award...

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by IsItWorthJoining-com

Twisty's is now associated with negative feedback.

I would say the opposite. Everyone who reads the icq convo will now like twistys even more.

[split_joel]

shap and twistys may be fun to jokely fuck around with from time to time, this thread is just dumb, they were nice and clearly explained the situation to you and posted a private conversation here on gfy.

This thread makes you look like a bigger idiot then I come off to be in half my threads.

[Exotic Gold]

Originally Posted by Sands

Yo dawg, I put xsells in your consoles so you can earn while you earn.

fucking awesome.

[AaliyahLove]

LOL so if he went around posting this on all of the boards did he also go back to each board and apologize? I'm rly surprised he didn't apologize directly to Shap..

[raymor]

Dittos on the "twistys is good" comments. Good people to work with. Of course
mostly we like them because they go around saying good stuff about us. ;)

Looking at both sides, I can understand chickahoona's confusion and I salute him
for apologizing. I've seen a LOT of people be proven wrong on this board and others,
but damn few apologize.

[Eric]

Thread closed at the request of the thread starter