The traffic pool has changed forever- would you agree? - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

O MARINA · 03-25-2009, 10:22 AM

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crockett · 03-25-2009, 10:24 AM

Blame the tubes.. Yes really not just a catch phrase.

Two years or so ago affiliates actually promoted the paysites by using galleries or sending traffic directly to the tours from their main pages. Now days Affiliates and thieves that run illegal tubes send their traffic to dating and cam sites.

No big surprise there is less traffic going to paysite tours these days, it's because no one promotes the paysites they just use the content to promote dating and cams. Even the legal tubes, blogs and TGP's do the same these days..

Affiliate programs need to start putting their foot down as to how many adds can be on the same page as their promotional content.

Paul Markham · 03-25-2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

How about this:

1) overload of free substitute on the net
2) cc scamming going on
3) no ethics - many will pull any scam they're capable of to steal your piece of the pie (connected with the point 1 and point 2)

Well, say this might be able to help with the over saturation, as many might close the shop.

But the problem is that the biggest scams will most likely remain in the game - should we rethink the meaning of ethics if we are on the web?

There is nothing new about any of this. It's all old hat.

1) overload of free substitute on the net When you have a system run by people who want it for free, they see the solution as giving it away for free. It's a mindset.

2) cc scamming going on I think it was Crescent, or the company that runs this publisher who I first heard of ripping off credit cards, again nothing new.

3) no ethics - many will pull any scam they're capable of to steal your piece of the pie Since I first started selling here it was amazing the different attitudes there was to stealing or conning. It seemed doing it to an affiliates was a crime so bad it should be punished by death. Yet doing the same to customers was never really a problem. Unless it effected out income. Seems the worm has turned.

Paul Markham · 03-25-2009, 11:36 AM

Some very good points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnniKN

Main problem with this industry is its hypocrisy and self-destructive behaviour -being shortsighted, lying to the surfer, running credit cards and all sorts of things... the surfer never developed a liking for the industry, they could love a single website's content, but having to pay for it was an inconvenience as oppossed to something you wanted to do because it was both worth it and because you wanted the people who are running this awesome site to get something back for fulfilling your needs.

This industry has always put the customer second. It's main thing was to sell to itself and expect the surfers to join because they had little choice. It was rarely about what customers wanted and always about what we needed.

Welcome to the result.

IF YOU WANT TO SELL BETTER YOU HAD BETTER HAVE SOMETHING BETTER TO SELL.
The customer is clued up these days.

Quote:

Why do you think some people have no problem in donating monthly to forums and buying rapidshare accounts? I bet if tubes had DONATE buttons they'd make bank too, even more than with the Premium mode. The surfer feels admiration and gratitude for these forums and sites, most paysites were never deserving of admiration or gratitude.

recently read a thread about a Tube site asking for a 1 off $5 donation for all the surfers who want to see full length, would love to know if that worked.

Quote:

The way I see it, the industry needs a major clean up, and we need to educate the surfer - will it work? fuck if I know, but I do know that the sites that still get rebills and memberships are the ones that provide the surfer with something unique and that they find pleasant, and there is a reason for that.

Educating him how and about what? They don't care if the content is stolen all they know is a Tube site, paid or free, is a better option than a lot of paysites they did join.

polish_aristocrat · 03-25-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

I would dare to say that a generic average 1000 uniques sent to a generic average porn site (trying to talk abstractly, as far as you have many variables in the game, such as niche, source of traffic, etc. ) definitely doesn't have the potential that it used to have.

You gotta keep an eye clearly on what makes YOUR money, what do you get per 1000 uniques?

yeah, few years ago one could have a tgp with a few k uniques daily and he'd make a living

or just taffic from the SE's looking for "Teen sex" or "hardcore porn" or other semi-general terms like that, would convert into something

edit: obviously with the proper filtering and traffic sources, you can still convert 1:100 with some stuff, but that doesn't matter in the bigger picture of things

nowadays 1000 uniques is nothing, and often 10k uniques doesn't buy anything
unless you got micro-niche stuff like Barefootsies or magic join links like Paul M.

Paul Markham · 03-25-2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLuvr

This graph coincides right about the time that issues with the world economy and the credit crunch began to hit, i.e September 2008. People stopped going to paid porn sites and tried to get off on free porn.

It could also just be something related to specifically to those kinds of sites. They are all over the tubes and the internet, maybe people are just getting tired of them and want something new.

If you're right then this will kill some Tubes and severely slow down others. It costs money to run Tube sites and the idea that Tube site viewers don't buy is so wrong and indicates the thinking of the poster. If no porn Tube site viewers bought anything Tubes would not exist.

They just don't buy from many of us and people need to get that.

Paul Markham · 03-25-2009, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

unless you got micro-niche stuff like Barefootsies or magic join links like Paul M.

I'm still here so long after so many predicted my demise.

What people really hated about those $5 sites was the idea that $5 would solve the needs of the surfers. Heaven forbid him not having to spend $30 so we could all earn a living. Welcome to the results.

And yes still get sign ups on http://www.5dollarsporn.com/ not a lot but never worked it. Now I have the CMS I have other problems.

BV · 03-25-2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crockett

Blame the tubes.. Yes really not just a catch phrase.

Two years or so ago affiliates actually promoted the paysites by using galleries or sending traffic directly to the tours from their main pages. Now days Affiliates and thieves that run illegal tubes send their traffic to dating and cam sites.

No big surprise there is less traffic going to paysite tours these days, it's because no one promotes the paysites they just use the content to promote dating and cams. Even the legal tubes, blogs and TGP's do the same these days..

Affiliate programs need to start putting their foot down as to how many adds can be on the same page as their promotional content.

I agree with you.

Problem is the beast is already unleashed and I doubt you will get him back in his cage.

Barefootsies · 03-25-2009, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

nowadays 1000 uniques is nothing, and often 10k uniques doesn't buy anything
unless you got micro-niche stuff like Barefootsies or magic join links like Paul M.

True dat playa.

I do a lot more with a lot less in terms of traffic. But keep in mind,.. I also have very niche, highly targeted and filtered traffic (see ratios in sig). When they DO come. They come to buy.

Having 10,000 or a million UV a day that do not buy shit doesn't pay the bills. E-Penis about my "big traffic" that most on this board seem to focus on is part of this industry's problem. Traffic is nice, but if they are not coming to buy. Who fucking cares.

I'll take 300 UV a day where 1 in 6 buy versus 30,000 and they are all freeloaders.

crockett · 03-25-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BV

I agree with you.

Problem is the beast is already unleashed and I doubt you will get him back in his cage.

Yea I agree.. I remember when ATK Cash tried to take a stand on how their content was used. They got bashed on every board and likely lost a lot of webmasters because they tried to protect their content.

Paul Markham · 03-25-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLuvr

Just did the same on Alexa for a popular porn torrent site. I won't post it here, because this place is full of surfers, but the Alexa for it looks worse than Realitykings or Brazzers. It looks like it is in a death spiral since last year.

I am just thinking maybe people are just sick of the same type of porn being produced over and over? Look at Realitykings and all these types of sites, it is the same girls having sex with the same guys over and over. The new stuff that is coming out is the same at the old stuff. Are people suffering from porn overload?

Spot on. The problem is that after 10 years of thinking content is not that important and the members will buy anything the truth is they will not.

As a content producer I know first hand many buyers attitude towards content. THEY BUY ON PRICE. And if sites arte converting worse, even with lower traffic, it's proof more of the people visiting sites are just not seeing what they want to buy. They're on a paysite tour, they are looking at paid porn, so they are not all free loaders. They are surfers you can't sell to and the solution is not get more traffic. IT'S CONVERT MORE OF THE TRAFFIC YOU HAVE.

The problem is that means you have to stop thinking 50 scenes shot by the same guy on a limited budget with models who really don't give a dam, is not going to sell because this is the only site with this girl, on that sofa. Because odds are she's on a 100 other sofas doing the same thing.

The solution is not HG either. Wish it was but Tube surfers prove it's not. It's good porn shot by someone who understands, with a twist that's different, a model doing it for real and not faking it and on a budget that makes it work.

But as we all know the solution in many peoples eyes is to spend more on sending more traffic to a site that converts worse. God forbid people thinking out of the box. LOL

Paul Markham · 03-25-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BV

Here is a perfect analogy:

Just imagine if a store started giving away free generic cigarettes a pack at a time.

Many people would be happy with that and never buy Marlboros again.

They would go to this store every day for a free pack of generic smokes.

The store would have all kinds of traffic every day.

Marlboro sales would plummet.

This is where we are.

The difference is Marlboro would have the brains to come up with a solution. Or the balls to make sure people were stopped. We only have the brains to keep moaning and never thing of solutions.

BV · 03-25-2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The difference is Marlboro would have the brains to come up with a solution. Or the balls to make sure people were stopped. We only have the brains to keep moaning and never thing of solutions.

Not everything is solvable. You have to evolve not solve.

Kinky John · 03-25-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crockett

Blame the tubes.. Yes really not just a catch phrase.

Two years or so ago affiliates actually promoted the paysites by using galleries or sending traffic directly to the tours from their main pages. Now days Affiliates and thieves that run illegal tubes send their traffic to dating and cam sites.

No big surprise there is less traffic going to paysite tours these days, it's because no one promotes the paysites they just use the content to promote dating and cams. Even the legal tubes, blogs and TGP's do the same these days..

Affiliate programs need to start putting their foot down as to how many adds can be on the same page as their promotional content.

agree with the above ^

i'm sure some SURFERS are now banking more than many webmasters
via PPC surfer referrals to filehosts from the high traffic p2p forums..
so content thieves are now being PAID to share content illegally
imo this financial incentive is accelerating the fileshare problem

BVF · 03-25-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crockett

Yea I agree.. I remember when ATK Cash tried to take a stand on how their content was used. They got bashed on every board and likely lost a lot of webmasters because they tried to protect their content.

From what I can recall the main beef with them was they they wouldn't allow you to use their thumbnails on a tgp that used a skim....

I'm sure that they wished that they had such a minor problem right now.

suesheboy · 03-25-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey Jones

affiliates are being phased out.

programs now are more dependant on their own traffic sources and direct advertising.

Ongoing for years.

Bottom line, if you are affiliate you have no long term future.

The rip offs, shaving etc are out of hand and the traffic has turned to shit. Bring back the days of converting 1:32 and getting a $35 hit on a free signup.

Sysgenix · 03-25-2009, 11:08 PM

I think the 1:100+ going towards the 1:500+ for people relates to as well a lot of countries coming on board that simply do not have the payment systems.

Free sites that have 30-40% turkey, india traffic a few years ago were unheard of, now they are everywhere, and they are big. That has to acccount for a bit of the drop that people see in conversions. Just have to adjust to different billing options.

rigrunner · 03-25-2009, 11:21 PM

You make a page about a pornstar, monitor the hits to it, you'll see google searches along the lines of 'pornstarname video rapidshare', 'pornstarname torrent' , 'pornstarname downloads' so even those not savvy in the technologies are certainly looking for ways to get it free.
Re-educating the surfer would be a tough thing to do but the industry could start with the tubes, instead of supporting them go back to the 2 min tease videos.
Back when tubes started I'd post this way with my URL on the end, made a lot of cash....
Tried doing that last month to Xtube, vid deleted before it was up because it's 'spam' telling me their users are there for the free porn and only the free porn. Sponsors supporting the tubes should be cracking down on this but they don't they follow quick cash...

Paul Markham · 03-26-2009, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BV

Not everything is solvable. You have to evolve not solve.

This is very true and over the 30 years of selling adult content I have evolved from selling photographs mail order to where I am today. Had highs and lows but always evolving and adapting to the new opportunities.

The week before Eva's accident we had sat down and talked about making changes to the business to adapt to the changing markets. One was to open a giant PPV or download store with video scenes as low as 10 cents, the surfer adds them to a basket, pays and gets exactly what he paid for. There would be a minimum order amount. The site would look like a Tube and samples would be there in FLV.

Plus I was going to start shooting more and doing scenes hundreds of other shooters are not doing. Shooting something unique. Astral Blue retro videos is up and was doing nicely considering we have not launched the affiliates program yet. Last week was slow though.

As everyone knows our life took a turn last year and a lot was put on hold. Now with my problems it seems our lives will be on hold for a little longer.

But we're still evolving. We put up the free live show for members. We opened the site so surfers can see what they're getting. Neither were a magic bullet or link, but both improved sign up ratios.

We are always adding more content to the pay sites. So I'm sure you don't mean me whan you ask about evolving. Even the $5 porn sites were me trying to evolve to see if surfers would buy if the price was right. Sadly this industry latches on two broken links to one CC processor, ignoring the other to CCBILL, and continue their bull shitting terrified the surfers might latch onto a cheaper alternative. And hits their income.

And there is the problem. Too many in this business refuse to evolve or adapt because they want the clock to turn back to 1999 when surfers had to sign up. All the marketing skills so many boast about is revealed as just boasting if they need buyers who don't have the choice.

I will continue to evolve as much as my health permits. I wish others would evolve as well. But from a very recent post it's clear many still dream of a change with doing nothing about it.

Quote:

Bring back the days of converting 1:32 and getting a $35 hit on a free sign up.

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-26-2009, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

4. There is this belief that all porn buyers, and watchers are Mr Fucking Wizard and know all these tricks to get free porn. I know a lot of people in my RL. I have asked probably hundreds if not thousands over the course of my time in this industry and not ONE of the them knows how to use torrents, peer to peer, or many of the things mentioned daily on this board.

They DO know about TGP's and tubes and admit to using, or watching them.

Exactly!

Try to explain to a 40 something guy how to use a p2p or torrent and he'll get so freaked out he'll rather just push play again.

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-26-2009, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elli

If not donations, I think micro-payments have huge potential. Like a clip store, but without the store aspect. If only the processors could allow say $2 charges for a single video file, etc, it would be easier for the surfer to swallow than a commitment like a monthly subscription that they have to remember to cancel.

Something I'm exploring just now.

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-26-2009, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Mike

I know other countries are growing and there will always be business opportunities. However, I think most of the free online adult money is gone. There is money to made but not as easily in the past.

Well, let's not forget one thing - "other" countries (say "less developed") are 90 pct. more piracy than US or any civilised place where people actually have money to spare.

Someone fucked up when they entered the new markets, how can a piece of software cost MORE here than in US if the purchasing power is say 3 - 5 times lower?

That's a million dollar question that costs those headquarters idiots BILLIONS a year on unrecoverable losses!

You folks would probably be surprised, practically only government and big corporations even pay for software or ANYTHING here!

The households - I would expect the piracy to be at around 97 pct. I'm talking about software, music, movies - anything that you can pirate - well movies that changed during the last year, and here is why:

Now they bought cheap dvd licenses for the region and are popping dvd's for 3 bucks a piece - they immediately sell 10 000 - 50 000 units per title (for popular movies) on a 10 mil. market!

Well it took them only 20 years to figure out, that you can't sell in a shit country, where everyone is poor and a smart ass for the same price as in a real country!

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-26-2009, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

What I do know is tube sites are doing more and more reposts and the surfers realize it. If you follow tube sites and the user comments, you will see them complain when there is a repost. Point is, if legit webmasters started locking down their content the tube sites would slowly dry up from a lack of content. The surfer would get tired of the lack of new content and would slowly start to search out porn again.

It really is that easy.

Can you assure there will be no idiot in this world who will sell them full length tube licenses?

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-26-2009, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeCreep

The bottom line is, conversion ratios are worsening because overall net porn sales are declining year over year for the entire industry. Notice I did not say overall traffic is declining, just sales. There are less sales out there to be had, so the trick is to compensate by driving more traffic.

Yet that's exactly the point of this thread - good traffic is scarce, and the potential traffic pool you're trying to exploit might be even shrinking.

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-26-2009, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

Things do tend to swing and it would be nice if the law against pirating or using other people's content swung the other way a bit. Otherwise we are in for a long year and maybe a near death to the industry as we know it.

Internet law is a real complex thing, I have some minor experience as a fake lawyer as this is something I used to work in a couple years ago and I actually enjoyed it greatly and I still enjoy reading contracts (which is a rather useful hobby in my case) or all those legal columns in various magazines.

The question is - what do we want?

More control over the internet?

Less control over the internet?

There are a few now, that are benefiting from the chaos and fucking anyone who's playing "by the rules" in the ass and many are then "hurting" and screaming for regulation.

But the flip side of the coin is, what will happen if there will be more regulation?

Do we want to get to the same state as in Germany?

Where even if you play by their "rules" if they (be it whoever, state, government, someone who knows them) decide to shut you down, they'll almost certainly be able to shut you down?

My solution, in principle, would be to organize a crusade and push hard on anyone who's offering services to those motherfuckers.

But then again? Who has the balls, who has the morals, who has the dedication to do this?

Who will not want to burn the bridges if he would want to join the dark side someday?

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-26-2009, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budsbabes

people are still signing up for porn sites. but you're not going to find out why on gfy.

If I would publish my conversion ratios with bigsisterlive.com for the entire 2009, the whole GFY would call me out that I'm bragging and shit and they would do anything what they can to try to put me down.

I'll actually do it once I'll have all the promos up, why should I fucking care?

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-26-2009, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stever

i wouldnt panic until tubes film exclusive stuff covering every niche and put up great quality clips with new updates.

should be about another year until that happens so cash in quick or cash out.

If bandwith gets another 33 pct. cheaper I'm sure they'll hire one of the last content producers out there left in the business to do this for them!

SinisterStudios · 03-26-2009, 02:23 AM

What everyone has been saying for years is the affiliate model was going to go away, no one knew exactly when or how but we all knew it would eventually go away.

Welcome to that day, the affiliate model is dying a quick painful death. Programs have built up their traffic networks to a point they just dont need affiliates anymore.

Im so glad i saw this coming and got diversified and more heavily into the mainstream and social media. It was a great run, but if you make your living just being an adult affiliate your going ot have to rethink your strategy.

SGS · 03-26-2009, 03:30 AM

Been in the adult industry since 1982 and the business has evolved continually from magazines to VHS to DVD to web. The problem is that it got to the web and stopped to evolve for a lot of people and now those people are starting to suffer.

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-26-2009, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinisterStudios

What everyone has been saying for years is the affiliate model was going to go away, no one knew exactly when or how but we all knew it would eventually go away.

Welcome to that day, the affiliate model is dying a quick painful death. Programs have built up their traffic networks to a point they just dont need affiliates anymore.

Im so glad i saw this coming and got diversified and more heavily into the mainstream and social media. It was a great run, but if you make your living just being an adult affiliate your going ot have to rethink your strategy.

Completely agree, just one point - I don't see that many programs having their own traffic networks, unless they steal traffic from others with the DMCA tube clusterfuck bullshit.

Also, try to buy a free site these days, what will be the price?

One third of what it would be one year ago?

And what guarantee you'll actually have that the trend that the traffic is lowering will not continue for years to come?

What now? You want to put out your whole members area on your own tube site to upsell a couple bucks to dating?

Cause that's the only way you can do if you compete with full length bullshit and say you market the GENERAL stuff.

Is this the evolution?

I call this devolution and an epochal fail,

Idiots used to make money, good money

Unfortunately, technology enabled those idiots to steal from other idiots in more volume than ever, and to kick their own asses by completely devaluating the traffic pool.

And that's what happens now.

Some might still keep their eyes closed, some might be doing good money if they are niche targeted and diversified etc.

But I doubt anyone can deny this general trend.

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-26-2009, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGS

Been in the adult industry since 1982 and the business has evolved continually from magazines to VHS to DVD to web. The problem is that it got to the web and stopped to evolve for a lot of people and now those people are starting to suffer.

Well, wasn't the whole past evolution actually all kinds of various distribution models based on the model of "tease and get them to pay"?

Who are we teasing now?

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-26-2009, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I'm still here so long after so many predicted my demise.

What people really hated about those $5 sites was the idea that $5 would solve the needs of the surfers. Heaven forbid him not having to spend $30 so we could all earn a living. Welcome to the results.

And yes still get sign ups on http://www.5dollarsporn.com/ not a lot but never worked it. Now I have the CMS I have other problems.

You know Paul, you know I like you and you're about 1000 years older than me and you shoot porn since women had more fur than pussy etc.

But it's bullshit, you can't do 5 dollar porn, they don't give a fuck if they can fuck you for 5 dollars or 30 dollars, they just don't give a fuck unless it's not something they won't find for free or something they want, which, and I don't want to cause you any more health problems, but your teenie content is cool and professional and nice models and everything, but it's definitely not unique.

You also have your fixed bandwith costs etc., someone has to update this, someone has to keep an eye about every aspect, you have to keep an eye on billers if they don't fuck you over, you need to SOMEHOW get traffic (and I would be interested what would be your plan for 5 bucks sites). ...

You want to do some profit margins, you don't want to devaluate your business or even your other assets.

Since you talk about your stuff, allow me [B]to talk about my business, and yes it's MINE business, because I spent YEARS of my life, from the first day since I applied for the job to the investor, since I went through all the promotions and get rid of all the people that stood in the way to make this work,

I spend YEARS to make this something that doesn't have a direct competition worldwide (I sure hope I'll make a dime while everything is finally tested and proven and I'll do a huge one man marketing offensive soon).

BUT, LET'S GET BACK TO THE POINT:

I know I COULDN'T get below 39.95 USD with bigsisterlive.com, cause I'm offering VALUE for the MONEY!

Do the simple maths, we're paying every single week:

- livecam girls to chat with the members, a fixed cost

- the club, the waitress, security, the pool cleaning, the fucking bathtub, an administrative fat ass who cares so the drinks for the bar are in place, the cleaning service,the electriciity so a couple idiots from Italy or anywhere else can get free sex in front of the cams and fail in a live broadcast

- the club, the waitress, security, the pool cleaning, the cleaning service, the fucking bathtub, an administrative fat ass, who cares so the drinks for the bar are in place, the electriciity so a couple horny couples can get drunk and a buffet for free and fuck each other each Saturday in a live broadcast

- security, the pool cleaning, the cleaning service, the fucking bathtub, an administrative fat ass, who cares so the drinks for the bar are in place, the electricity so a couple horny couples can shoot their own sex DVD and fuck each other each Sunday in a live broadcast

- we're building a new studio now where we will be able to syndicate hardcore real people shows with cam providers

- the whole start up investition into the real estate, location, straemintg setup, hardware, proprietary cam control soltion in 2004 was 5M EUR (I was not with the company, and I'm also not saying, that, with the experience I have now that it wouldn'e be possible to notably cut it)

- the result is over 9000 exclusive videos so far for the members (ok say 1 500 of it is exceptional and the rest is just archived voyeur stuff with real pople for the fans of particular girls or etc,)

- a minimum of 32 hours of exclusive live hardcore content with real people INCLUDED in the membership, we have at least 15 - 20 couples in the house over each day of the weekend

- on top of that we DO update weekly 4 exclusive updates of never before seen fun, swingers, real couples stuff, shit that's NOT on the web because no one ever invested so much to do something this risky plue a couple recorded live streams from each day of live broadcast so they can watch something if they missed it

- Renting also additional feeds next week - If I'm gonna update 5 more video updates every week, I'll have enough additional updates for 120 weeks to come, if you want a referal I'll give you the company name

- Renting also additional live feeds next week - an access to additional hardcore shows, especially for the US members and their timezone, those are the single most growing group among the members, loyal and without a hassle (as opposed to Germans that will ALWAYS bitch)

- plus two actual real support people who are on webcam over the broadcast time to talk with the members and do news and announcements etc. I know I'll most probably get rid one of them as she's fuckin up a lot lately and every not timely or silly response fucks with the members confidence and you're on a way for them to cancel

We're paying FOR ALL OF THIS to get the PRODUCT - and that's what I do - I offer a VALUE and I want THEIR MONEY! What should be wrong with that?

I want them to realize all the great things they get, and I want them to fill in that fucking join form, I want them to pull out the damn credit card and to hit the submit button!

Sorry, I'm not EVER going to lower the price of the membership.

Paul Markham · 03-26-2009, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinisterStudios

What everyone has been saying for years is the affiliate model was going to go away, no one knew exactly when or how but we all knew it would eventually go away.

Welcome to that day, the affiliate model is dying a quick painful death. Programs have built up their traffic networks to a point they just dont need affiliates anymore.

Im so glad i saw this coming and got diversified and more heavily into the mainstream and social media. It was a great run, but if you make your living just being an adult affiliate your going ot have to rethink your strategy.

The affiliate model will not die, it will evolve though. More and more sponsors will realise the present business model and payments can not work in the future. The pot is getting smaller whether affiliates like it or not. Money can be spent on them sending traffic to sites with falling ratios, but the end of that line can be bankruptcy.

What I think will happen is affiliates will need to become more independent and look after themselves. The days of having a team supporting them are not over, not for every site, but it's getting close.

This is I'm sure general and what many sponsors have said to me. The guys that need the least support, hear from the least and are the least trouble. SEND THE MOST JOINS.

Today a sponsor can spend money on the traffic or the site. One leads to more traffic, the other should lead to more sign ups. Where would people here spend the money?

Paul Markham · 03-26-2009, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

I know I COULDN'T get below 39.95 USD with bigsisterlive.com, cause I'm offering VALUE for the MONEY!

- the result is over 9000 exclusive videos so far for the members (ok say 1 500 of it is exceptional and the rest is just archived voyeur stuff with real pople for the fans of particular girls or etc,)

- a minimum of 32 hours of exclusive live hardcore content with real people INCLUDED in the membership, we have at least 15 - 20 couples in the house over each day of the weekend

- on top of that we DO update weekly 4 exclusive updates of never before seen fun, swingers, real couples stuff, shit that's NOT on the web because no one ever invested so much to do something this risky plue a couple recorded live streams from each day of live broadcast so they can watch something if they missed it

Sorry, I'm not EVER going to lower the price of the membership.

You're not offering value for money to the guy who wants to sign up for a day because he won't be able to watch tomorrow or wants to test the site before he commits to a month or the guy who does commit and realises it's not as good as he thought. Whether it's good or not is not the question, it's his perception.

We all think we offer great value for money. Problem is it's what the customers think that matters.

$5 for 1-2 days might appeal to a lot more and if the site is as good as you say they will upgrade if they want 30 days. You have to believe and agree with that. Or are you scared these guys won't upgrade?

I run trials and not worried about them upgrading. With all what you're offering I'm sure they would upgrade as well. Only reason not to is they don't need the other 28 days because they won't be able to view or they don't think it's worth viewing.

In todays market the guys who buy trials don't buy anything else, sites that don't offer them don't get their business. There are enough sites that do. Even though yours is a unique product.

The $5 porn site idea was something my CMS could not handle, it was built to run the content stores and adapted to run one paysite. Your question about how would I of got traffic at $5 a join is interesting. Are you saying affiliates demand we charge $39.95 or just that the cost of getting the traffic means you have to charge $39.95?

What ever you say is right it says more than you know and shows how Tubes operate and able to give away content. They don't have those costs. Maybe so long as we do have those costs we will always be competition to us.

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-27-2009, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You're not offering value for money to the guy who wants to sign up for a day because he won't be able to watch tomorrow or wants to test the site before he commits to a month or the guy who does commit and realises it's not as good as he thought. Whether it's good or not is not the question, it's his perception.

You know what will make me the best marketer in the world?

Once I will know exactly what every customer wants.

They have there a trial - a 7 day trial so they can see the whole program before deciding if to cancel or not - and it works so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

We all think we offer great value for money. Problem is it's what the customers think that matters.

Ok, and show me sites that offer livecams, live hardcore, frequent updates, all exclusive, and they can even come and fuck in front of the cams if they have the balls and dick to do so.

So what should I be afraid of? What's the fear?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

$5 for 1-2 days might appeal to a lot more and if the site is as good as you say they will upgrade if they want 30 days. You have to believe and agree with that. Or are you scared these guys won't upgrade?

As I mentioned, they have 7 days to see the whole program if they prefer a trial. And I still want them to pay at least those 12 bucks for the trial because they're costing you bandwith (with live video included), they engage support, it has to always be more expensive than if you would subscribe for monthly etc. - it's simple economics.

Where is your point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I run trials and not worried about them upgrading. With all what you're offering I'm sure they would upgrade as well. Only reason not to is they don't need the other 28 days because they won't be able to view or they don't think it's worth viewing.

As I mentioned, that's why they get the whole 7 days to see EVERYTHING a weekly program offers. I've changed it from the 3 day trial and it works much better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

In todays market the guys who buy trials don't buy anything else, sites that don't offer them don't get their business. There are enough sites that do. Even though yours is a unique product.

Again, that's why there is the 7 day trial, I won't ever do a shorter and cheaper trial again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The $5 porn site idea was something my CMS could not handle, it was built to run the content stores and adapted to run one paysite. Your question about how would I of got traffic at $5 a join is interesting. Are you saying affiliates demand we charge $39.95 or just that the cost of getting the traffic means you have to charge $39.95?

If you would want me to persuade to send you a traffic for a $5 site you would have to offer me at least something like 20 $ for 1000 uniques.

So if you would pay me $ 2,50 net per each sign up I would need to make 8 sign ups at an average ratio of 1:125.

Can be done?

Sure, but I would pull the links once the ratio would decline.

How much would YOU make? Would you also leave the money from rebills on the table?

Talk about the opportunity cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

What ever you say is right it says more than you know and shows how Tubes operate and able to give away content. They don't have those costs. Maybe so long as we do have those costs we will always be competition to us.

Let's keep it simple - they have huge bandwith costs, but that's it.
For the rest cares the DMCA.

And they have sponsors, who wire them money on their account every month, so they can steal traffic to send to them.

Traffic, that was also probably marketed in a legit way before, it's yours traffic, it's my traffic, it's our traffic, it's traffic we owned, but it's gone now.

It's practically financing a a third perty to do a theft for you, I don't see how was no one ever able to put one and one together yet.

Maybe lawyers are too expensive? May be..

d-null · 03-27-2009, 02:22 AM

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-27-2009, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The affiliate model will not die, it will evolve though. More and more sponsors will realise the present business model and payments can not work in the future. The pot is getting smaller whether affiliates like it or not. Money can be spent on them sending traffic to sites with falling ratios, but the end of that line can be bankruptcy.

What I think will happen is affiliates will need to become more independent and look after themselves. The days of having a team supporting them are not over, not for every site, but it's getting close.

This is I'm sure general and what many sponsors have said to me. The guys that need the least support, hear from the least and are the least trouble. SEND THE MOST JOINS.

Today a sponsor can spend money on the traffic or the site. One leads to more traffic, the other should lead to more sign ups. Where would people here spend the money?

Yeah, it's evolving already, they are brokering the traffic they can't convert via traffic brokers for 8c / k

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-27-2009, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BV

Not everything is solvable. You have to evolve not solve.

Yes, and what is the evolution?

Evolution should mean more advancement, more effectiveness, more advanced technology, better know how, making more with less.

Who evolves?

The surfer - SURE - he gets more porn for less than ever

The marketers - NO WAY - they get less money for more porn offered than ever

They devolve, they fucked up the traffic pool forever, it's not tease and pay anymore, it's make them tired of jerking off and hope you sell them something during their 50th visit, when they already burned $10 bucks worth of your bandwith.

Again, I'm talking about the general niche here. You can always make bank if you target the right audience with the right product without an overload of free substitute around.

But the general niche has no direction available to evolve anymore.

Paul Markham · 03-27-2009, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

You know what will make me the best marketer in the world?

Once I will know exactly what every customer wants.

They have there a trial - a 7 day trial so they can see the whole program before deciding if to cancel or not - and it works so far.

So is that trial $39.95?

No you are offering them 7 days for $12 so you are offering them an option and after testing it you found this one works the best.

I stopped reading pass there because you seem to agree with me about giving the surfers options.

mopek1 · 03-27-2009, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atticus

It has to do with a combination of free porn and the mass amount of SHITTY PORN YOU ARE TRYING TO SELL!!

I believe that this is the biggest problem ... EVERY single new porn site out there looks EXACTLY like every other porn site out there but program owners still scream - BEST CONVERSIONS! UNIQUE CONTENT !! TOTALLY NEW !!!

No ... No and .... No !! I look at the previews to all these new sites and cringe. What should I expect my surfers to do?

I know my income would triple if I just had some good stuff to promote and there is VERY little out there. I know because I scour the net everyday looking for a new gem. Haven't found one in over 18 months.

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-27-2009, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mopek1

I believe that this is the biggest problem ... EVERY single new porn site out there looks EXACTLY like every other porn site out there but program owners still scream - BEST CONVERSIONS! UNIQUE CONTENT !! TOTALLY NEW !!!

No ... No and .... No !! I look at the previews to all these new sites and cringe. What should I expect my surfers to do?

I know my income would triple if I just had some good stuff to promote and there is VERY little out there. I know because I scour the net everyday looking for a new gem. Haven't found one in over 18 months.

The only excuse you have is that our brand new site is up just shortly and I haven't really promoted it much yet, since we were all thrilled how will the numbers look like with something that's far from ordinary not only in the concept, but also in its presentation.

polish_aristocrat · 03-27-2009, 06:16 AM

I am not one of those Paul Markham haters but I don't really understand some of his usual points.

Today it doesn't matter that much if the price is $5 or $30.

First of all, 99% of porn surfers can be satisfied with the content freely availably on tubes.
Second, those remaining 1% might be scared to join pornsites because of things like: * hidden cross sales * afraid of being rebilled or having difficulty to cancel * not finding inside the members area what it promisses... or one of the old reasons -*wife reading the CC statement.... or.. * being afraid to be spammed to death (lots of people use one main e-mail address, don't have 5 different ones, and don't feel like creating one just for joining a pornsite) etc...

lack of innovation in porn (reality sites are played out since a long time) and bad economy obviously have an effect as well, but the effect of economy is not that big as some people would hope it is.....

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-27-2009, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sysgenix

I think the 1:100+ going towards the 1:500+ for people relates to as well a lot of countries coming on board that simply do not have the payment systems.

Free sites that have 30-40% turkey, india traffic a few years ago were unheard of, now they are everywhere, and they are big. That has to acccount for a bit of the drop that people see in conversions. Just have to adjust to different billing options.

And here's the only GOOD point about the illegal tube sites.

Well, these people can't pay, so - practically, the whole free porn explosion is the new age sexual revolution in the third world!

We've brought porn to the third world countries!

How does sex look like outside of the orthodox school books or National Geographic?

Now everyone can watch how people fuck in Los Angeles and how Donny Long handles a hermaphrodite, stone cold and with glance and style!

Jerking off became the universal language of the new millenium!

CamJack · 03-27-2009, 08:50 AM

Guerilla Traffic's overall business has increased over the past two years. We have already surpassed last years numbers and it isn't even April yet. I think the 4 million unemployed people and the huge influx of new affiliates on the market have helped our business. There's more people on the internet every day, therefore this is more traffic. You just need to know how to get it.

Now conversation rates are a different story.......

Battle Me

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-27-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rigrunner

Tried doing that last month to Xtube, vid deleted before it was up because it's 'spam' telling me their users are there for the free porn and only the free porn. Sponsors supporting the tubes should be cracking down on this but they don't they follow quick cash...

Well,

In other words, with this strategy - it's more and more traffic attracted and retained at places, where you can't really exploit its entire potential anymore.

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-27-2009, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinky John

agree with the above ^

i'm sure some SURFERS are now banking more than many webmasters
via PPC surfer referrals to filehosts from the high traffic p2p forums..
so content thieves are now being PAID to share content illegally
imo this financial incentive is accelerating the fileshare problem

Again, someone is banking on something he doesn't (or does?) have rights to bank on

It's like someone could steal your purse in a certain part of the city and unless you would notify him with what exactly he stole in a written letter, he shouldn't get it back to you, and he can use all what he stole to you, it wouldn't matter who's the owner and how many people he robs

Is this the legislation that should be taken seriously?

.:R I O:. · 03-28-2009, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni

Interesting post, some of my thoughts on that:

>Where did the traffic that used to reside and hit the affiliate promos / free sites / mgp's / blogs etc. go?
Much is going to tube sites, just check the global 100 and you can find porn tubes there, not to count the thousands of small tubes. No more downloading, simply click and watch, couldn?t be easier and all for free.

>How about some place with even more free full length porn and NO affiliate links in it?
Looking for the latest porn dvd? Surfers download it over a torrent?

>Or did many stop to jack off and joined the monastery? Or did they stop using internet? I wouldn't expect that.
They visit let?s porn sites and more social networks, here is an article from 2007 about facebook being more popular than porn:
http://www.time.com/time/business/ar...678586,00.html
6 Months ago Facebook had 100 Million users, now 150 million. So there is a trend?

So I'll never send my traffic to dating sites. If suefers cant find more friends,they have to watch porn themself at home!

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-28-2009, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:R I O:.

So I'll never send my traffic to dating sites. If suefers cant find more friends,they have to watch porn themself at home!

james_clickmemedia · 03-28-2009, 04:22 AM

How people search for porn has changed. it's now all social networking & u tube type sites that attract the surfers. They bookmark these sites because they give away so much for free. After a while though these same surfers do test out the links to the paysites however no where near as much as they used to.

With mgp everything was free however you only got a small poor quality sample and 8 of the 10 times you would click on a link you would get traded to another mpg or free site so they surfer go upset and joined a paysite because the quality was better and they did not get jerked around..

slapass · 03-28-2009, 08:34 AM

Because a lot of us are geeks, we don't realize how big of a deal a tube site is. Torrents have more stuff etc but most people can't and won't use them but a tube is easy. Your 50 year old American with a wallet full of CC's no longer needs to pay and that is what is hurting us.

I do like the idea of policing the content. If tubes got stale it would help a lot.

03-25-2009, 10:24 AM	#102
crockett in a van by the river Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 76,806	Blame the tubes.. Yes really not just a catch phrase. Two years or so ago affiliates actually promoted the paysites by using galleries or sending traffic directly to the tours from their main pages. Now days Affiliates and thieves that run illegal tubes send their traffic to dating and cam sites. No big surprise there is less traffic going to paysite tours these days, it's because no one promotes the paysites they just use the content to promote dating and cams. Even the legal tubes, blogs and TGP's do the same these days.. Affiliate programs need to start putting their foot down as to how many adds can be on the same page as their promotional content. __________________ In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator. Last edited by crockett; 03-25-2009 at 10:26 AM..

03-25-2009, 11:08 PM	#117
Sysgenix Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 287	I think the 1:100+ going towards the 1:500+ for people relates to as well a lot of countries coming on board that simply do not have the payment systems. Free sites that have 30-40% turkey, india traffic a few years ago were unheard of, now they are everywhere, and they are big. That has to acccount for a bit of the drop that people see in conversions. Just have to adjust to different billing options. __________________ Ads available on ebony niche site.

03-25-2009, 11:21 PM	#118
rigrunner Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: UK Posts: 877	You make a page about a pornstar, monitor the hits to it, you'll see google searches along the lines of 'pornstarname video rapidshare', 'pornstarname torrent' , 'pornstarname downloads' so even those not savvy in the technologies are certainly looking for ways to get it free. Re-educating the surfer would be a tough thing to do but the industry could start with the tubes, instead of supporting them go back to the 2 min tease videos. Back when tubes started I'd post this way with my URL on the end, made a lot of cash.... Tried doing that last month to Xtube, vid deleted before it was up because it's 'spam' telling me their users are there for the free porn and only the free porn. Sponsors supporting the tubes should be cracking down on this but they don't they follow quick cash... __________________ Get Nasty - Make Bank Here

03-26-2009, 02:23 AM	#128
SinisterStudios Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Joisey Posts: 3,087	What everyone has been saying for years is the affiliate model was going to go away, no one knew exactly when or how but we all knew it would eventually go away. Welcome to that day, the affiliate model is dying a quick painful death. Programs have built up their traffic networks to a point they just dont need affiliates anymore. Im so glad i saw this coming and got diversified and more heavily into the mainstream and social media. It was a great run, but if you make your living just being an adult affiliate your going ot have to rethink your strategy. __________________ SEOIP.com Multiple IP Webhosting Shared and Dedicated IP's - Multiple Class A's - From $1.99/ip

03-26-2009, 03:30 AM	#129
SGS Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mallorca - Nottingham Posts: 5,176	Been in the adult industry since 1982 and the business has evolved continually from magazines to VHS to DVD to web. The problem is that it got to the web and stopped to evolve for a lot of people and now those people are starting to suffer. __________________ See sig...

03-25-2009, 10:22 AM	#101
O MARINA I'm clockin' ya, Versace shade watchin' ya Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: internet Posts: 13,795	100----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

03-27-2009, 02:22 AM	#136
d-null . . . Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NY Posts: 13,724	__________________ __________________ Looking for a custom TUBE SCRIPT that supports massive traffic, load balancing, billing support, and h264 encoding? Hit up Konrad! Looking for designs for your websites or custom tubesite design? Hit up Zuzana Designs Check out the #1 WordPress SEO Plugin: CyberSEO Suite

03-27-2009, 06:16 AM	#142
polish_aristocrat Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 40,377	I am not one of those Paul Markham haters but I don't really understand some of his usual points. Today it doesn't matter that much if the price is $5 or $30. First of all, 99% of porn surfers can be satisfied with the content freely availably on tubes. Second, those remaining 1% might be scared to join pornsites because of things like: * hidden cross sales * afraid of being rebilled or having difficulty to cancel * not finding inside the members area what it promisses... or one of the old reasons -wife reading the CC statement.... or.. being afraid to be spammed to death (lots of people use one main e-mail address, don't have 5 different ones, and don't feel like creating one just for joining a pornsite) etc... lack of innovation in porn (reality sites are played out since a long time) and bad economy obviously have an effect as well, but the effect of economy is not that big as some people would hope it is..... __________________ I don't use ICQ anymore.

03-27-2009, 08:50 AM	#144
CamJack Old School Webmaster Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 1,334	Guerilla Traffic's overall business has increased over the past two years. We have already surpassed last years numbers and it isn't even April yet. I think the 4 million unemployed people and the huge influx of new affiliates on the market have helped our business. There's more people on the internet every day, therefore this is more traffic. You just need to know how to get it. Now conversation rates are a different story....... Battle Me __________________ Skype: promote.promote [email protected] Last edited by CamJack; 03-27-2009 at 08:52 AM..

03-28-2009, 04:22 AM	#149
james_clickmemedia Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Texas / London Posts: 2,204	How people search for porn has changed. it's now all social networking & u tube type sites that attract the surfers. They bookmark these sites because they give away so much for free. After a while though these same surfers do test out the links to the paysites however no where near as much as they used to. With mgp everything was free however you only got a small poor quality sample and 8 of the 10 times you would click on a link you would get traded to another mpg or free site so they surfer go upset and joined a paysite because the quality was better and they did not get jerked around.. __________________ $ CLICKMEMEDIA.COM $ CONVERTING ETHNIC TRAFFIC SINCE 1998 ~ $30+PPS BLACK-X.COM - NEW BLACK EX-GF SITE CLICKMEMEDIA.COM ~ ICQ - 8788771

03-28-2009, 08:34 AM	#150
slapass Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 14,622	Because a lot of us are geeks, we don't realize how big of a deal a tube site is. Torrents have more stuff etc but most people can't and won't use them but a tube is easy. Your 50 year old American with a wallet full of CC's no longer needs to pay and that is what is hurting us. I do like the idea of policing the content. If tubes got stale it would help a lot.