mikeyddddd

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BFT3K

What were/are the jpost error issues all about?

AvsTgp

That answer is INSUFFICIENT, since I actually spoke to a tech and he checked those usernames and subscription numbers and they are signed up for a completely different account, they never even joined my site, the other username wasn't even in your entire database, over the years I asked many times to have this looked at and couldnt get any help or info what so ever, furthermore when I gave usernames that needed to be researched and investigated you told me that info cannot be divulged. By a sheer stroke of luck the tech that answered late at night was able to pin down these usernames and gave me the info that you have repeatedly denied me. I am extremely upset and that this was ignored for so mahy years and still feel like I am losing tons of subscriptions this answer is totally bogus since it doesnt explain how they entered my database to begin with, FURTHERMORE i keep every denial email and there is no record of a denial ever sent for these subscription numbers.

corvette

Let me clarify Pauls post a bit, the reason we post a password first is because if we approved a transaction/took funds before we could be certain the sites content would be delivered, the chargebacks would put us out of business. We will try to send the password multiple times, but can't continue to post to broken systems

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AvsTgp

I dont know how that refers to me ???

NetHorse

CCbill seems like a stand-up processor, but what really stinks about this industry is there is ZERO accountability. You have to basically put all your trust into processors and program owners. No one is going to audit them for fraud, and by law they're not obligated to indulge anything they don't want to.

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2MuchMark

Actually, I'm sure Visa and Mastercard would disagree with you.

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Agent 488

glad to see it all worked out. ccbill rocks.

CCBill Paul

I am not sure I understand. I will contact you off the board and show you where in the CCBill admin reports you can look up users who are added to your database and why.

__________________
Paulk @ CCBill.com | icq 248615940

corvette

i mispoke, i meant username rather than password, sorry about that

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2MuchMark

Good advice.

A few years ago we noticed more "paid" user accounts than we could account for, and it turned out to to be a hacker. Someone was posting fake purchase data to our post-back script that had the same format as CCBill's, but were coming from the wrong location.

What we did was first lock it down so that it would only allow messages from verified CCBill servers. We then took a couple of extra steps to make sure each new purchase and each cancel was correct, and to validate the format of the data received. This solved our problem.

AVSTgp: In my opinion posting on a forum about this kind of thing is a mistake. If you weren't getting good support from a CCBill tech, you should have escalated it to your sales rep, or contacted Corvette by ICQ. Corvette and Paul have always been great at solving any problem or answering any question we had. No need for public "drama".

Good luck!

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webmasterchecks

i have known the CCBill guys for some time and the direction this thread is going is that it seems that avstgp thinks that the guys at ccbill are intentionally billing users for access, inserting a u/ps in the system for them, and not crediting them.

if that was the case, remember it would be very easy to get caught. if a member has any questions about the site, they would email the site owner, who would notice they could not find a subscription and complain on the boards, others would confirm it and ccbill would lose most of their business just like that

so just out of self-preservation, it makes sense to me that this is an honest mistake, i cant see it any other way. their morals aside, why risk losing tens of millions in order to gain a few (highly risky) dollars?

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jcsike

good reminder to keep an eye on your password file and audit it every so often, things have a way of building up in there

shitty thread title, there can be lots of reasons for your problem, but why jump on ccbill all the sudden?

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SwirlsGirl

I am sure they would like to keep this off the board AVSTGP, but I would request that you keep it on the board. Some of us take your issue personally and also want to be reassured that an acceptable explanation has been provided for such a large discrepancy in your login/passwords and credited joins!

BFT3K

What were/are the recent jpost error issues all about?

NetHorse

Really, Visa and Mastercard are going to go audit processors to see if program owners and affiliates are getting all sales accounted for?

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Ditosta

Following ghost on this one.

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jcsike

SwirlsGirl, let me ask you a straight up question

do you think that ccbill would be stupid enough to risk adding members to your site, billing them and keep the money? the same ccbill that was smart enough to be basically the last/biggest processor standing out of 25 processors that started in adult ten years ago

they survided visa/bush administration and a ton of other things, but they are going to be taken out by a gfy thread where they are being accused of stealing from webmasters

honestly

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BV

swirlygirl can't even get her gfy sig button to work, how do you expect her to know wtf is going on?

as far as avstgp, i'm assuming he isn't even running any password trading software. (based on his avoidance of this question)

if he was he would have realised that all those userpass's are on password trading boards

This aint my first rodeo.

Tjeezers

Kind of weird, i often see you post statements that are almost like the one above. Bugs the shit out of me. You also did it in the DirtyD thread. You want to make rules, make a own forum!

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AvsTgp

I am not avoiding anything, I don't see your approach as trying to be helpful, you seem to be attacking me, I appreciate your input, but I dont respond to attacks, I also dont know why there has to be this automatic blind blanket, defense of CCBill, theres obviouslly something fishy going on of that we are all 100% sure, whos fault this is has still not been determined, this could possible be a hacker just as much as an employee of ccbill or even an ex employee of ccbill, if they do get to the bottom of this the chance of them admitting fault is 0% the chance there is a 8 year member discrepancy that changes every month is 100%, ccbill will never admit any wrong for they would have to go back and pay or audit the last eight years. So once we get to the bottom of this and they give me exact info on the 200 members that have been off between paid users and users that have access this will not die, if I have to get a lawyer to audit their files I will! I am sure my lawyer larry walters would love some more info on this. I want an exact accountability for every one of the 200 transactions that are suspicious!
Nobody has contacted me yet and, I will not accept a database error as a sufficient answer. as far as password trading usernames, these usernames are 6 DAYS OLD! i very much highly doubt they have been added and traded with in the last 6 days and, even if they are why is there no record of those transactions at all, the transaction numbers are there but there is no record on my side and in some cases ccbills side, so with all due resepect BV stay the hell out of this!

jcsike

dude, hes not attacking you. when you work in technology for years, you realize that shit/problems/mistakes happen all the time, major or minor

all you can do is antisipate them and try to prevent them, we audit our password files every 6 months matter of fact because years ago we saw 600 extra members and it freaked us out

its not always a conspiracy theory where ccbill is trying to steal your money, have you considered its an honest mistake?

the big question is, have you found out those members are being billed? or are they just added to the pw file? have any logged in at any point or are they just adds

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CCBill Paul

I have sent you an email with screen shots of where these 6 users exist in our system under your account. As I explained in my previous post two were telephone transactions that were not completed and the other four were declines. These were done under your account and are viewable in the CCBill admin reports. I am not sure why you did not receive the emails on the declines but they do exist in the reports that you have access to.

I apologize that the techs you spoke with did not investigate the issue as they should have, however if you would like to send me any or all of the 200 transactions that you are suspicious of I would be happy to look into them for you.

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Paulk @ CCBill.com | icq 248615940

Tanker

First thing you need to do is drop the password file!

Get on a Database system instead. This will also end your corrupt password files from happening and save you downtime.

Need help with this hit me up we can consult you on this and many of other changes that will secure your system and increase profits!

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BV

stay out of it? hahaha
attacking you? hahaha
dude, you came here and attacked ccbill
they try to help and ask for information, and you get cocky with them
you don't think passwords can be added in past 6 days?

GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND TAKE MY ADVICE!!!!

CCBILL IS NOT FUCKING YOU!

and lock down your CGI, get proxypass installed ASAP, and scan your drive

12clicks

those of us who run businesses understand the common sense in not running to the boards and "suspecting" fraud from the people you do business with.
I'm sure its fun for you to watch this play out but the only thing I see this has done is expose the thread starter.

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SwirlsGirl

Well Jcsike, its like this... you ask me if I think ccbill is stupid enough to skim sales, I don't suggest that that makes them stupid.

Since I have been in this business...

I have caught yahoo red handed engaged in click fraud,

I have caught my own bank red handed engaged in overdraft fraud,

I have caught auto repair shops engaged in pure fraud,(actually hubby caught them)

I have been a victim of mortgage fraud twice in the past 6 years,

Not to mention the fraud that we are all exposed to on the nightly news,but thats another topic for another day...

I could go on about many other processing companies that have been caught in some fraud, just look at the verotel fiasco last year..

Look at the paymonde fiasco before that,

look at the ibill fiasco before that,

I have been personally effected by all of them, and when I see another webmaster in distress I can relate and feel compelled to give the webmaster the benefit of the doubt.

I am under no illusions about how the word really works, I had a processing account terminated years ago early in the game because I came to the boards and outed the processor for promising to pay for over 2 months and never paying.

within 3 hours of making the post, my access to my stats was locked out, and my account was terminated! So there are risks involved when you courageously call out a company on the boards.

Having said all of that, I go back to my other question that no one has tried to answer and that is not would ccbill skim joins, but is it in fact possible?

You should be able to ask that question without being slanderous. Asking that question to me is a critical valid question. I don't think by asking if its possible to be skimmed means you are accusing them of scamming.

jcsike

its not possible to effectively skim joins without a big chance of getting caught.

the procesor is in-between the consumer and the webmaster. they would have to bill the consumer, give them access to the webmasters members section, not pay the $$$ to the webmaster AND try to prevent the consumer from comunicating to the webmaster about anything (to avoid raising the webmasters suspicouns), no to mention hope the webmaster doesnt check his password file, which 70%+ of webmasters know to do

and if they dont do it right and a webmaster posts on the boards, everyone knows about the plan and their business is kaput

so in my eyes its a stupid question. if they were doing this i would pull my processing from them not because they are dishonest, but because they are stupid LOL

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SwirlsGirl

Those of us in business also understand when you get an answer that does not seem rational or square with you gut instincts then it is prudent to bring it to the boards.

Chances are some one else might be experiencing the same thing.

I guess if they don't like you bringing it to the board they would rather you poll your fellow webmasters by way of telekinesis...

Platinumpimp

Word

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Agent 488

where there is smoke there is fire.

AvsTgp

I am sending ccbill the member list and they will review it so far the info they gave me does not match the subscription numbers I will keep you posted, meanwhile if 200 members had access to my site on any given month without paying then yes that fraud, whether its done purposely or maliciously is yet to be seen so all of the people ready to close the issue because ccbill finally responded after this should have been dealt with years ago GFY
I have never seen such a bunch of kiss asses, and thank god i went to the boards because I finally got some attention to the matter, and at least maybe some other webmasters can tighten up now!

jcsike

so you didnt check to see if any of those users had logged in at all before you started this thread? that would be very relavant here if they were up to something

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SwirlsGirl

For such a silly question Jcsike you sure gave a complex answer! So according to you it is impossible to scam, because they could never get away with it?

I have heard arguments like that before... the logic to me is flawed when you say"the official story must be true.... if it were an inside job we would all know about it"

where have I heard that before

BFT3K

What were/are the recent jpost error issues all about?

CCBill Paul

I am not sure I understand the question, can you be more specific or hit me up?

__________________
Paulk @ CCBill.com | icq 248615940

BFT3K

Okay Paul, I just sent you a direct email.

Thanks!

borked

This IMVHO is very dumb....

let's say I'm using htpasswd for storage - so you send an ADD command, I check what? I can't check anything except username uniqueness. And so I reply "NOT UNIQUE".

if so, then why "ADD"? Why not "CHECK"?

You're saying it's purely to check that the script works.... so why not send a "HELLO" command and await a response....

sending an "ADD" with the password to not actually add a password is, well fucking dumb.

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Lloyd_CCBill

Hi AvsTgp and all,

I don't normally post to the webmaster forums as Paul and Corvette have always been valuable resources to the community, but I thought it prudent that I do so now to help clarify some recent concerns. I am the director at CCBill that oversees all Client Support functions for CCBill clients and partners.

I am always happy to see support threads posted to GFY and other community forums. CCBill is, and always will be, focused on providing quality support to our community of clients and partners. The community forums have always proven to be an excellent medium of support communication to ensure that all of our clients and their partners are receiving quality support.

I just spoke with Paul and he is currently reviewing the list of usernames that were sent to him regarding the username and password discrepancies. While Paul is working on that I wanted to offer the following for the sake of clarity regarding CCBill's user management services.

When CCBill attempts to add a username and password to a client's authentication system we first send the username along with a random password to ensure that the username is available. The process of sending a username along with a bogus password to check username availability is a process we call 'Subscription Reservation'. The reservation function ensures that we are adding a valid username and password to the program that the customer has chosen. Upon receiving a successful response from the program's authentication system we move forward with processing the transaction.

Subscription reservations can be cancelled and terminated for many reasons but the most common is transaction decline. When a subscription reservation is cancelled CCBill attempts to remove the username and bogus password that was added to secure username validity. Unfortunately, when the command to remove the username fails, the username and bogus password can remain in the program's authentication system for an undetermined amount of time until a successful response is received during later attempts to remove the reserved username.

We have consulted with our product maintenance team regarding the specific issue that was brought to our attention via this thread. What we found were 2 telephone billing reservations, which were not confirmed by the customer, and 4 declines. We have also identified that there have been negative responses from the user management script in question that prevented our system from successfully removing the declined reservations.

There is also some concern regarding the recent Jpost error emails that were delivered to some of our clients recently. That issue has been resolved for some time now but I will be happy to offer additional information. We were experiencing some isolated lag on our satellite servers when sending out user management instructions. Because of this lag some customers were not able to log into the programs that they had recently purchased access to. The lag caused an approximate 5 to 10 minute delay between the transaction being finished and user credentials being updated. When this happened we had an enormous influx of customer communications and we quickly identified and resolved the problem. Although the problem was addressed quickly, our Customer Support department was following protocol by contacting each program owner individually to identify a possible problem with user management following a customer complaint. CCBill takes many proactive measures to inform our clients and partners of problems that could potentially affect sales and this was one of them.

While Paul is busy working on attending to individual concerns I want to further extend my gratitude for bringing this particular problem to our attention via this thread. My goal, and CCBill's goal, is focused on offering the best support that our industry has to offer. If there are ever any questions regarding CCBill functionality and support please do not hesitate to bring those questions and concerns to our attention via the medium that you feel most comfortable using. The CCBill Client Support department currently has 20+ resources monitoring various community forums around the clock for support related issues and we always welcome each of our clients and their partners to address their needs via a medium they are most comfortable using.

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CCBill, LLC
[email protected]
O: (480) 449.7751 ext. 251
C: (623) 703.8486
ICQ: 226130819

SwirlsGirl

Its only 3 ccbill threads going on right now discussing a variety of concerns that many webmasters are experiencing, from payouts being short, to join form submission

percentages dropping to nothing, on the same exact days for multiple webmasters, and discrepancies in passwords being added and joins not being credited.....

I guess thats just too many webmasters with nothing better to do but display their total addiction to drama.

I don't know which is worse, feeling like ccbill is not being forthright about what may be going on, or the foolish webmasters who will attack you for sharing your concerns with other concerned webmasters...

It happens on every topic, on every question, someone who is webmaster will come in and attack another webmaster for pointing out red flags.

crabs in a barrel

2MuchMark

Tjeezers, my post was not intended to bother you - my apologies if it did. It just seems to me that an issue like this would be solved much more quickly by contacting a higher-up at CCBill instead of posting about it here. CCBill is a solid company filled with rock solid people in my opinion and they have gone out of their way to help us with everything we have ever asked for. Associating the words "CCBILL" and "Fraud" are the title of this thread does is laughable, and extremely unfair to CCBill and the people who work there.

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stever

holy shit!
a password file?

is this a thread from 1992?

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Tanker

Like I said above the first thing I would do is leave the password file and go to a DB

Contact me if you need help getting this setup! It will eliminate a lot of issues with passwords

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TheDA

You say 'fraud' and you say 'whether its done purposely or maliciously is yet to be seen'.

For it to be fraud, it has to be intentional.

Shoplifter

Hey Corvette this begs a question: If the CGI on some website seems to be unreachable and it cannot do the initial add will the system decline the transaction?

borked

I retract this post - I thought the ADD was with live passwords, but Lloyd clarifies it is a bogus password to "reserve" that username, which makes sense.

I can see where the confusion can come in though with "ADD/UPDATE", especially when there is an internal script handling the reporting....

non-drama thread it looks like, but I learnt about CCBILL postbacks which is something I've never had to do, thanks to NATS

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CCBill Paul

If it is unreachable the signup will still process and we will try to add the user again later.

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Trixie

THAT RIGHT THERE IS EXACTLY THE PROBLEM. None of this stuff would escalate to this level if people's concerns weren't being blown off by your techs or they weren't sitting there asking busy clients to write up a report describing problems they should look up themselves.

It really sucks that confidence in ccbill (and as a result, ccbill sponsors) is being eroded over dumb stuff -- poor communication and lazy techs/service -- that has nothing to do with the reliability of your processing.

Sorry to post this again, but after a month this is still not fixed and I would never be so mad about it if it weren't for the careless non-responses:

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...3&postcount=16

I appreciate that there's been some follow-up now and apologies, but the problem is now actually worse than it's been all month (this will be the FOURTH messed-up check in a row unless it's magically fixed today/this weekend) and sales from an entire site/subaccount = hundreds of dollars are missing from my check calculations for Monday IN ADDITION TO none of the affiliate payouts being deducted.

I wouldn't for one second think that CCBill is defrauding clients, but if you don't get a handle on your small problem of service (plus totally confusing WMS emails & communication, etc.) there are going to be more and more threads like these of frustrated clients and affiliates assuming the worst when a good tech would have them sorted out long before it ever got to that level.

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borked

bump for trixie

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Zester

how will this affect ccbill affiliates ?

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