Long time elevatedx customer fuming pissed with sites down by error

[necoeds]

I have been with elevatedx for about 10 years now.

THEIR BUSINESS MODEL IS TO GET YOU STUCK INTO THEIR SYSTEM, AND THEN HOLD A KNIFE TO YOUR THROAT EACH MONTH TO EITHER PAY QUICK OR YOUR SITES ARE DOWN. AND YOU HAVE NO OPTION JUST TO PAY A LITTLE AHEAD TO AVOID THIS HEADACHE

I have had an ongoing argument with them regarding their stranglehold that they keep on all of their customers.

TODAY THEY SHUT ALL OF MY SITES DOWN FOR 10 HOURS EVEN THOUGH I PAID MY BILL, LAST FRIDAY, 5 DAYS BEFORE A SHUT OFF DATE

These guys think it's better to shut down all of a customers websites, even if they are just 15 days late paying a bill. This is not what happened to me today, today was their mistake totally, but this has happened to me and many other sites over the years.

AJ, elevatedx owner, believes that all sites running his software are only happening because of his software. He has a total misconception and treats his customers as slaves, not as they actually are, partners.

I will not be continuing with their service after this shit. And I implore all of you to make a change from their shit billing practices as well, unless they finally fix this shit they do.



For those of you that are not familiar with how elevatedx bills. Here's how it works. They send you a bill for the next month. ONLY 1 WEEK BEFORE IT'S DUE. My January bill arrived December 22. With a warning that if not paid by January 15, the sites will be all shut down until payment is received.

3 years ago or so, they finally offered a late payment extension for a fee of 10% (20 dollars)... Which then gives you 15 more days to pay.

So the end result, for those of you considering to partner with elevatedx for your site design, is that you are NEVER more than 3 weeks away from having your entire company shut off. So this means if you take a 3 week cruise, and forget to pay before you leave, by the time you return, all your sites are down (happened to me 5 years ago)... or if you travel to some country like cuba, like i did last year, that has basically no internet access, and you're there for 3 weeks, like i was, when you get back, you might be shut off, like i was.

You are just always tied to paying them. On top of that, AJ has fought me tooth and nail and only has recently allowed me to pre-pay some 6 months or something to help ensure my sites never go down. I didn't end up paying the 6 month amount yet, because I wanted to wait and see how AJ treated me after I started a long email thread with him arguing for our customer rights from his company.



This needs to end today. AJ needs to at least give net 30 billing standards for his customers, and give warnings before being shut off (this time, as with last time, i received only one notice last week that i would be shut off, which was the same day that I paid the bill)

The reason AJ and elevatedx treats it's customers like this, is because AJ is worried about customers stealing his software, and never paying a bill. I DO NOT SEE HOW THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH A CUSTOMER LIKE ME THAT HAS BEEN WITH THEM FOR 10 YEARS DEALING WITH THIS BILLING BULLSHIT EVER 3-4 WEEKS.

His only answer to fix this, is for me to leave elevatedx, or to just give him my billing info so he can charge my card automatically each month. WHICH I SIMPLY WILL NEVER DO, BECAUSE THE TRUST HAS BEEN BROKEN SO MANY TIMES FROM THEM

I AM STUCK in elevatedx, but I do actually like their software. I assume AJ will not allow me to continue using his software now that I am going to the public boards. But this is a risk I just needed to finally take with this situation.

I hope that they change their billing practices, at least for those of us that have been with them for many years. Realize we all have real other lives, and some of us just pay all the bills ourselves and forget, or travel often and don't always think to pay.

I've never had any bill like this in my life.

Horrible Horrible Horrible

Jim Vanderslice
owner Nebraskacoeds.com Afterhoursexposed.com Eurocoeds.com

[k0nr4d]

To be honest - seems like all your issues could be resolved by giving him the billing info so the card rebills automatically... People pay bills like this all the time, and you can always dispute it with your bank if someone over bills you. As for monthly payments - hey, that's the nature of subscription based software. Using subscription based stuff reduces your initial investment since you don't have to buy software for a lot more, but in the long run becomes less worth it compared to buying software straight out.

[necoeds]

Yeah I'm not giving out my credit card info for monthly payments, not now, not ever.

But it's ok, I do see this point from people who offer software as a service.

This isn't a chance for companies like this to change the traditional relationship between supplier and client. And in this particular case, the issue was a human error, i'm sure, By the software company owner, AJ. Innocent mistake to be sure, but an innocent mistake that cost me almost a half day of business. And these companies, like it also seems yours, that charge for software on a monthly basis usually do not shut an entire account down for only being 15-30 days late. Which is exactly what Elevatedx does actually.

Really thank you for your point of view, it helps me understand the psychology behind such billing practices.

Jim

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

To be honest - seems like all your issues could be resolved by giving him the billing info so the card rebills automatically... People pay bills like this all the time, and you can always dispute it with your bank if someone over bills you. As for monthly payments - hey, that's the nature of subscription based software. Using subscription based stuff reduces your initial investment since you don't have to buy software for a lot more, but in the long run becomes less worth it compared to buying software straight out.

[OY]

Speaking from a software vendor perspective I can both understand your frustration, but also AJs stand on this.

Now, I also think this is a tad harsh, but on the flipside I can say that over the past 18 years with both charging license fees (Monthly, yearly, etc.) we have been burned MANY times by clients not paying, and all of a sudden just vanishing into thin air, money lost.

Clearly I have been way TOO nice with clients, and as such lost tons of money from that. BUT, I have stuck to my guns and been as lenient to my clients as possible, because of issues such as yours. (Too often way to lenient....)

Its a double-edged sword.

With that said, you are not stuck with EX, as you can for sure move all your stuff to i.e. MAS v.2 - Website Content Management System - and they will assist you with the move.

[necoeds]

Update on this problem:

AJ is a stand-up guy, and refunded my last months payment, because of the human error.

I never actually expected anything less.

Just I still have the old man style gripe about software sold as a service, in general. Remember, your clients, are your partners, not just customers. When you protect yourself from loss of revenue, at the cost of mutual respect and partnership from your good customers, you will in the end always lose.

Punishing your good customers due to the fact that you have some shitty customers doesn't make sense in any business. You only get away with it here, because many people give you auto rebill card information.

I just don't see why I should need to give my wallet to my landlord just because he's freaky weird about thinking I won't pay, and If i'm late, he just puts rent signs up and changes the locks.. or however this analogy should be written...

There is an applicable quote that comes to mind in this moment:

"Never treat your audience as customers, always as partners."
-Jimmy Stewart

[AJHall]

Regarding this issue:

Thankfully there wasn?t much downtime when this issue was discovered last night at midnight and our emergency SMS system paged everyone. Between 12am and 3am two techs replied to the support ticket first to fix it and then to fully explain what had happened. I was happy to see that response time and damage containment.

The problem stemmed from a payment being sent to a PayPal email address rather than via an invoice link or via our online payment form which resulted in a payment not credited to an account and no software license being updated accordingly.

I just disabled the ability to send direct payment via PayPal, which was an oversight when we changed our invoicing setup to include invoice numbers in payment links as well as require an invoice number on our web site?s manual payment form primarily to avoid this type of scenario.

Due to that I felt a refund was in order as a concession for the error.



Regarding late payments and billing practices:

Elevated X is a month to month software subscription with no contract period. If the software goes unpaid beyond the license period, it simply stops working just like products from Microsoft, Adobe and many other pay for use software subscriptions. As with most, we offer auto-pay as the best method of reducing the possibility of service interruptions due to nonpayment.

Our billing cycles run from the 1st of each month and invoices go out on the 20th for the next month, with payments due on the 1st.

There?s a 2-week late payment grace period that ends on the 15th.

An automated email reminder goes out around the 10th that says the software is set to expire on the 15th.

There?s an option for a user to click a link and extend their license to go a full 30 days late and pay a 10% late fee if they need to go beyond 15th and go a full month behind on payments.

We feel that users being able to go a full month late on payments is sufficient and have no plans to change our billing practices to allow clients to accrue multiple months of past due balances. Doing that would require us to allocated staff resources to handle collections rather than focus on providing support and making improvements to the product that benefit everyone.

Over the past 12 years Elevated X has been in operation, most of our clients have been okay with our billing practices. Most are happy with our software, its continual evolution, and having access to getting US based tech support staff out of bed in the middle of the night at no additional cost as part of the monthly subscription fee.

That said, we realize we are not perfect and are the first to admit to that. We also realize we are not the best fit for everyone?s needs, billing or otherwise. While it?s unfortunate, I always respect a customer?s decision to part ways if they feel we are not the best fit for them, which I hope is not the case here.

AJ

[Oracle Porn]

Originally Posted by AJHall

Regarding this issue:

Thankfully there wasn?t much downtime when this issue was discovered last night at midnight and our emergency SMS system paged everyone. Between 12am and 3am two techs replied to the support ticket first to fix it and then to fully explain what had happened. I was happy to see that response time and damage containment.

The problem stemmed from a payment being sent to a PayPal email address rather than via an invoice link or via our online payment form which resulted in a payment not credited to an account and no software license being updated accordingly.

I just disabled the ability to send direct payment via PayPal, which was an oversight when we changed our invoicing setup to include invoice numbers in payment links as well as require an invoice number on our web site?s manual payment form primarily to avoid this type of scenario.

Due to that I felt a refund was in order as a concession for the error.



Regarding late payments and billing practices:

Elevated X is a month to month software subscription with no contract period. If the software goes unpaid beyond the license period, it simply stops working just like products from Microsoft, Adobe and many other pay for use software subscriptions. As with most, we offer auto-pay as the best method of reducing the possibility of service interruptions due to nonpayment.

Our billing cycles run from the 1st of each month and invoices go out on the 20th for the next month, with payments due on the 1st.

There?s a 2-week late payment grace period that ends on the 15th.

An automated email reminder goes out around the 10th that says the software is set to expire on the 15th.

There?s an option for a user to click a link and extend their license to go a full 30 days late and pay a 10% late fee if they need to go beyond 15th and go a full month behind on payments.

We feel that users being able to go a full month late on payments is sufficient and have no plans to change our billing practices to allow clients to accrue multiple months of past due balances. Doing that would require us to allocated staff resources to handle collections rather than focus on providing support and making improvements to the product that benefit everyone.

Over the past 12 years Elevated X has been in operation, most of our clients have been okay with our billing practices. Most are happy with our software, its continual evolution, and having access to getting US based tech support staff out of bed in the middle of the night at no additional cost as part of the monthly subscription fee.

That said, we realize we are not perfect and are the first to admit to that. We also realize we are not the best fit for everyone?s needs, billing or otherwise. While it?s unfortunate, I always respect a customer?s decision to part ways if they feel we are not the best fit for them, which I hope is not the case here.

AJ

great reply and a great way to handle things, kudos.

[The Porn Nerd]

Seriously OP the problem is with YOU.

You have been in business for TEN YEARS and yet you do not understand how monthly billing for software licenses works? Come on now. And not wanting to give your credit card info for autopay? Total bush league. I won't tell you how to manage your business since the basics seem to escape you so it would be a waste of time.

What did I do when I had a choice to use software like Elevated X or create my own custom software? I created my own (and paid for it) thus avoiding your issues altogether. After TEN YEARS in the Biz it's time to enter the 21st Century and get your fucking ducks in a row instead of starting threads on GFY that paint you as a clueless, angry noob.

Happy fucking New Year.

[k0nr4d]

Originally Posted by necoeds

Yeah I'm not giving out my credit card info for monthly payments, not now, not ever.

But it's ok, I do see this point from people who offer software as a service.

This isn't a chance for companies like this to change the traditional relationship between supplier and client. And in this particular case, the issue was a human error, i'm sure, By the software company owner, AJ. Innocent mistake to be sure, but an innocent mistake that cost me almost a half day of business. And these companies, like it also seems yours, that charge for software on a monthly basis usually do not shut an entire account down for only being 15-30 days late. Which is exactly what Elevatedx does actually.

Really thank you for your point of view, it helps me understand the psychology behind such billing practices.

Jim

We don't bill anything monthly except for retainer clients, but I think it's wrong to think of a credit card as some like permanent key to your financial life. It's expendable, you can close the account at any time and can dispute anything with 7your bank anyways. AJ's not gonna bang your card and honestly, just get a prepaid one if you are worried about it. My bank offers virtual visas, I give out that number and just fund the account once in a while.

Also somewhat hypocritical to not want to give out your card for auto-paying, but expecting your members to give their cards to rebill on your paysites

[CurrentlySober]

Yes, it does seems a little strange that the OP doesn't want to give his card details in order to make a recurring payment, when his business model relies on other people giving their info to his site to be used in a recurring manner.

EDIT: As I notice k0nr4d has also posted above

[Rochard]

[QUOTE=necoeds;22143429]Yeah I'm not giving out my credit card info for monthly payments, not now, not ever.
/QUOTE]

You've been doing business with him for ten years and don't trust him?

[NatalieMojoHost]

Jim, I think you should try to work it out. Yes, this situation got you pissed off but really either the 6-month prepay or credit card billing will solve this, and you say you like the software so the only issue here is billing. In the world of instant payments, giving you 25 days from invoice to termination is not so bad at all. If you can't prepay or autopay, then you'll have to make it a point to do it monthly and put it on your to-do list next ot stuff like utility bills. Different companies do it in different ways, but those who'll be nice and friendly and wait for x amount of months are also losing a ton of money, which ends up hurting everyone involved as it gets reflected on their expenses and therefore influences price formation. I do not think AJ would attempt to bang your card and if you're worried about it just create a virtual one like Konrad suggested. It's really a simple matter to work out.

Very professional response, AJ!

Happy New Year and let's all get along

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

To be honest - seems like all your issues could be resolved by giving him the billing info so the card rebills automatically... People pay bills like this all the time, and you can always dispute it with your bank if someone over bills you. As for monthly payments - hey, that's the nature of subscription based software. Using subscription based stuff reduces your initial investment since you don't have to buy software for a lot more, but in the long run becomes less worth it compared to buying software straight out.

while agreeing it should solve the problem. I still feel to shut the sites down after just a week of non payment is a ridiculous way to run a business. What if you were ill in hospital, or some sort of other problem, shouldn´t any company such as elevatedx give a month notice, it´s no good having sites go down, customers leave and then more problems with lack of business

[AJHall]

Originally Posted by GspotProductions

while agreeing it should solve the problem. I still feel to shut the sites down after just a week of non payment is a ridiculous way to run a business. What if you were ill in hospital, or some sort of other problem, shouldn´t any company such as elevatedx give a month notice, it´s no good having sites go down, customers leave and then more problems with lack of business

Nothing gets shutoff after a week.

There's a 2 week late payment grace period. By that time, someone has had 25 days since their latest invoice invoice to pay their bill.

If someone extends their license to go a full month late, it means they have gone 40 days past their invoice without payment. Plus they have received another invoice and have 2 payments due: One for the past due balance and one for the current balance.

Typically during a period of 25 or 40 days, if someone is severely ill, injured, in a coma, deceased, etc., within that timeframe we learn of the news publicly, a common vendor such as a web host or payment processor tells us, or a friend/parent/child/spouse of the person will inform us of the situation and we give them whatever extension is needed.

I?ve been in this industry 18 years. Elevated X has been in business 12 years. Trust that we?ve had plenty of sick, injured and even a few deceased clients in that timeframe.

These kinds of problems only exist for people who refuse to pay their bills on time and/or who refuse to setup auto-pay either by check via their bank or by credit card online, which for us, thankfully, is less than 1% of our entire customer base. On our end it's a non-issue.

AJ