Tired of getting your sales stolen? - GoFuckYourself.com

JD · 03-14-2007, 01:23 PM

Then you need to contact the programs you push and tell them they need to file lawsuits against programs stealing traffic via spyware and other related products (Zango)

From another board

Quote:

what if McDonald's had people in front of Burger King, who'd grab visitors by the arm and drag them to their place, would BK file suit? It just seems to me that adult sponsors do not have enough brains to figure this out on their own.

Something needs to be done NOW or this shit will continue until affiliates are a thing of the past and programs just steal from other programs. Round and round we go...

All it takes is a class action lawsuit against a big program such as AFF...

fris · 03-14-2007, 01:25 PM

or someone could just own zangos servers and forward all traffic to www.hai2u.com

JD · 03-14-2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fris

or someone could just own zangos servers and forward all traffic to www.hai2u.com

wow... that'd be fucking sweet!

BradM · 03-14-2007, 01:30 PM

I don't mind zango. I just buy ads from them and steal back the sales they are stealing.

j/k.

JD · 03-14-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradM

I don't mind zango. I just buy ads from them and steal back the sales they are stealing.

j/k.

mmmmhmmm O_o

porno jew · 03-14-2007, 01:47 PM

adapt or die. the law of the jungle is still in effect.

JD · 03-14-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porno jew

adapt or die. the law of the jungle is still in effect.

troll. so who's fake nick are you?

JD · 03-14-2007, 02:25 PM

bump in the trunk

tranza · 03-14-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fris

or someone could just own zangos servers and forward all traffic to www.hai2u.com

That's just disgusting.....

DamageX · 03-14-2007, 03:49 PM

Fucker, you quoted me without giving me credit for iiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttt!!!!!!! You're soooooooooo bannnnnnnnnnneeeeeeeeeedddddddddd!!!!!!!

Sosa · 03-14-2007, 03:57 PM

porno jew is pry someone doing this fucking codec installing...

sperm I totaly agree with you. It is going to take us standing up as an industry to get some of this shit stopped.

DamageX · 03-14-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sosa

porno jew is pry someone doing this fucking codec installing...

sperm I totaly agree with you. It is going to take us standing up as an industry to get some of this shit stopped.

That's the problem actually, everyone thinks we ALL have to be together on fighting this one, but it doesn't really have to be the case. In reality, any sponsor getting their visitors hijacked at point-of-sale can file a suit against Zango and whoever bids on hijacking the visitor on their domain name. So all it takes is a few sponsors to file class action against these clowns and they're toast.

BVF · 03-14-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPeRMiNaToR

All it takes is a class action lawsuit against a big program such as AFF...

I'm sure that you'll do your part and take a lower payout to help pay for the lawsuit.

DamageX · 03-14-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVF

I'm sure that you'll do your part and take a lower payout to help pay for the lawsuit.

Thing is, if the lawsuit won't happen, sponsors themselves may end up taking considerable paycuts.

TheDoc · 03-14-2007, 04:18 PM

I think the every day webmaster should ban together, take time away from everything they do, spend the extra money and efforts, to fight spyware. It's your money, sales, and traffic..

Or do you really want someone else to spend the money and time to protect your money and traffic?

jact · 03-14-2007, 04:19 PM

I have something in the works, something very good for this whole situation...

DamageX · 03-14-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I think the every day webmaster should ban together, take time away from everything they do, spend the extra money and efforts, to fight spyware. It's your money, sales, and traffic..

Or do you really want someone else to spend the money and time to protect your money and traffic?

So how to you suggest that I, as an affiliate, file a suit against either Zango or their advertisers for hijacking traffic I send to any sponsor? What argument would you bring up in court, in order to explain the loss I am taking due to this?

DamageX · 03-14-2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jact

I have something in the works, something very good for this whole situation...

Is it a class action suit?

RawAlex · 03-14-2007, 04:23 PM

Adult Sponsors are relying on the old "beer and pussy at convention" defense, hoping that anyone with enough money to afford a lawyer in the right jurisdiction will be on their suckup list and they won't have to worry.

Sponsors knowingly paying for "stolen" or redirected surfers (especially now that Zango has paid a fine for misleading or downright fraudulent installs) are running a huge risk that someone will pop up and paper them over.

SPONSORS! WAKE UP! The alarm clock is going off, do something before someone does it for you, with teeth.

starpimps · 03-14-2007, 04:24 PM

zango will bend over and take it very soon

TheDoc · 03-14-2007, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamageX

So how to you suggest that I, as an affiliate, file a suit against either Zango or their advertisers for hijacking traffic I send to any sponsor? What argument would you bring up in court, in order to explain the loss I am taking due to this?

The problem is you don't know what Zango is. It's not spyware. It's legal, thats the bitch. I have Zango members - so how in hell am I going to prove loss?

TheDoc · 03-14-2007, 04:28 PM

Zango was hit for some nasty crap they did, or they say affiliates did. Point of that case showed they can and did get away with it. Until you can prove "Zango" is doing illegal/forced installs - you have no case.

You can send a C&D on keyword bids on your domain, but you can't sue them unless you own the trademark.

spacedog · 03-14-2007, 04:28 PM

Who are you fucking kidding???

Go visit the majority of big sponsors paysites..

Who's fucking in the pop-up & consoles? AFF!

I dropped all promotion of mayors money because they advertise Adult Friend Finder..

I dropped many sponsors & will continue to drop every single one of them that promotes AFF or Cams.com or any of their products.

Their was one the other night I was going to consider promoting, but nope.. fucking AFF console so fuck them too.

you know what.. I think we need to make a thread & list every single sponsor that promotes AFF or sends traffic to AFF..

DamageX · 03-14-2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

The problem is you don't know what Zango is. It's not spyware. It's legal, thats the bitch. I have Zango members - so how in hell am I going to prove loss?

Zango as an application may be legal. But the advertising methods employed by them aren't. I believe there have been lawsuits where people got fucked for bidding on competitor's names on PPC engines and stuff like that. How's Zango any different? And if that doesn't work, see the quote in the first post of this thread. I believe hijacking a potential client at the point-of-sale could prove to be heavily frowned upon by any judge, as well as the FTC.

Voodoo · 03-14-2007, 04:30 PM

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2006/11/zango.htm

"Consumers' computers belong to them, and they shouldn't have to accept any content they don’t want," said Lydia Parnes, Director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection. "If consumers choose to receive pop-up ads, so be it. But it violates federal law to secretly install software that forces consumers to get pop-ups that disrupt their computer use."

TheDoc · 03-14-2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamageX

Zango as an application may be legal. But the advertising methods employed by them aren't. I believe there have been lawsuits where people got fucked for bidding on competitor's names on PPC engines and stuff like that. How's Zango any different? And if that doesn't work, see the quote in the first post of this thread. I believe hijacking a potential client at the point-of-sale could prove to be heavily frowned upon by any judge, as well as the FTC.

That's the problem, they aren't stealing a clients at the point-of-sale. They POP an exit, which they are allowed to do, and they can reset the cookie, which is legal for tracking.

Its not normal spyware where it shows a different join page or redirects you to a new location. It just pops a ad..

DamageX · 03-14-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

That's the problem, they aren't stealing a clients at the point-of-sale. They POP an exit, which they are allowed to do, and they can reset the cookie, which is legal for tracking.

Its not normal spyware where it shows a different join page or redirects you to a new location. It just pops a ad..

Cool, let's go back to the McD/BK analogy I used earlier. You're hungry and on your way to enter BK, when someone from McD stands in front of you as you're about to walk through the door, with a huge sign advertising McD. Think that would fly?

TheDoc · 03-14-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedog

Who are you fucking kidding??? Go visit the majority of big sponsors paysites.. Who's fucking in the pop-up & consoles? AFF! I dropped all promotion of mayors money because they advertise Adult Friend Finder.. I dropped many sponsors & will continue to drop every single one of them that promotes AFF or Cams.com or any of their products. Their was one the other night I was going to consider promoting, but nope.. fucking AFF console so fuck them too. you know what.. I think we need to make a thread & list every single sponsor that promotes AFF or sends traffic to AFF..

This is about the biggest thing webmasters could do as a whole. The problem is GFY is only a small % of webmasters. Many people over the last several months have said they dropped Zango backed sponsors

Yet ranking wise, on alexa at least, it doesn't seem to have hurt them at all.

TheDoc · 03-14-2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamageX

Cool, let's go back to the McD/BK analogy I used earlier. You're hungry and on your way to enter BK, when someone from McD stands in front of you as you're about to walk through the door, with a huge sign advertising McD. Think that would fly?

I can see, record, and track this..

With Spyware I can't see it, track it, it changes every day, instead of 1, its millions, I can't stop it by calling the police. With my visitors they often do not know they are being taken away.

Zango isn't spyware, I can see it, but I can't stop it, I can't call the police, I could block the visitors but I have Zango members, so that would be stupid.

DamageX · 03-14-2007, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I can see, record, and track this..

With Spyware I can't see it, track it, it changes every day, instead of 1, its millions, I can't stop it by calling the police. With my visitors they often do not know they are being taken away.

Zango isn't spyware, I can see it, but I can't stop it, I can't call the police, I could block the visitors but I have Zango members, so that would be stupid.

Doesn't make it less shady and just because they haven't been challenged in court yet doesn't mean it can't be done successfully. All you need is a slick lawyer.

spacedog · 03-14-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

This is about the biggest thing webmasters could do as a whole. The problem is GFY is only a small % of webmasters. Many people over the last several months have said they dropped Zango backed sponsors

Yet ranking wise, on alexa at least, it doesn't seem to have hurt them at all.

Not only do we need to drop zango backed sponsors, but also drop those who promote & send traffic to zango backed sponsors.

Lately, I've been checking sites & I will remove every single ad, link, gallery etc to any sponsor that promotes AFF.

What also pisses me off, is friggen sponsors who pop an AFF console IN FRONT OF THE TOUR YOU'RE SELLING!!!

DamageX · 03-14-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedog

Not only do we need to drop zango backed sponsors, but also drop those who promote & send traffic to zango backed sponsors.

That won't help. ANYONE can bid on ANY domain name with Zango. So just because you send traffic to sponsor X doesn't mean AFF won't bid on that domain name to intercept your traffic. Worse yet, someone else can bid on that domain name using the same sponsor and simply have Zango pop a console to overwrite the set cookie containing your refid.

Voodoo · 03-14-2007, 04:58 PM

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=714700

DamageX · 03-14-2007, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=714700

Won't work.

Fucking myself · 03-14-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamageX

That won't help. ANYONE can bid on ANY domain name with Zango. So just because you send traffic to sponsor X doesn't mean AFF won't bid on that domain name to intercept your traffic. Worse yet, someone else can bid on that domain name using the same sponsor and simply have Zango pop a console to overwrite the set cookie containing your refid.

HUH ????

Can someone explain to me what AFF and Zango are doing? I haven't been here is awhile.

spacedog · 03-14-2007, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamageX

That won't help. ANYONE can bid on ANY domain name with Zango. So just because you send traffic to sponsor X doesn't mean AFF won't bid on that domain name to intercept your traffic. Worse yet, someone else can bid on that domain name using the same sponsor and simply have Zango pop a console to overwrite the set cookie containing your refid.

If enough webmasters told sponsor X that they're going to drop traffic because sponsor X is promoting AFF, I think sponsor x would likely consider dropping their advertising campain for AFF. What I suggested was not so much about zango, but about stopping traffic to those who support zango's biggest client.

RawAlex · 03-14-2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedog

If enough webmasters told sponsor X that they're going to drop traffic because sponsor X is promoting AFF, I think sponsor x would likely consider dropping their advertising campain for AFF. What I suggested was not so much about zango, but about stopping traffic to those who support zango's biggest client.

When people started to do that to cams and aff, all they did was start to turn an even more blind eye to bullshit content theiving pieces of shit, and they take the traffic from there. They are having a hard time finding enough greed sucks to push their contest thread along around here, I think most people have figured out that they don't want to do business with them at this point.

smutx · 03-14-2007, 05:10 PM

i have seen spyware for aff since 2001 when i first got infected by one... they dont care its all about greed

JD · 03-14-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVF

I'm sure that you'll do your part and take a lower payout to help pay for the lawsuit.

fucking eh I would. If with Zango in the mix I do 10 35PPS/day versus w/o Zango I do 15 25PPS/day I'll take the 15 sales.

germ · 03-14-2007, 05:58 PM

i think informing your surfers of whats going on would be the best thing. let them know what zango is and does and inform them of the latest tactics people are using to get the installs (ie: "codec" installs).

using smokeys notification script, redirect zango infected surfers that visit your site to an alternative page informing them that they are infected, why they should remove it, and how to get it off their systems.

education is the real cure for this problem.

Linkster · 03-14-2007, 06:05 PM

germ - in an ideal world education would work - in the world we live in it wont - we cant even get parents to turn on adult filters for their children
Remember that most of us are pretty competent at using a computer - but we are a very small minority - most people can find the power switch and thats about it

Now if you could get Mcaffee, norton, webroot and a few others to put zango and funwebproducts into their protection schemes - then you would have something

ttuurrbboo · 03-14-2007, 06:11 PM

Actually to me, it looks like McD waitress goes inside the BK and is serving McD foods to the guests and guests are paying her. Well, BK spent money to get the guest inside BK restaurant but McD waitress is stealing from inside and is serving her food inside a foreign restaurant. What a bitch.

Major (Tom) · 03-14-2007, 06:27 PM

what should happen is we should all band together and file a class action against the large sponsors who buy adds on torrent sites, password sites etc.
from what i've been told they can be found liable.
Duke

DamageX · 03-14-2007, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeSkywalker

what should happen is we should all band together and file a class action against the large sponsors who buy adds on torrent sites, password sites etc.
from what i've been told they can be found liable.
Duke

That works too.

Lanceman · 03-14-2007, 06:35 PM

ok I have had alot of problems with my shit please read my story here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=714455

Tell me what you think if I got infected or not and please post over there.

Im not trying to hijack this thread so dont get up my ass for that Im just aware that you guys over here are aware of alot and I value your opinions!

Any help would be awesome..........

Lanceman · 03-14-2007, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanceman

ok I have had alot of problems with my shit please read my story here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=714455

Tell me what you think if I got infected or not and please post over there.

Im not trying to hijack this thread so dont get up my ass for that Im just aware that you guys over here are aware of alot and I value your opinions!

Any help would be awesome..........

P.S. after this is all over I say we all go to fucking Burger king and ask the for a .99cent Big Mac!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just to see the dumb ass look on their face.

JD · 03-15-2007, 12:17 AM

yaaaaarg back to tha top with ye

germ · 03-15-2007, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linkster

germ - in an ideal world education would work - in the world we live in it wont - we cant even get parents to turn on adult filters for their children
Remember that most of us are pretty competent at using a computer - but we are a very small minority - most people can find the power switch and thats about it

Now if you could get Mcaffee, norton, webroot and a few others to put zango and funwebproducts into their protection schemes - then you would have something

point taken, and youre absolutely right. the people that know the least are the ones using nortons and mcaffee. hell, if windows anti spyware thing included it, it wouldnt even be an issue anymore.

zalka · 03-15-2007, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linkster

Now if you could get Mcaffee, norton, webroot and a few others to put zango and funwebproducts into their protection schemes - then you would have something

Thats the best idea sofar, but how would you go abought it.

JamesK2 · 03-15-2007, 04:13 AM

Goodluck with that.

03-14-2007, 01:25 PM	#2
fris Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 55,320	or someone could just own zangos servers and forward all traffic to www.hai2u.com __________________ Since 1999: 69 Adult Industry awards for Best Hosting Company and professional excellence. WP Stuff

03-14-2007, 03:49 PM	#10
DamageX Marketing & Strategy Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Former nomad Posts: 14,293	Fucker, you quoted me without giving me credit for iiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttt!!!!!!! You're soooooooooo bannnnnnnnnnneeeeeeeeeedddddddddd!!!!!!! __________________ Whitehat is for chumps If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

03-14-2007, 04:18 PM	#15
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	I think the every day webmaster should ban together, take time away from everything they do, spend the extra money and efforts, to fight spyware. It's your money, sales, and traffic.. Or do you really want someone else to spend the money and time to protect your money and traffic? __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

03-14-2007, 04:19 PM	#16
jact Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oakville, Canada Posts: 9,134	I have something in the works, something very good for this whole situation... __________________ Free agent

03-14-2007, 04:24 PM	#20
starpimps Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: internets Posts: 6,954	zango will bend over and take it very soon __________________ Teen Porn Models / Solo Girls

03-14-2007, 01:30 PM	#4
BradM Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: 1123,6536,5231 Posts: 3,397	I don't mind zango. I just buy ads from them and steal back the sales they are stealing. j/k.

03-14-2007, 01:47 PM	#6
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	adapt or die. the law of the jungle is still in effect.

03-14-2007, 02:25 PM	#8
JD Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 22,651	bump in the trunk

03-14-2007, 03:57 PM	#11
Sosa In Tushy Land Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 40,149	porno jew is pry someone doing this fucking codec installing... sperm I totaly agree with you. It is going to take us standing up as an industry to get some of this shit stopped.

03-14-2007, 04:23 PM	#19
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	Adult Sponsors are relying on the old "beer and pussy at convention" defense, hoping that anyone with enough money to afford a lawyer in the right jurisdiction will be on their suckup list and they won't have to worry. Sponsors knowingly paying for "stolen" or redirected surfers (especially now that Zango has paid a fine for misleading or downright fraudulent installs) are running a huge risk that someone will pop up and paper them over. SPONSORS! WAKE UP! The alarm clock is going off, do something before someone does it for you, with teeth.

03-14-2007, 04:28 PM	#22
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	Zango was hit for some nasty crap they did, or they say affiliates did. Point of that case showed they can and did get away with it. Until you can prove "Zango" is doing illegal/forced installs - you have no case. You can send a C&D on keyword bids on your domain, but you can't sue them unless you own the trademark. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

03-14-2007, 04:28 PM	#23
spacedog Yes that IS me. Bitch. Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 14,149	Who are you fucking kidding??? Go visit the majority of big sponsors paysites.. Who's fucking in the pop-up & consoles? AFF! I dropped all promotion of mayors money because they advertise Adult Friend Finder.. I dropped many sponsors & will continue to drop every single one of them that promotes AFF or Cams.com or any of their products. Their was one the other night I was going to consider promoting, but nope.. fucking AFF console so fuck them too. you know what.. I think we need to make a thread & list every single sponsor that promotes AFF or sends traffic to AFF..

03-14-2007, 04:30 PM	#25
Voodoo ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Porn Valley, CA Posts: 10,590	http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2006/11/zango.htm "Consumers' computers belong to them, and they shouldn't have to accept any content they don’t want," said Lydia Parnes, Director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection. "If consumers choose to receive pop-up ads, so be it. But it violates federal law to secretly install software that forces consumers to get pop-ups that disrupt their computer use."

03-14-2007, 04:58 PM	#33
Voodoo ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Porn Valley, CA Posts: 10,590	http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=714700

03-14-2007, 05:10 PM	#38
smutx Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: interwebs Posts: 1,190	i have seen spyware for aff since 2001 when i first got infected by one... they dont care its all about greed __________________ icq: 236148465

03-14-2007, 05:58 PM	#40
germ ( o Y o ) Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,108	i think informing your surfers of whats going on would be the best thing. let them know what zango is and does and inform them of the latest tactics people are using to get the installs (ie: "codec" installs). using smokeys notification script, redirect zango infected surfers that visit your site to an alternative page informing them that they are infected, why they should remove it, and how to get it off their systems. education is the real cure for this problem.

03-14-2007, 06:05 PM	#41
Linkster Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: DeltaHell Posts: 3,216	germ - in an ideal world education would work - in the world we live in it wont - we cant even get parents to turn on adult filters for their children Remember that most of us are pretty competent at using a computer - but we are a very small minority - most people can find the power switch and thats about it Now if you could get Mcaffee, norton, webroot and a few others to put zango and funwebproducts into their protection schemes - then you would have something __________________ Porn Links Crak for your bank account - Get Addicted FREE LIVE CAM SHOWS

03-14-2007, 06:11 PM	#42
ttuurrbboo Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 652	Actually to me, it looks like McD waitress goes inside the BK and is serving McD foods to the guests and guests are paying her. Well, BK spent money to get the guest inside BK restaurant but McD waitress is stealing from inside and is serving her food inside a foreign restaurant. What a bitch. __________________ SponsorDeals.Com offers: over $100 PPS, up to 100% revshare or even bonus money just for signing-up ! FREE Chameleon or Advanced Submitter ! RSS FEEDS SITES ! The best deals around at SponsorDeals.Com ! Last edited by ttuurrbboo; 03-14-2007 at 06:12 PM..

03-14-2007, 06:27 PM	#43
Major (Tom) Anti Communist Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Null Posts: 29,857	what should happen is we should all band together and file a class action against the large sponsors who buy adds on torrent sites, password sites etc. from what i've been told they can be found liable. Duke __________________ My mother said, to get things done You'd better not mess with Major Tom

03-14-2007, 06:35 PM	#45
Lanceman So Fucking Banned Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 301	ok I have had alot of problems with my shit please read my story here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=714455 Tell me what you think if I got infected or not and please post over there. Im not trying to hijack this thread so dont get up my ass for that Im just aware that you guys over here are aware of alot and I value your opinions! Any help would be awesome..........

03-15-2007, 12:17 AM	#47
JD Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 22,651	yaaaaarg back to tha top with ye

03-15-2007, 04:13 AM	#50
JamesK2 Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 6,589	Goodluck with that. __________________