TheDoc

Hahaha, man you come up with some weak shit....but hey, you got your spewage in like always. Let's bump this to the top... let the world know you're dumb ass is on the prowl.

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slavdogg

I've lived in Soviet Union as well and I have a poli sci degree and yes i know what i'mj talking about

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The Demon

I can't let the world know that, I'm too busy letting the world know that you're the dumbest person on gfy.

*Spew spew spew spew*
ROFL way too easy.

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TheDoc

HAHAHAHAHA.... shut the hell up, you never lived in the Soviet Union. So you're a doctor, a a lawyer, going to school to be a lawyer, have a degree in some crap economics, and now you lived in the Soviet Union as well?

And yet post on GFY political threads? Dude, please keep your pile of lies in check.

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kane

Here is some info from Newsweek.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/233890

In the article it says, " a new NEWSWEEK Poll shows that while a majority of Americans say they oppose Obama's plan, a majority actually support the key features of the legislation."

Further down it says: " The NEWSWEEK Poll asked respondents about eight health-care-reform provisions that Obama and many Democrats in Congress have generally supported. It found that the majority of Americans supported five of those provisions, three by particularly large margins. Eighty-one percent agreed with the creation of a new insurance marketplace, the exchange, for individual subscribers to compare plans and buy insurance at a competitive rate. Seventy-six percent thought health insurers should be required to cover anyone who applies, including those with preexisting conditions; and 75 percent agreed with requiring most businesses to offer health insurance to their employees, with incentives for small-business owners to do so."

People don't like the overall bill, but there is stuff in there that people do lie. I think this also shows two things that I find interesting. 1. It really shows that nobody really knows what is in the bill and what isn't and 2. the republicans have done a masterful job of demonizing it. People hear about it and instantly think there is nothing of value in it when that is just not the case. I don't support it as a whole, but there are some good things in it.

The Demon

When????

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TheDoc

Wow... brilliant sewage from your mouth as always.

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The Demon

I agree that there are some good things in there, and if the Dems opted to make a smaller bill with the things people DO like, instead of trying to shove the bigger bill up our asses, they would have saved face. It's the dumbest political move I've ever seen.

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The Demon

Move along, son.

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TheDoc

Hey bitch boy... you're on my Industries forum... how about you take a hike and get a life?

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The Demon

I'm better than you at every aspect of life, therefore I will stay and watch you get ridiculed by your own industry

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TheDoc

Dude, you only post in political threads.... hahaha... again, you're a nobody, a shit stain, that has nothing and posts in political threads on gfy - and you think it's cool.

Haha, any other spew you want to say?

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The Demon

:thum bsup

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TheDoc

Oh the big ol trololol posting his spew - makes it trueee, oh yes it doooo... * sing it people *

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The Demon

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TheDoc

Oh, lame... so basically you have nothing other than your repeating spew.

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kane

Brown won in a liberal state in an odd election in a state that already has universal healthcare and he ran on a promise to end the obamacare. It was an odd election at best. But what about that house seat in NY that has been held by republicans since the civil war being won by a democrat? That isn't a good sign for the republicans and it is something they don't want to see.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126503/De...eferences.aspx This poll from March 9th shows that democrats still have a slight lead over republicans in generic polls.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...l/original.pdf This poll (it is the NY Times/CBS so you have to take with a grain of salt) says that 57% of those surveyed see the republicans in an unfavorable light. In that same poll most of the people asked blame Bush for the problems we are having and congress a close second. So the republicans will have to convince these people that they are different than they were just a few years ago.

There are many other polls out there that show the republican approval rating hovering at somewhere in the low to mid 40's. I'm not saying the democrats are doing significantly better, but the republicans are not the golden child they suddenly want to make themselves out to be.

theking

I am busy and do not have the inclination to take the time to research the matter for you...and in addition I see that Kane has presented one poll (their are others). In addition polls show the primary concern people have about the current bills are not really the content of the bills but the cost to the taxpayers they may generate. According to the CBO it will not cost the taxpayer but in fact will save the taxpayer money in the long run.

I saw a former head of the CBO interviewed and he stated that the CBO can only score what they are presented with at the time and for various reasons they never have all of the information before them that they should have and in addition he said that CBO scoring can be off as much as 50% one way or the other.

I have lived long enough to know that estimated costs of any government program usually end up being several times higher than predicted.

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kane

Like I said, that might not be the exact number, but is close. Most of the issues they agree on, but the ones they disagree on they are light years apart on.




Sure, they saw the chance to do something big and good and instead of coming together as a group and settling for good, everyone wanted a piece of the pie and they tried to do something grand and it bit them in the ass.


I think they are doing what the democrats did when the republicans held both houses and the white house for the first six years of the Bush administration. They are playing the party that is against it. Whatever the democrats want, the republicans are against it and they threaten to filibuster everything. The difference is the democrats took the bait and fought to get 60 votes on everything instead of forcing the republicans to follow through on their threats.

The republicans are being cocky. Did you see the videos from CPAC? They basically stood on stage and taught classes on how anyone who doesn't agree with them are idiots. Maybe it will work, but I think they feel they are doing better than they really are.

The Demon

They're not the golden child yet.. But if the Dems keep going the way they have been, it's over for them in November. And again, I don't place too much faith in polls, otherwise Obama is the most hated president in history after only 1 year, and the Congressional Democrats just suck.

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The Demon

Yes, according to the CBO. According to mainstream economists, we're in a recovery right now rofl.

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The Demon

And this is a fundamental mistake the Democrats are going to pay for. I would prefer the Republicans take the house and the senate, and then work with Obama. One party owning everything doesn't ever turn out good.

If that's the case, somebody better put them back in line. The November elections are on them 100%, in my mind. They can either make or break those elections.

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theking

I saw one report that stated that the people of Massachusets want "Obama care" to fail because they think their health care program is better than the House or Senate bills and that being the reason they voted in the Republican that ran saying he would vote against "Obama care" and remove the Senate's super majority.

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kane

100% agree. The democrats were handed a golden platter and they shit in it. They had Obama who changed the tide and had the country and the world at his back. They had just come off a bad republican administration and were given a golden opportunity. If they just pass a smaller bill that focuses on things we all agree on they would have got it through the system easily and they could have done some actual good. Then they could give it a few years to work and see how it is doing. If they then felt it needed more they could go back and try to fix it and add to it as needed.

They had the change to build a really nice house. Instead they decided that they wanted to build a skyscraper and it seems they ran out of materials halfway through the build.

The Demon

Also, you forget about the economic crisis. What Obama and Bernanke are doing makes Bush seem like an angel. The astronomical deficit spending that's destroying our economy is perhaps the main or the 2nd reason the Dems are screwed come November. They've mishandled virtually everything they were responsible for.


Edit: Apparently there's a vote tally for the health care bill. Thus far it's 217-214 for No.

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kane

I tend to thing that overall polls are pretty accurate. Obama has a low job approval rating, but people still seem to like him. It is a odd. Congress as a whole has a terrible rating. I read that the overall approval rating of congress is around 17% and people seem to hate the democrats and republicans alike.

I think we will really find out what people feel about this health care bill in November. I think it will pass which will make it the single biggest issue in the November election. The republicans will run on the platform of, "elect me and I will shut it down." and the democrats will run on the platform of, "We did something great here and we can do more if you just elect us."

I think it is the perfect time for an independent to step in and run on the platform of, "Both of these guys are idiots, elect me and I will do the work of the real people."

The Demon

Obama's #s are 46-47%, while the majority of Americans dislike him. Then again, the poll is not a representative of the whole country, so I wouldn't use it in a debate.

The problem with the latter statement is that the Democrats' logic is flawed and just plain delusional. Since the majority of this country do not want Obamacare as it is, the only ones that feel that the Democrats did something great are the Democrats. If they go into the elections pitching that shit, you can expect a landslide.

RON PAUL

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kane

I think how the economy plays out will have an effect on the election. However, I think the debt and deficit are not big deals to a lot of people. I have been hearing about how the national debt and deficit will destroy this country since I was a little kid. Most of us grew up with that and it has become white noise that only seems to come up at election time. If the economy is growing and we are growing jobs instead of losing them when the election comes around the democrats will use the Obama stimulus as a positive thing and tell people it is working and they need to re-elect them so they can continue to fix things and not leave it half undone. When you start talking long term economics to people most people's eyes gloss over. In the end it will be which part can convince people that their jobs is safe or that they will be getting a job soon that will with that fight.

weekly

Freedom is a right. If you are sick or disabled, you lose your freedom. The state then should do its best to return your freedom. I guess then, that health care is a right.

TheDoc

Freedom is a nice way to look at it....

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theking

There became a saying at some point "Its the economy stupid" and that is in fact the bottom line.

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The Demon

Explain to me how the economy is growing? Our budget deficit is a record every month. Or trade deficit is ridiculous. We have not created a single job since 2002. And no, stimulus jobs aren't jobs. Temporary jobs aren't jobs. People are slowly starting to come around(thank god) and realize that the economy truly is in shambles, and that the Obama Administration and Bernanke have spent a shitload of time trying to convince the public of a lie. The stimulus was a complete failure, as any stimulus program is when you're running huge deficits. The only positive thing you can say is that with its last dying breath, Obama and Bernanke have thrown everything into the stock market. The spins they put on every single day are hilarious and it just shows how delusional people are. They know they truth but they want to believe we're ok. That's fine, but everything points to collapse. It's not a question of if but when, and what Bernanke and the keynesian morons have done is postpone the collapse now to make it exponentially worse later.

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weekly

So, eight years of fiscal irresponsibility has nothing to do with the current economic shambles. You know that information totem pole I mentioned? You really need to start climbing it. You can't let Karl Rove do all your thinking for you.

NetHorse

YOU'RE...What are you twelve? You don't know the difference between your and you're? Paypal me $20 and I will give you a few pointers on the English language.

BTW, it's potheads, and yes you sound like one when you try to debate people on here.

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theking

To the best of my knowledge the economy has not ever reached zero growth and is slowly growing each quarter. History shows that job recovery is slow to follow economic recovery.

I personally think that 50% or more of those that have lost their jobs during the recession will not get their jobs back and I personally think that the US will never reach the economic peak of past.

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kane

Gallop has him at a 48% job approval rating as of today. But any poll has margins of error and they can change daily. According to this http://americaswatchtower.com/2010/0...0-mid-term-me/ his personal likability rating is still around 60%.



That is actually not the case though. When you look at this poll http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/...alth-care.html 89% of liberals and around 55% of moderates like the health care bill as it is. Of course this could change if it passes and we see it in action, but for now the left and many moderates like it. That is enough to win election. In the current political climate the country is divided enough that all you need to do to win is get your base to vote for you and convince enough moderates to vote for you. If this poll is even close to accurate the democrats will not be hurt by health care. The republicans were never going to vote democrat so all they have to do is hold onto their own party and win over the moderates



There will be no independent that can win the presidential election in 2012 unless that persona has a ton of money they are willing to spend. However, on the local level, especially in the house, there could be independents that could win.

weekly

Kinda like porn

The Demon

Apparently nobody's doing your thinking for you, not even CNN/MSNBC. Nobody said anything about the last 8 years but I suspect thats what the Liberals look to when they see Obama destroying the economy.

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The Demon

It has reached zero growth. It's called deflation. And this isn't a recovery, nor a jobless one at that, it's a double dip depression. I wish the economy would hurry up and collapse so we can get through the bullshit and create a new model. Or perhaps, incorporate the Austrian School as the new "mainstream" economics.

Our peak was the 50s. Then decades of monetary and fiscal mismanagement, coupled with the credit/subprime mortgage crisis, doomed us. Now Obama and Bernanke have brought the concept of "end game" to a whole new level. And you're right, those jobs won't come back.

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weekly

Naive. Let me 'splain something to you genius. Obama isn't even half way through. You do all the good shit in the last half of your term to get re elected. The teabaggers and apoplectic rednecks like yourself are blowing your loads way too soon. You really need to Google the rumble in the jungle for a lesson in strategy. It kinda makes me laugh watching you guys go nuts way too early. Dude, you are being way outfoxed.

The Demon

Haha and the excuses pile out. Not even excuses, just 100% bullshit. Facts would disagree with you weekly, now it's time you let someone smarter than you (mostly everybody) do your thinking for you. Your excuses are priceless though. Go learn the difference between socialism and classical liberalism lolol

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weekly

Buddy, I never take anyone who starts a post with HAHA seriously. Actually I never took you seriously before the haha. You're a kid.

theking

It has been a recession...not a depression...and I have never saw a report that stated in any quarter that we have suffered zero growth...but maybe I missed it.

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The Demon

That's good, because seeing as how I'm the only one responding to your asinine posts, I don't think anyone takes you seriously.

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kane

I never said the economy was growing. I said IF the economy is growing. But I will go one step further and say this. It doesn't matter if the economy is growing or not. Here is what people do at election time: They look around and take inventory of their lives. If they have a decent house, a decent job and a decent car and they are living a pretty happy life, they are not in an all fired up hurry for change. All the democrats have to show is that were are starting to add jobs to the economy and that the outlook is looking up and they will convince many people to vote for them.

Most people can't pick Bernanke out of a lineup. Most people have no idea who Keynes or Keynesian economics are. Most people don't really care about the deficit or the debt. What they care about is will they have a job, will they keep their job and will their lives continue to get better. Elections have nothing to do with what will happen or what has happened, they have everything to do with what you can convince people will happen.

The republicans are a great example of this. Every time they are not in power they then run on the ticket of cutting taxes, shrinking government, spending money wisely and reducing debt. While they do sometimes cut taxes, most of those tax cuts are for the rich so the average person doesn't really get much of it. They never reduce the budget or reign in spending and they grow the government. This is the reality of the situation, yet time and again they run on the same promises, promises they have never delivered on, and still continue to win. this is because they convince people that they really mean it this time.

The same can go for the democrats in this election. If there are signs that things are improving they can convince people they are doing the right thing and that the republicans will only take us back down an ugly road and it will work on many people.

weekly

and I don't care. But it seems you do.

The Demon

Certain statistics are manipulated by whatever administration is in power. For instance, I believe in 2008, they no longer reported M3(money supply). Now yes, technically speaking(as in GDP growth), we're not in a depression. But when you factor in everything I've already stated, plus the fact that the growth comes from stimulus plans and companies restocking inventory, you get a depression.

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The Demon

Sure thing, I enjoy laughing at stupid people.

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weekly

and the colored girls go do be do be do be doo be doo.

baddog