Phil

андрюша сидоренко, хули сравнивать яблоки с радиаторами. Врятли россия пойдет стрелят из Катюш по жилому городу. Ты лучше про Крым расскажи нам а не про Сахалин...

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pocketkangaroo

This is where you lose all credibility. Can you point to one example where the opposition party was arrested because they have a different point of view? The U.S. does some shitty stuff, but I don't get locked up for being opposed to the government. This stuff seems to happen a lot in your country.

I'd tell you to look for some objective journalism, but apparently all those journalists seem to end up dead in your country.

TheDoc

Английские, вы говорите его?

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Sid70

Hule rasskazyvat, bratelo, v Krymu mozhet nachatsia tazhe huinia po indukcii. No eto ne na ruku Rashke. Samokat, kto ty za hui takoi, chto ia ne znau tvoego imeni?

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Phil

Ты много еше чего не знаешь а хуи это то что весит между ног твоеи матери.

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just a punk

So they must kill everyone including women and children? Ты ебанулся совсем?

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femdomdestiny

[QUOTE=pocketkangaroo;14588004]This is where you lose all credibility. Can you point to one example where the opposition party was arrested because they have a different point of view? The U.S. does some shitty stuff, but I don't get locked up for being opposed to the government. [URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7111753.stm"]This stuff seems

My serbian friend who went to Florida college was called by authorites to explain what three fingers mean that he was using to say hi to other firends. It was forbidden to him to use it!!!! Freedom of speech? silly

Phil

Basically told him to mind his own fucking business and stop talking about things he knows nothing about. Its amazing how many ukranian pissants get all excited when something happens in Russia.

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Phil

да хохол он. тут обяснят нечего.

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just a punk

Whaaaaaaaat? Have I pretended to have any credibility for every brainwashed person like you?

Just a few words about freedom of speech.

1) When the USA started their attack on Belgrade, first of all they destroyed Serbian TV center.

When Russia started a military operation against Georgian aggression it hasn't bomb their media and TV structures.

2) When Georgia started it's invasion on South Ossetia, it has closed an access to the Russian internet sites and stopped re-translation of Russian TV to Georgian citizens.

Russia haven't restricted an access to any sites or TV channels including CNN/BBC/EuroNews etc to let its citizens read, watch and comment everything they want.

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Still trying to grasp the deal here in Georgia.

So far what I have gathered is this.

1: Ossetia is a region that belongs to Georgia.
2: Russian influence and backing in the region has created an insurgent and separatist movement within Ossetia.
3: Georgia says holy shit this is not cool and tries to deal with it diplomatically for several years.
4: Separatists firstly in Ossetia fire artillary into Georgia.
5: Georgia says fuck you and level's the place and begins to exterminate the separatists.
6: Russia moves in with Air strikes and Tank incursion within Georgian borders saying Georgian's have started this war by killing Civilians in its attempt to remove the Separatists.

Is that about right? That appears to be the basic drum roll based on what I have read in the BBC, CNN, and Other reports that could be found in English about this region. Most information comming out of the area regarding whats happening is in fucked up languages I do not understand.


I am gonna have to side with Georgia on this one. Georgian government has every right to remove separatists from there borders. Russian Meddling did not help the situation.

I hope the Ukriane blockades Russian vessel's. If ya ask me the Old Soviet block states need to stand up and keep Russia in check in it's attempt to expand it's authority while attempting to acquire important oil pipelines that run throughout that region.

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Sid70

Its a war conflict. Its happening. And we dont have access to all the details. Its not like a oneday issues, its been up for years now. May be separatists should have predicted that and stop bitching understanding they are breaking the law... or Georgians should have let
em go? Can you please tell me what country do you know allowing separatism for free no strings attached?

Here's the full history:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...hronology.html

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Sid70

Logically correct. What most Russian people say atm its Georgian attack i skilling civilians.

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just a punk

We are talking about GENOCIDE man! I know you are Ukrainian. When Ukrainian SS mongrels have killed thousands of Jews during WWI times they were saying the same. Have your grandfather was among them? How many Jews he has killed personally? Got any medals from Hitler for that?

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Sid70

ah not true, i am observing facts only, i speak native russian and born in SU era, so I know a lot about SU. Hohol or not, it doesnt matter. Just looking at this and seeing cold facts while Russian brothers trying to polish my ass talking talking their hearts out.

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

One thing that is strange to me is this.

Why was Russia and Georgian government allowing Citizens to register as Russians within Ossetia and using Russian Currency within Ossetia and for the most part the region? How was that possible? Why would Georgians allow that to happen or was those things just part of Russia's Political influence to Fuel the separatist movement??

whats happened sounds like old school Russian State Satelite Hand book from way back in the 1900's. Russia did this same shit back then and many wars were faught over exactly these situations. Doesnt anyone learn from history anymore?
THis is old school Marxist Playbook.

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Phil

What do brain children of Ukraine think? That Russians bombed the shit out of Ossetian capital causing civilian casualties? Please tell us Mr. Pulitzer. Enlighten us..

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just a punk

Can't you read or what? I've told already, that Georgia and South Ossetia have signed a non-aggression pact and asked Russia to be a peace keeper. I.e. to suppress any aggression from any side with a military power. Georgia has broke that pact and started a GENOCIDE. Russia just doing the job it is responsible for.

I don't understand how you can be so blind and ignorant

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Phil

Ossetia had “autonomy” status for past 17 years. This whole “separatist” idea didn’t start last week. Whats so hard to understand.. Its disputed territory where 90% of people have nothing to do or common with Republic of Georgia. Its like Puerto Rico and the US but with more hate and animosity towards each other.

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pocketkangaroo

Brainwashed on what? I have no side on the issue. I don't even really care. Both sides seem to be fucked up in this situation and I'd say the issue isn't black and white.

I doubt CNN or others are able to access the area that quickly. I'd also imagine they would be under a lot of pressure in their reporting considering that those journalists who are critical of Russia seem to end up dead more often than not.

Sid70

Again, pls, slow down and read what i wrote, not jsut picking up some phrases. Its sorry but separatists get killed in many conflicts. This time Russia being a pacifier is not jsut making itself look that good, not enoug rep. I have nothing personal against russians, i understand their reaction even, they went to Ossetia to protect their citizens living there, but those citizens belong to Ossetia that commited crime supporting separatism.

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Actually it is exactly the Marxist playbook.

Carl Marx believed in Economical and political gains by supporting an economy initially and then introduce and expand socialistic policies within a territory for better or worse "Improve" economies labor force, then with eventuality seed in a separatist group that will push for socialistist movements which promises fair pay for fair labor. This is totally Russian Old school political tactics. All this should have been learned from the drum up to WWI and after WWI and WWII.

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just a punk

Ok, here is another history lesson for you. When the USSR has collapsed, it gave a possibility to ANY former person with a Soviet passport get a Russian citizenship. Georgia hasn't provided such a possibility to Ossetians because they are not Georgians because Zviad Gamsakhurdia - the first Georgian president proclaimed his famous term: "Georgia is for Georgians!". So as you my understand, the Ossetian people become non-citizens. Should I continue the explanation or you just turn your brain on?

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TheDoc

Good to know, I had no idea wtf was going on and capt russian thread here didn't help.

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Phil

Oh, eat shit with your fruit loops. What facts are you talking about? Hundreds of dead Ossetians that become “casualty of war”, yet it the Russians that are doing the killings… Piss off.

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just a punk

Another one who can't read

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just a punk

Marxism sucks, but Stalinism rules! Do you know that Stalin and Beria are idols of Saakashvily - the president of Georgia? No? Read the interview of his wife (I gave the links in my posts above).

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Sid70

you're getting blind in your anger. I noticed that Georgian attack caused many civilians dead. Since 99% supports full autonomy they all become enemies. It gave Gerogians a formal right to attack. But generally and lawfuly they are getting their own land back... in war.

I read Ossetia wanted FULL autonomy, its not accetable for any country to allow that.

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Phil

Since when independence and liberty became crime? You ever read your own posts? East Timor, Kosovo, Baltic States… the list goes on.. How is Ossetia is different. What crime have they committed?

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Maybe you should read my shot list again. Bullet point marked #2.

Well if it is worth dying for let them have at it. But I can tell ya one thing, once Socialism settles in Ossetia them people are not going to be any happier!

Some people like the idea of having a guranteed job under Socialism ( Which is not bad at all! I am a Socialist! Or rather I consider myself one honestly because I do not think a Capitalistic system has as many opportunities to advance as it so claims, everyone ends up working at Mc Donald's and Walmart for substandard pay.) while others tend to enjoy the freedom of fending for themselves under a Democtratic/Republic with the freedom to endeavor for there own Financial asperations independently under a government system of check and balances.

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qxm

RUSSIANS are NOT ONLY invading Georgia but are also Invading my severs and sucking up my Bandwidth!!! FUCK DAM IT!!!

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just a punk

Can't find your drugs today or what?

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Phil

What the fuck are you talking about? Socialism, communist.. Dude, you’re clueless….

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Sid70

its too pity civilians are getting killes. Me myself been in those mentioned cities several times before. Its hard to believe its now ruined. May be Georgians should have let em go long ago and be wiser to avoid killing people?

Would be cool to see logic in it, to understand why it coudnt be solved no war way.

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just a punk

In two words, Saakashvili and Condoleezza have set up ALL THE GEORGIAN PEOPLE.

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Phil

Are you fucking nuts or what? Lets see what happens to Indonesia if they decide to attack East Timor. Let Serbs re-claim Kosovo. “Formal right to attack”.. Lets wipe entire city of the map and call it “formal right”.. You’re one disturbed individual..

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just a punk

I believe he is talking about this:

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/apr/01/georgia.oil

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Phil

Maybe they should have left it the way it was for 17 years. There was NO reason to do what they did. NONE.

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

What would you call Russia's current status as government right now?

I would say they qualify as a Socialist state at this point.
Gorbechev removed alot of it that with a Semi Revolution witha push to Democracy. Russia collapsed after that not knowing what to do as it's society was used to being told where to work and for how much. They didnt understand Capitalism and still do not. However Putin has moved many many things back under State Authority.

People in Russia have state jobs now and a recovering labor force.

SO what is Russia?

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Sid70

I begin to feel that I heard that today from my ex-russian US based buddy already. And heard this exact question how different they are from Kosovo...

They are not different. Thats why I tried to face a case if say Sahalin wanted to join Japan, why not? And we're not hearing a lawsuits here and let the court taking in view what happened before in other countries, becasue in this case I say Return America To Indians Now.

So cold facts are. There is Georgia, and Ossetia ahs an autonomy in it. Going into full autunomy its a separatism.

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Phil

Its market economy. Not as extreme as in the US, but it is market economy. Nobody guarantees you permanent job. That would be keritsu system in japan. Sweden is socialist.. Norway as well. Government owns oil companies and natural resources. Whats your point?

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Sid70

Stakan perepolnilsa, hui znaet. THey jsut thought that day its enough. Ossetians living in autonomy was ok, but FULL autonomy its kinda too much.

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seven

So far what I have gathered is this.

1: Ossetia is a region that belonged to Georgia.
2: Ossetia people did not like Georgian government, wanted Independence. Majority Ossetians applied for Russian citizenship/passport. Russia granted it. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26116598
3: Georgia says holy shit this is not cool and tried to deal with it diplomatically as they had no other real choice for several years.
4: When Georgian Army got some training from the U.S. (reminds me of Afghanistan.. maybe another Osama about to be born?), they got over-confident and decided to reclaim Ossetia.
5: Georgia says fuck you and tries to level the place and begins to exterminate the separatists who happen to be Russian citizens.
6: Russia moves in with Air strikes and Tank incursion within Georgian borders saying Georgian's have started this war by killing Civilians and Russian citizens in its attempt to remove the Separatists which happens to be the people of that whole region.
7: Russians want a Georgian "Regime change" but unwilling to call it "Regime Change" so they don't sound too much like current U.S. admin.

That appears to be the basic on what I have read in the BBC, CNN, and
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26093313/?from=ET

I am gonna have to side with Russia. Russia has every right as U.S. to defend its national security and to go in and liberate Georgia with but one difference it's not quite pre-emptive.. Georgia already attacked.. now seeing backlash.

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

If the government owns Land Resources and Natural resources and maintains the labor forces to utilise them then technically the Government is a Socialistic one.

The Market system of a state is always separate in most forms of government if not ALL while the Free Market system depends solely on the Government's system of Finance and export policies for trade. As far as I know Russian Government system controls Import/Export Trade organizations.

Who owns the banks in Russia? I know it is not the Jews.

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Phil

What full autonomy? What the hell are you talking about? For 17 years Ossetia had autonomy status and co-existed with Georgia. Not friendliest relationship, but they didn’t bomb each other. 3 days ago Georgia decides to bomb the shit out of them (after 17 years!!!!) and you say it normal. Wgo had brain fart on that day? I don’t see Sakhalin as autonomy like Chechnya.. I don’t see polls that say 99% of Sakhalin inhabitants want that status. What did I miss. Maybe in Ukraine you guys have some sort of IQ Viagra to find similarities between Ossetia and Sakhalin.

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Phil

There are plenty of privately owned banks in Russia. Whats your next question .

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just a punk

I'd say that almost all banks in Russia are private. Fellow AlienQ just have no idea what's happening here.

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Sid70

U didnt hear them wanting to join Russia and trying to declare FULL AUTONOMY?
It means separate themselves from Georgia as a whole. That is the reason I believe.
Oni hotiat otdelicca ot Grusii polnostiu, stat nezavisimym gosudarstvom.

I guess you also didnt understand that giving you a virtual example with Sahalin I'm telling you that Ossetia is doing the same in Georgia, they do want to be seaprate country, not jsut an autonomy in Georgia.

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TheDoc

What can I not read? The arguing of who is correct or wrong over 50 different points on what's going on and the other half not being in English?

What seems more logical, is I don't care enough to pay attention to what I'm reading, simply because it's about Russia and Georgia and would rather read a summery from someone else that might actually care saving me time and energy.

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Not worth commenting on. Appearently you do not know what a National Forest is and what it means.

I found this in some of my information gathering.

"The Russian conundrum consists, first, of a growing economy with a gross domestic product that has increased by 50 percent since 1998, a solid and reliable financial system, companies listed on the London and New York stock exchanges, thirty-three billionaires on the Forbes List in 2006, and a responsible monetary and fiscal policy that has produced a fiscal surplus since 2000. Then there are the dramatic social indicators: the suicide rate has increased by about 50 percent since the nineties; alcohol and drug consumption have soared; the AIDS epidemic is the worst in Europe; there are 120,000 new cases of tuberculosis every year; and access to hospitals under the corrupt and inadequate health system depends on bribing doctors and nurses. The political indicators are no less dismaying. The system is increasingly authoritarian: all the television channels are under direct or indirect government control; the nonaligned daily and weekly newspapers can be counted on the fingers of one hand and, in any case, have an extremely limited circulation; the president has abolished the elections for regional governors; a few politicians close to Putin have recently suggested the abolition of mayoral elections as well; and pro-government parties, which win with majorities of 70 percent, control sixty-three of the eighty-eight regional parliaments. Trade union activity is almost nonexistent because, as the American journalist David Satter has made clear, trade unionists are intimidated, beaten up, and even eliminated. The climate of fear extends to the ethnic minorities that live in the country: the most recent victims have been the Georgians, who are guilty of having been born in a country that does not accept Russian political interference. During his recent anti-Georgian campaign, President Putin added a new expression to his vocabulary: korennoi narod (?the rooted population?), obviously a reference to the Russians. He insists that the interests of this latter group must be protected against ill-defined dangers. In the meantime, the police arrest and beat up the local ?blacks? (non-Russians from the South)."

Published well before these current events of Russian Invasion of Georgia.

http://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/?article=768

If ya ask me it sounding more and more Socialistic to me by far it just has not been written in Ink yet

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