iameros

Exactly. It reallly is quite classic isn't it. The provider fucks up, the provider makes a promise, the provider doesn't deliver on his promise but the customer is wrong. You have to laugh at the absurdity.

__________________
Email: iameros01 at gmail (.) com
ICQ: 558960278

RazorSharpe

Just started reading this thread and this was my exact thought! This Falcon chap has not once denied offering him the remainder of the work for free, he has not once denied having written the email that was presented on the first page where he says he will give this guy the rest of the work for free so pray tell, why is everyone posting in this thread seeing it differently from me. Falcon has reneged and this is precisely what the OP is upset about. Does getting his money back and a few posts (which incidentally he got because there's not really any way for Falcon to have taken them back after he's sent them) automatically mean the OP is an idiot or greedy for having a "reasonable" (key word here) doubt as to Falcon's credibility AFTER Falcon made a commitment that he did not honour? I think not and any of you that feel differently have blinkers on.

I believe it was Falcon himself that wanted to "expand on the restaurant analogy" and the OP did well to bring that into the proper context so I don't need to. Looking at this situation based on the provided analogy will perhaps make more of you see this situation more clearly regardless of whether you have had great dealings with Falcon for years.

I don't know either party but sometimes it's important to point out FACT from FICTION even if it means flying in the face of popular opinion and making a few people upset. The fact is that Falcon reneged and as long as he does not dispute this fact (he hasn't for 3 pages so far) then regardless of other facts, I feel the OP is not being unreasonable.

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iameros

The point is not that he made a mistake. I accepted that. The point here is that he didn't keep is work on how he was going to make good.

You know what's really ironic. When Falcon first contacted me back he didn't offer me the free posts, just a refund and I accepted that. In fact this is the mail I sent back to him;

Then he emailed me back and said this

A week later I have not heard back from him. When I do contact him. His opening line was "i've changed my mind".

This is the issue. John went back on his word and didn't even think to let me know.
I hope that this clears it up for some of the posters here who keep thinking that the issue has to do with the incorrect posts being writting. Sure that was annoying but it's not the issue.

__________________
Email: iameros01 at gmail (.) com
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MoreMagic

Absolutely falcon fucked up and supposed to keep his promise. But to be this greedy about it.

iameros

I appreciate your comments and am very pleased to see that there are people on this board who can clearly see that the provider did not stick to his word.

__________________
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J. Falcon

I was going to send him the complete work, but when he starting making threats about trying to ruin me on GFY I considered the matter closed.Even though I paid him back every single penny he still made threats about contacting his lawyer. Besides, he had already gotten all his money back and then some, plus half the work for free. If I indeed messed up the order and did the wrong posts, then why would he want the remaining posts, especially if they were useless to him? At that point it just felt very shady and perhaps I was being taken advantage of. I tried to resolve this offline, but this guy wanted to bring it here.

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L-Pink

So J Falcon admitted his companies mistake, promptly refunded ALL money, allowed you to keep what was usable at no charge. Right?

Shut the fuck up and move on. You were treated more than fairly as far as business disagreements go.


.

RazorSharpe

Hi MoreMagic,

You're missing the point mate. The OP is not disgruntled about Falcon messing up the order (or whatever it was), he is in fact upset that after messing up Falcon made promises.
1. Promise to refund you your money
2. Promise to let you keep the posts I have already sent you
3. Promise to finish and deliver to you the posts that are remaining

The OP did not ask for ALL of these promises; these were made by Falcon as a means of rectifying his own mistake.

Falcon then decides to change his mind about promise #3 but DOES NOT convery his change of heart to the OP. When the original poster asks about it he is met with abuse (allegedly).

The OP is upset (not greedy) that Falcon changed his mind about a promise and instead of contacting him to let him know he waited till the OP contacted him and was then belligerent (allegedly).

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iameros

Be very careful now Falcon as you're outright lying. I wil post one by one our comments from ICQ. I never started threatening you until you told me that you had changed your mind. When you started calling me a piece of shit, I warned you with legal action.

Also, I DID NOT GET HALF THE WORK FOR FREE, I got 20 posts I ordered for free. Of course I could use the others, I've never disputed that.

You did not try resolve this offline, you resorted to abuse. How does that resolve things.

Now that you're bullshiting, your true colors are starting to show.

__________________
Email: iameros01 at gmail (.) com
ICQ: 558960278

Quagmire

All the 'he said, she said' aside, if you'd just followed through on your original offer, he would have absolutely no leg to stand on, and nobody would have listened to him. Nobody gives a shit that you made a mistake. We ALL make mistakes. You're entitled to make them like everyone else.

As it sounds now, it makes you look like a guy who will fly off the handle and not follow through on promises if you don't see eye to eye and get in to an argument with a customer.

Just my two cents is all.

__________________

J. Falcon

Well I could have well not paid him back and claimed that his instructions were very vague, which they were. Instead I not only paid him back all his money, I paid him the fees as well, and I gave him work for free. How many companies here would have acted as I did? How many companies return money with no questions asked?

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iameros

Now my instructions were very vague. Ok Falcon, just for you here is the original email I sent with the attachment.

yeah, very vague instructions.

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iameros

You're now disputing you messed up the order? Come on man, you're getting desperate now. Now you're trying to act as if you never even made a mistake. Now that's pathetic.

__________________
Email: iameros01 at gmail (.) com
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iameros

Come on Falcon, I'm calling you out! Let's debate this openly if you belive you were not in the wrong.

I ask again. Are you disputing you made a mistake?

__________________
Email: iameros01 at gmail (.) com
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Quagmire

Hey, not questioning that at all. What you did was in fact standup and a great business practice to keep a customer happy. The only problem is you didn't follow through on one part of the promise, which ends up souring the whole situation. That is all I am saying about it.

I'm not saying you're a dirty crook, and in all honesty I have a habit of telling people to go fuck their hat myself. But the reality of that is, it isn't good business to be doing that. You ended up giving him a reason to go to the boards.

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fris

hah, laywer over free posts, ya that would dig you in a hole thousands of dollars

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iameros

Hey Falcon, no more sharp retorts? Have you run out of excuses? If you are so convinced you did the right thing, then why not have the balls to debate this openly instead of sending me harassing emails?

__________________
Email: iameros01 at gmail (.) com
ICQ: 558960278

iameros

That's true, it would be waste of time and effort and only the lawyers would win in the end, as is usually the case.

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EscortBiz

I worked with falcon for a long time, hes solid and can be trusted even with complex data entry and writing needs, like every company some people will not like you for one reason or another, and some people regardless of what will not be happy.

I do not know all the details and dont care to know, my post is intended for one thing only and that is to reassure people here that falcon is good and can be trusted.

It's sad that this one guy wont stop the madness

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iameros

What's said is when Falcon simply won't come out and admit four things;

1. He made a mistake.
2. He promised compensation.
3. He did not deliver on all of his compensation.
4. He did not bother to let the customer know that he was not going to deliver on what he promised.

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Email: iameros01 at gmail (.) com
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TheDoc

Exactly... missed a deadline, refunded the money AND got some compensation... that's more than going above the call of duty.


Iameros, you're crying about the rest of the compensation, when you should have only taken the refund and now YOU should pay for the work he did do either way...

You are screwing him over.... not the other way around.

__________________

Sausage

Generally when a writer has to troll a board like this looking for work, that is a bad sign. ACW is all over GFY, whereas other writers i know who charge even more seem to have a never ending supply of work and even have to knock some back from time to time.

In all fairness though when I did try ACW, the text was delivered on time and while it was fairly average and the directions werent followed all that well, i have had much worse. Good writers are very very hard to find, and almost always fully booked.

magpan

Wow, nice to see that someone called BS here. And, leave it to Quagmire to do it. I'm not saying that Falcon is a crook either, probably far from it. But, for those of you who are saying that the OP is 'being greedy' or that Falcon's response was 'above the call of duty' and that the OP should move on, you are obviously not reading. Really, go back to Post #1, take your time this time, and read. The OP didn't ask Falcon for all of the concessions mentioned, Falcon offered them. He delivered on two, he did not deliver on one. Falcon's 3 concessions for the fuck up were certainly above the 'call of duty,' yes. But, he did not deliver all of them.

If it was me, I was offered these concessions (and, I accepted without changing service providers (which I would have, after the initial fuck up)), and I was inconvenienced for the time, lost business (due to missing content, assuming that that was the case), etc... I would be a little bit 'tiffed' as well. I'm not saying that it warrants a board post. But, when I respond to these threads I always keep this in mind: If it was me in someone like Falcon's current position and I promised any one of you something and didn't deliver, you would be all over my ass like DirtyD. So, how does Falcon warrant anything different and how is the OP at fault (other than taking this to a board instead of dealing with it directly before trying to hijack someone's rep)?

@Falcon - The point has been made by a few here: If you would have delivered the posts, as you promised, the OP wouldn't have a leg to stand on. But, you didn't. So, it seems that there will have to be a resolution and that involves either side of this dispute coming up with a plan.

My , only.

iameros

This response falls into the category of "You should be happy with what you got" or "You're luck you got what you did". That is, according to these posters, it doesn't matter what Falcon promised, you should tuck your tail between your legs and be grateful.

Not to get philosophical about this, but is this some inherint guilt about the industry we're in? Like you expect to get screwed over and not treated the same as if you were in some so called "mainstream" business?

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Email: iameros01 at gmail (.) com
ICQ: 558960278

iameros

I did try and sort this out with Falcon offline. I contacted him via ICQ and in a very cvil way tried to get to the bottom of this but this soon detoriated into verbal abuse by Falcon.

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iameros

Absolutely true

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TheDoc

The category is... YOU got your money back and then some... and now you're bitching about not getting more free labor.

At the end of the day you got 130% but you want 200%... welcome to greed.

YOU never got screwed over, you should stop pretending that you did. Maybe pay for the work you took from him, labor you did not pay on.

That's truly fucked up...

__________________

EscortBiz

In the past few years on GFY the following has been posted over and over

Good SEO guys dont take on clients
Good programmers are too busy for more work
Solid web designers are all backlogged

And now Good writers wont be looking for work

Whats next, good converting paysites wont take on new signups?

I watched a interview with one of madoffs victims, she said that many of the good stock brokers would call her and try to get her account, she always turned them away, but then she heard madoff isnt taking on new clients so she started chasing him until he agreed to manage her money.

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iameros

You really can't be that obtuse can you. How on earth did I get %130 when I didn't get the work I asked for !!

"Pay him for the work I took from him...." He gave me the posts and offered more. Or did you miss that in your rush to take a position without understanding all the facts.

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Email: iameros01 at gmail (.) com
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magpan

Wow, Doc --- you must be delusional. Falcon OFFERED something, the OP depended on it until finding out (after the fact) that the promise wasn't coming through (not to mention the correct original work in the first place, so Falcon actually fucked up TWICE), and you are saying that he is being 'greedy.' Where do you buy your crack pipe and smoke? If Falcon wasn't going to deliver on his promise, he did nothing short of lie to his client. He shouldn't have offered in the first place. How in the fuck is that the OP's fault?

For a former Marine, man, I'm surprised. I spent a shit load of time with your guys in Anbar and one thing I know is that you guys hate lies, cheats, and thieves. Where'd you go wrong? You're defending the wrong side (unless Falcon's hoop is your playground).

Longboat full of Vikings

J. Falcon looks like a total asshole here.

Fucked up the guy's order and then acting all uppity.

RazorSharpe

Not sure if you made this up or if it's widely used but i've never heard this before and i like it. Mind if i borrow it? Sans the Falcon part of course ....

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Mock NyaMout

Professional is not making a promise NO MATTER THE SIZE and then saying forget it.

Then using foul language is FAR from professional. Especially in the said situation.

You people must get good cock sucks from this guy.

__________________

Mock NyaMout

looks like abuse of power. You know how egos go.

__________________

magpan

lol --- That was the first creative thing that came to mind when I thought of the term 'ass kisser' today (and, the context of the response). Feel free to use it at your leisure, I don't have a copyright.

iameros

LOL

Love your signature gif, that's very cool

__________________
Email: iameros01 at gmail (.) com
ICQ: 558960278

TheDoc

I was just going off what you said, and I quote "I realised he had delivered 105 gallery posts, but only 20 of them were one's that I had marked. So 85 incorrect ones in total."

If you got your money back + some work, that's more than 100%...

You got your money back and you got some work done, even if you don't use it... you still got your money back.

So at the end of the day, you didn't get fucked over at all.... basically Falcon dropped the ball on trying to make you happy so you would be a return client.

Are you really, truly, and impossibly, going to be that big of an asshole over that?

He fucked up... he made it better to the point that maters, nobody got screwed over, so move on, if you don't like his 'service' then don't use it again.

__________________

candyflip

The idiots have taken over.

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J. Falcon

I already mentioned that I could not have paid him back and argued that his instructions were vague and the spreadsheet he sent me a complete and utter mess. Yeah I promised him the other half of the work for free, but it occurred to me that he was taking advantage of me with all this. He had already gotten the money and 105 posts for free, his continuous threats about contacting his lawyer and ruining me on gfy made me change my mind.

Ask yourself how many companies would have refunded all the money, no questions asked? Think about all the drama here on gfy about people who keep the money and really tell the client to fuck off.

And to Sausage, who jumps in here just because he made one or two orders from me when we were just starting out 3 years ago, you honestly have no idea what you are talking about. We are not freelancers, we are a group of highly qualified writers and 90% of our clients come from GFY so though it may be difficult for you try and understand why we "troll" gfy as you put it. We have non-stop work sufficient for 4 writers. Do you think your freelancers or whoever the hell it you use can say the same?

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TheDoc

I'm sorry.. most Marines I know are ego driven assholes that want to control everything, and are trained to manipulate the situation to get the outcome they want.

Females give the biggest clues... they either have been manipulated and think they are golden studs (and we are!) or they got one drunk enough to expose the truth.

__________________

ShellyCrash

To iameros, you have to admit all bullshit aside, you are in the positive having all your money back and having work that has been done for free and J Falcon is in the negative being out man hours and paypal fees.

I think Falcon's mistake was offering to do additional work after already putting himself in the red on this. He over extended himself in the name of customer service, and by reneging on that created a bad experience for you. I understand that, I understand why you would feel disappointed, but seriously your reaction is way blown out of proportion.

You aren't out anything. You have all your money back and a pile of work- some you asked for and some you didn't, yet all usable by you as you have stated- so you have been more than compensated for your time. You haven't been burned by this deal in any way. I don't understand what your motivation is to create multiple board posts to try and tear his business down.

You want to compare adult to mainstream and say that we don't expect the same level of service or professionalism. Here's reality in any industry- client orders work and prepays for project, service provider begins work on project, work only partially completed, client at best receives partial refund.

Offering you a full refund and not taking anything for the work that was completed was above and beyond. Offering you even more was a mistake. I can understand why you'd have some sour grapes about that, but to be mad enough to bring it to the boards? And to keep trying to dump gasoline on the fire for days, creating new threads? I mean, come on, can you really say that in this deal YOU'RE the one who's been ripped off? What do you think you really deserve?

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J. Falcon

I'm starting to think that's what I really should have done.

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TheDoc

Depending on the situation, of course....

I knock my rate way down, and invoice for my time only. But before that, I try to upsell them another service and discount it as the benefit of my screw up. Think of it like a lawyer, you pay for the time either way. If they miss a deadline, you get a discount if you ask, but you still pay for the time either way - most will try to upsell you a discount on future work.

I also quit working with deadlines...I'm not a lawyer If client doesn't like it they can go to someone else that will give them one. I will give a range, but straight up sometimes clients have emergencies or big projects hold me up...and I just have to drop everything, whatever the job is for problems. It's a respect most people understand when it could be them asking one day for the same help.

__________________

iameros

I'm outright calling you a liar and the emails and comments posted above prove it. You did not decide to retract your offer after I made threats, that's bullshit. You changed your mind independtly before we talked again. You know that and try and prove otherwise.

I've also posted in this thread the email I sent in which there were very clear instructions and I'm sure anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see that. Now you're saying the spreadsheet was a mess. Oh my God, your excuses get more pathetic by the minute.

Here's a question. If the spreadsheet was such a mess and the instructions were so vague why did you not clarify them?

Come on Falcon, you're an amateur and a liar.

People, do you want to do business with a man who's clearly changed his tune a number of times in the same thread?

__________________
Email: iameros01 at gmail (.) com
ICQ: 558960278

iameros

Every step of the way in this thread I've backed up what I've said with emails. Falcon, if you're being honest, I urge you to back up what you've said with proof. If not, have the balls to admit you're a liar and a cheat.

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Email: iameros01 at gmail (.) com
ICQ: 558960278

ShellyCrash

Honestly, at this point the best thing you can do is just ignore him. It's clear he's not going to be reasonable about this and will drag this out with semantics until eternity.

No matter how professional or unprofessional the interaction between the two parties has been, or how unsatisfactory the experience was for client and service provider, the fact remains that at the end of the day iameros received product and service at no cost.

That's it, end of story.

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iameros

Three simple things;

1. An admission from John Falcon that he went back on his word.
2. A public apology for doing so.
3. An admission that he has bent the truth in this thread to make himself look better by claiming he changed his mind AFTER I started threatening him with legal action.

That's what I think I deserve.

__________________
Email: iameros01 at gmail (.) com
ICQ: 558960278

TheDoc

1) Quote: "Due to the fact that I admitted our mistake" and "I made a mistake" first page..
2) That isn't something for the public, it's something I'm SURE he apologized for in an email.
3) Kind of demanding aren't you? Why don't you admit that you skewed the situation?

__________________

J. Falcon

He doesn't give a crap about that. Next time he has trouble with someone they will not give him a dime back and then he will see what it's like to really deal with a cheat. I've been scammed several times by clients and even have one who has owed me $5,000 for 7 months and refuses to pay, but I don't come to crying to GFY.

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ShellyCrash

I have to disagree, you made this a public matter, not Falcon. Personally, I think he shouldn't have bothered to address you here at all, but if you feel anything he said in the course of this very public disagreement may have been damaging to you, I think you've opened yourself up to that by dragging out your dirty laundry for everyone to see and continually egging him on to get him to respond.

Personally, I have nothing invested in this, I don't know or have worked with either of you. I think your other post about this matter rubbed me the wrong way, when you imply that we have lower standards in this industry- especially when you base this upon a transaction that completely left you in the positive- I take it as you taking a piss on all of us.

I think you really need to realize that you really made out like a bandit here. Even if he took a shit and mailed it to you in a box, you are still walking away from a deal with something of value to your business essentially for nothing. You were refunded 100% of your payment.

It was a mistake for J Falcon to offer you more, and one should never go back on their word, but you are way too butt hurt over this transaction where you walked away completely victorious. Nothing he has done justifies you calling him a "cheat", you walked away with everything and left him with a deficit. Be happy with that.

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