Barefootsies

Graph of 'reasons' a member cancels their membership on pay site.


This is still very high for people claiming income issues. I see a lot of this as the cancel reason in the past 12 months! At least there are still many satisfied customers and few complaints.



Do you track your members? If so, what are your stats?

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ThumbLord

interesting

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Mr. Cool Ice

I don't believe they tell the truth when they cancel. I don't. I just select something as quick as I can because I have shit to do. I don't have time to better your porn business.

But that's just me.

ParlourCash Karl

We have quite a few bank denials and just moving on, but you still get the one's saying not enough updates or don't like the site. Funny enough the ones not liking the site or not enough updates are those that download everything they can during their membership. We update twice a week and members are happy with that...we used to update 5 times a week but found that members appreciate the content more at twice a week...supose a case of too much of a good thing.

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gideongallery

holy fuck 4% was a minor using the credit card.

that means you guys are distributing porn to minors 4% of the time

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notime

Is this pic from Xbizworld/premiere, researched by pornworld and VegasKen?

seeandsee

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Iron Fist

You must of missed statistics....

You'll notice the graph is in increments of 4% for all groups. Which means the sample size is very small... but a multiple of 4. So... I'll guess the amount of subscriptions canceling in this graph is 24 subscribers where 4% = 1 subscriber.

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SilentKnight

Where is the percentage that Verotel alleges were DDEU chargebacks from Germany?

DonovanTrent

Wrong, it means that parents didn't do their job and didn't keep their credit card where little Jimmy couldn't get his mitts on it, the little bastard.

Are you a minor, by the way?

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gideongallery

well 1 it would have had to 25 subscribers not 24
you can't get 4% out 1/24

second the satisfied members is shown in that list at 52%

third i don't think you would have a paysite with only 24 members

as the membership number increased the number of minors sold porn too would increase.

so if you had 100 members you would sell porn to 4 minors

and so on as you increased.

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gideongallery

interesting how you shirk all responsibilty when it is your business
but when tube and torrent sites do exactly the same thing with the safe harbor provision you bitch and whin about how it is so "unfair" and expect the laws to change to hold them responsible.

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DonovanTrent

1) It's not my responsibility to keep parents' credit cards out of their children's hands.
2) You've developed a perfect ironclad adult verification system?
3) Since you bring it up, the tubes and torrent sites you embrace are far far worse for putting porn of all flavors into the hands of children with little or no boundaries, copyright violations notwithstanding.

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GregE

Moreover, by not having any 2257 documents the tubes can't even be sure that they're not serving up cp

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gideongallery

1. neither is it the tubes site to be responsible to police your copyright
2. sure the same one you want for tubes, shut down your operation until you can prove the person is an adult (=shut down until you prove you own the content)
3. but law doesn't make them liable for that either.

you need to look in the mirror a little there when using the pot calling the kettle black anology. I am not the one making an arguement one way when it helps my business, but the exact opposite when it runs against my business.

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DonovanTrent

GideonGallery, you continually make arguments that have flawed logic in them and serve only as attempts to justify a "new economy" built on wholesale copyright violation aided and abetted by poorly written legislation. I am done arguing with you, I may as well be debating with a donkey. All it does is ruin threads, and I'm convinced that's your only reason for being here.

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Dirty Dane

The torrents sites are distributing it, and they give a shit about it. For instance, Pirate bay was raided by swedish police.

Dirty Dane

I started reading porn magazines when I was 12-13 years old. I wonder what the other 96% did??

GregE

You don't carry too many clues in your pocket, do you?

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Dirty Dane

Stats are more useful as time series. Do you have stats for earlier year(s)/monthly changes? Would be interesting to see if things like income issues has changed

gideongallery

what i said was statement of fact, you are distributing porn to minors 4 % of the time if 4% of all cancelations are because a minor got the credit card.
It doesn't matter what you justification you came too you gave porn to minors.

You were the one who shirked the responsibility by blaming the parents

if the laws are poorly written, then the ones that let you off the hook for your distributing of porn to minors are equally poorly written.


so not being a hypocrite = clueless.

funny

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will76

I'm sure porn is distributed to minors more than 4% of the time. I would bet that there is a pretty high % of sufers hitting porn sites that are minors. This graph shows the reasons why people cancelled his porn membership site, so if you want to be acurate you can say that 4% of his customers cancelled because a minor joined his site, assuming that they were telling the truth.

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will76

the only way to prevent minors from seeing porn would be to first put all nudity in members protected areas. Second would be to make sure the person using the card is the actual card holder and is over 18...

Ok, any suggestions on how to do that? It is impossible for a porn site owner to prevent minors from seeing porn. If by some way we had the prospective member send in his dna for dna testing to make sure he is the actual person, or we sent someone to their house to check their id, or what ever other methods to prove the person using the card is the card holder and over 18... if all of this was done by porn site owners it would accomplish nothing as most of the minors don't pay for porn anyway, they go to tube sites and torrents to watch porn where it is 100% free and there is no restrictions what so ever.

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will76

1. (Assuming the site does not show any porn in the free area). Adult membership sites require a valid credit card to access the member's area to see porn. That is an "action", a safe guard to keep most minors out as the vast majority of people who own credit cards are over 18.
Tube sites require no safe checks what so ever for people to upload videos. "do you own the content, yes: [x] " is not a safe guard. Tube sites could do several things to put safe guards in place, ask the person who made the video themselves to hold up a sign saying or say" this is for redtube!" It is great branding for the tube site and they instantly know the person who is submitting the clip is the owner of the clip.
Stealing is one thing, but what I don't like about tube sites is that people can upload CP to it without proving the person is of legal age. Legally they don't have to but that is just my personal thoughts, if they uploaded a copy of their id then the tube site owner could match the picture to t he id and know that 1, the person is over legal age and 2, if they in the video, there is no copyright issues.

2. You can't prove someone is an adult, its not possible. If you have any suggestions let me know. You can prove someone owns the content pretty easy as I explained above a couple ways.

3. Correct, the law currently doesn't do anything to prevent either issues. Although depending on where you live you can go to jail for showing a nipple and the person seeing it doesnt have to be under 18 either. You can also get fined out your ass for sharing music.

My solution, I wish they would go after the offendors in both cases. The child knows they are not suppose to use a credit card that is not theirs = THEFT, prosocute the little bastard and fine his parents if he is a repeat offender. The minor also knows they are not suppose to join porn sites just like they are not suppose to go the liquir store and steal booze and cigs. Minors will get what they want one way or the other, they are committing the illegal act.

I see people who knowingly share copyrighted content the same way as minors. They know what they are doing is wrong and they still do it. (although tube sites do ZERO to try to stop them). I still don't know why porn site owners don't do with the music industry has done and go after people who UPLOAD with hefty fines. They should be subpoening the tube site for the logs on the user who uploaded their copyrighted content. Get their email, info, ip, etc... sure some wont be traceable, but most will. Hit this people with hefty fines. THEY BROKE THE LAW, I don't think even you can contest that. Turn it up full force, sue everyone of them you can on all the big sites, then see how much copyrighted content gets uploaded. What will happen next is tube sites will deal with sponsors directly for the content or buy their own (which is happening a lot now ) and they wont accept true member submitted content. Which solves the problem that way as well.

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Barefootsies

Answers:

This is a brand new site I launched a couple of months back.

Yes. I will be interesting to see the long term numbers over time.

There are more than 24 members.

This site is not processed by Verotel.

Donovan makes some good points in examples.

Stats are more true than not. People do not simply 'click whatever because they have better things to do'. I routinely contact members to ask for feedback, even offering up free month membership for their time to give me some feedback.

will76 provides some good feedback on such matters.

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Iron Fist

For the record I didn't say there was 24 members in total... I SAID there was 24 members who CANCELLED.. which is what the graph is supposed to represent.

Who knows what the time frame on this is... could be one day or one year... that we don't know.

Wow you guys.... seriously.

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tony286

Ive had a few longtime members cancel because of job loss. we give them a free month as our way of saying thanks

tony286

also because they said a minor used a card doesnt mean a minor actually used a card

Ron Bennett

From looking at the stats, I'd say "Income Issues" is likely more than 20%...

It's very possible for one to be both a "Satisfied Customer" and have "Income Issues" ... so it's highly probable, especially with the lousy economy, that many of them too really canceled due to income issues.

$29 per month recurring or whatever, while seemingly a small amount to many here, is a noticeable amount of money to many people struggling to make ends meet.

In regards to "Minor Used Card" ... take that question off the survey pronto; change the wording to "Someone else used my card" or "I don't remember signing up to this site", etc.

Ron

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Iron Fist

A lot of people pick Satisfied Customer so they don't think there will be any further follow up as to other reasons. Who wants a pornmaster phoning you up when the wife wasn't supposed to know you were surfing in the first place?

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gideongallery

goodbye parody, goodbye commentary goodbye every fair use

hell goodbye using the same content across multiple tube sites to promote yourself


your above solution significantly reduces the marketplace for a tube site

you could require an independent verification, phone and address verification
hell new computers have biomentrics your could go that far. It would totally screw you over in terms of your total market size, but since your above solution does the same to tube sites, it would be hypocritical to complain.

any way if you were criminally liable for each one of these joins i am pretty certain you would come up with solution that reduces that number to zero.


thank god i am canadian


you do realize that the "liquir store" also get sanctioned. They get fines and may get procecuted for selling the booze and cigs to the minor.

you get an extra immunity level because of the anominity of the internet.


first of all there are privacy laws to worry about.
Second you better absolutely positive since if there is any doubt publically exposing "their porn habits" could have a massive liablity.
3rd there are fair use considerations to take into account
i have seen a lot of compilation videos (commentary)
and there is usually multiple pages of comments on each video. (commentary again).
4th the RIAA spend 3.25 for each dollar of judgement they got, and every win is being appealed over and over again now.
Most end up with ruling in the favor of the sharer.



user submitted is the biggest competitive advantage a tube site can have, they would be stupid to give it up.

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Barefootsies

No offense toots. I must have misunderstood.

I was trying to answer everyone in one reply.

My apologies champ.

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Barefootsies

If I did not get the e-mails I do from customers, or interact with them on their scripts for scenes, their ideas, their issues on most things. I would probably accept your ASSumptions at face value.

However, since a lot of my customer base are on newsletters. Write me. Have been members of my various sites for a decade. I know that my numbers are more accurate then not.

But then again, I am also very interactive and accessible to my membership, and patrons. So unlike most webmasters or programs that treat them like some nameless face who's credit card I can't wait to bang for 4 x's what they wanted, or fuck em over since they are a one time only customer.... so I had better get every nickel out of them I can on one shot. My customer base is not like that.

I am an enigma in many different ways to how I run my business, and why I remain in business with many many returning patrons.

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will76

sure it does if 99% of the content they receive is stolen content . If they can't prove they own the content they are submitting then tube sites couldn't use stolen content. pretty simple 1+1=2 logic there.


Now if someone is submitting self produced content then how hard is it for them to record themselves saying " this is for xtube or redtube". You mean to tell me they can make a 5 minute or 50 minute video doing whatever but they cant make a 5 second clip to say " this is for whatever site"?

the minor who has his daddy's credit card will also know his own address lol. If you call him on the phone how can you tell if someone is 17 or 18 on the phone? there would be nothing to match the biomentrics to.

If i was criminally liable because a minor stole his dads credit card and joined my site to see nudity, I wouldn't be in the adult business because everyone of us would be sitting ducks. Now if I was liable because someone stole a credit card to access porn, what do you think would happen to the tube sites that show graphic nudity that had no safe guards in place. At least in my case the minor would have to commit a crime to access the nudity.


I'm proud to be an american even though some of our laws are stupid. It could be a lot worse.



Really i never heard about the ones in favor of the sharer just the ones that got nailed with 100K's of thousands of dollars in fines. Actually I think it is safe to say most "settle" from what I heard. It's those few that don't that got nailed with crazy fines.

So if it cost more to litagate than what the judgements are, or collected judgements.... How much do you think these membership sites are losing because their product is being stolen and shared for free by these people. You are not factoring in the intangibles, that if the porn industry went after people aggressivly it might spend 1 million dollars to get back 300K in cash, but it would reduce people from "sharing" errr... stealing. The less your product is stolen and given away the more sales you going to make. Also, it is stupid to make 100K judgements against these people. 99% of the people stealing content and sharing it are not going to be able to afford to fork over 100K. Just sue their ass for an amount that 99% of them can afford, or that isn't too big that they wont want to go bankrupt over. If they need to get a second mortgage on their house to pay a 10K fine because they thought it was cool to steal content and share it with 1000's of people, then hit them where it does the most damage. And every month they pay off that mortgage they might think twice about how cool it was.


The "sharer" is a thief. He knows he does not have a legal right to distribute the content. That is cut and dry. The tube site is the grey area and has level of protection currently at least.



I know of at least 1 top tube site that only works with content they own or only select programs they do business with, I am pretty sure a good bit more do it. It is also very easy to fake user submitted quality content.

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Elli

Very interesting. I looked at mine for 2009 and got a bit different results:

Satisfied(Satisfied Customer) 80%
Income(Income issues) 9.5%
Unsatisfied(Not satisfied with content) 5%
Trial(Only interested in trial subscription) 3%

I'm going to assume that lots of those who are "satisfied" are leaving not necc. due to income issues but due to cutting back expenses or the like. Maybe they didn't lose their job, but they have to trim some discretionary spending.

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Barefootsies

I have some members to my sites who pop back as members every OTHER month for whatever reason. As mentioned before, I recognize a lot of the same e-mails when they have been customers for years. So I see when they rejoin 1-3 months later, or when they cancel their recurring, and then buy a lot of clips via clip stores.

I have contacted people many times, even those satisfied. Some simply say they have no complaints, and will be back. Others say they spread their membership dollars between a few sites and do not like recurring because they forget. Others have some different reasons.

All in all they are pretty straight forward in their replies. They have nothing to lose telling me the truth. It is not like I am going to ban them for their replies. However, I like to keep my finger on the pulse of what members want. You also can learn a lot about how THEY, the members, surf and look at your site.

Which I can tell you is a lot different then how I surf one by a mile.

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Enough Said.

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Major (Tom)

Alot of this depends on how you phrase the question and in what order its in.
for example, i think epochs first field in the drop down is minor used card, or unsatisfied with content. Which skews the data.
Duke

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