A Major Reason Our Industry is Suffering - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

stever · 05-12-2010, 02:27 PM

so traffic is up
but sales are down

so i guess people are not busy surfing other types of sites (non porn)

in reality they are busy getting free porn instead of paying for it and who knows
maybe all these other types of sites would have even more traffic if these people were not so busy with free porn?

ever think of it that way?

i think people are watching porn now more than ever before

will76 · 05-12-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn

There's not a single user I know of that LIKES TGPs... maybe to look at a page but the endless skimming/new windows gets fucking OLD. Nobody likes that crap it's just a way to push junk traffic along and artificially bounce traffic back and forth between sites and/or traffic resellers... They're a joke, seriously... Good for pushing link juice if you know what you're doing but as far as for users... sure some of the traffic will convert but they're just feeder sites. The user experience is garbage.

TGPs started tanking because people got tired of the crap. Additional avenues to look at hot naked chicks opened up and surfers tried to avoid the TGPs. Tubes happened along just as TGPs were taking a dive and I'm sure accelerated this rate; not only is it MOVING pictures but there's also less skimming, more of staying on the same site, and a better user experience.

sorry but that is not logical. People didn't one day say hey tgp sites suck, I am tired of it. I am not going to look at porn till something better comes along. time goes by.... Oh thank good, here is a tube site I can look at porn again.

people will always go for the best free deal. Person x goes to the hun once a day to jerk off. He comes across a tube site, he sees that the tube site has more to offer, he stops going to the hun. It really is that simple.

SZNY · 05-12-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

Absolutely. The owner of that site is really smart. He's been successful for many years and continues to operate quietly and effectively.

Yeah is for sure very smart. Many years only promoting other cam sites and then starting one on his own.

If you look and compare MFC with other cam sites he is the only one that is booming and it's because he has a totally different approach compared with other cam sites.

There is almost no innovation and most programs are still floating on a business model that once made them success. Obviously it still makes money but it will never increase again unless you change your settings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Due

I think the industry took a bad turn when the industry stopped evolving.

I haven't seen any fresh a cool ideas in porn for years. The adult business used to lead the way, now it copies the mainstream.

People will pay for an experience, the market of paying 39.95 / month for access to 2500 videos getting 3 updates / day is dying, that's why cross sales became so popular.

I totally agree with you. Like Roald and others already mentioned a few times, the consumers have so many ways to spend their times plus there is so much free porn available.

I started in 2004 as one of the 1st offering live chats using Flash technology. As a Macromedia Alliance partner we wanted to make something new and unique. We did it back then and were pretty successful but faced a few big problems.

The 1st version of Flash Comm Server didn't supported load balancing features so we had to code ourselves one. Then actionscript 2 came out so we had to rewrite everything from scratch which ofcourse caused a lot of downtime > revenue looses.

Most stupid was that we wanted to offer the full user experience (full Flash) what ofcourse is dumb because of no SEO rankings.

Now the last 1.5 years I tried to develop during this fucking recession a new video chat engine engine with a new in-house group of very skilled developers. After a delay of 4-5 months it's finally up and running but it's not easy especially when you try to be innovating in times of recession.

Now I'm in the position initiate with someone a joint venture. This is for me the only way to focus on my core business and reach my targets and goals.

dyna mo · 05-12-2010, 02:29 PM

BestXXXPorn · 05-12-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

sorry but that is not logical. People didn't one day say hey tgp sites suck, I am tired of it. I am not going to look at porn till something better comes along. time goes by.... Oh thank good, here is a tube site I can look at porn again.

people will always go for the best free deal. Person x goes to the hun once a day to jerk off. He comes across a tube site, he sees that the tube site has more to offer, he stops going to the hun. It really is that simple.

I think we may actually be in agreement but expressing it differently... What I'm saying is that there were other options becoming available before tubes that made TGPs less attractive to surfers (if that is at all possible, lol)... But I do agree that Tubes accelerated the rate of TGP defection drastically.

Nysus · 05-12-2010, 02:40 PM

I would say you're right. It's not the industry suffering, but the people in the industry suffering because they can't adapt because they, as you said, don't know why they were making money. Good 2 cents.

RP Fade · 05-12-2010, 02:42 PM

I agree with you Shap but I also think that instead of being unified, we're fragmented. Instead of debilitating, we enable. Instead of innovating, they copy. Instead of creating, they steal.

And so on..

will76 · 05-12-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Thank you - and to your continued success!

Just looked at my stats for Feb-April (3 months).

Traffic is up 32%
Sales network-wide are remarkably stable, within 5 + or - sales weekly (odd)
Some sites UP in sales, some sites DOWN in sales
Monthly Rebills: down 22%
(Rebill pattern getting worse, too: ppl join, rebill once maybe twice instead of four or five times, cancel, rejoin, repeat; noticing more and more familiar names on the sign-ups)
3 Month Rebills (biggest discount) UP 19%

So this is good AND bad. LOL So the tide MUST turn, in either direction, relatively soon because this kind of balancing act can't last forever.

Summer's coming, 50+ new affiliates in the past month alone, so a change is a-gonna come. Wonder if it will be good or bad?

Its fun to look at stats from day to day or month to month. But you really need long periods of time to get a good feel and you need large volumes of traffic to get good averages.

My sales can go up 100% one month from the next but its from MY work, not other conditions. The biggest factor that affects your sales is you.

Don't worry about the "summer slow down" unless you slow down. ie, there is no such thing as a summer slow down. People make less during the summer typically because that is when THEY work less. (see my first comment about you being the biggest factor controlling your sales). Programs might see dips during the summer but that is because their affiliates are working less. It is NOT because people stop jerking off during the summer

Nysus · 05-12-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Are you implying people are using the internet more now to be social instead of masturbating as much?

Shap · 05-12-2010, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

I can tell you there was a good bit of people that I remember talking to back in 2003/04 that was telling me " damn, i should have saved some of my money while it lasted" etc. There were a lot of people who made it, blew it, and then it was gone and they were out.

I guess today's big guys, were at least smart enough to not blow it all and reinvested into their own membership sites and other revenue generating ventures that have been dropping like a rock the last couple years. There is two ways you make money in this industry and in any really: you cheat or your bust your ass. Either way you have to be good at what you do, it is just a lot easier to make a lot of money if you are a good cheater vs being a good business person.
The "cheater" bangs credit cards, and installs spyware on people's pcs to make 100's of signups. The good business man has to be better than his competition, be innovative, and has to bust his ass working hard.

The good business men, who have continued to work hard, innovative, and beat the competition are doing fine today. They may be making less than they did in the past but they are still moving right along.

The good business men, who made "ok" money in the past because they took the weekends off, didn't always have the best ideas, etc... they are hurting now and in trouble.

I think the big guys you referring to who are the people who resorted to cheating when the dumb easy money was gone. They continue to try to find the easy way to make money. For example, instead of offering a great product and developing your own traffic, they just make a couple deals and buy cross sales. If cross sales go away then they fucked until they try to find another easy way to make money. Those people will run out of luck sooner or later, if that isn't happening already. I hope the ones who are actually doing illegal shit end up in jail. I could have made 10x more money if I went the shitty route, but I rather be able to sleep at night and know my ass wont be in jail.

I agree 100%

Amputate Your Head · 05-12-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RP Fade

I agree with you Shap but I also think that instead of being unified, we're fragmented. Instead of debilitating, we enable. Instead of innovating, they copy. Instead of creating, they steal.

And so on..

How is this different from the competitive environment in any other industry? Sure, every once in a while we all pull some amazing shit out thin air, but the reality is that's the way the whole planet works. Everyone copies everyone. Competing militarys do it every day. No one is exempt. Even theoretical physicists copy & steal pieces of other's theories and incorporate bits into their own.

It just is.

will76 · 05-12-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adult Rental Chris

I'll agree with that to an extent, but you may have overlooked the impact social networking can/has done.

Think about word of mouth between friends, posting "Check this out" with links on their walls to tube sites, in private messages, IM's, etc. It has grown a very large community of savvy free porn surfers. Its taught purchasers of porn sites how to now get it for free, etc.

In addition to that, we have to constantly think about today's 'new credit' people. This years 18-year-olds, getting their first credit cards. Much more internet/computer savvy than 10-years ago. What does it take to get these 'new credit' students to plunk down their CC digits. What are they experiencing in 'Today's Web' that wasn't there 10-years ago, etc

I agree with you too there.

But the others were saying that people stopped buying porn because they spent a lot of time on social networking sites. They stopped buying porn because they can get it for free.

Shap · 05-12-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RP Fade

I agree with you Shap but I also think that instead of being unified, we're fragmented. Instead of debilitating, we enable. Instead of innovating, they copy. Instead of creating, they steal.

And so on..

Sadly you are right

Shap · 05-12-2010, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nysus

I would say you're right. It's not the industry suffering, but the people in the industry suffering because they can't adapt because they, as you said, don't know why they were making money. Good 2 cents.

dyna mo · 05-12-2010, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nysus

Are you implying people are using the internet more now to be social instead of masturbating as much?

no, i don't believe people are masturbating less.

just putting that up as food for thought, i am not in a position to analyze that chart adequately. it does seem to suggest a correlation b/w a slight decline in 2 well run operations, one free & one pay and a couple of social networks.

and it also suggests that those operations have not really been hit HARD in any real way by tubes, social networks, etc.

will76 · 05-12-2010, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SZNY

Yeah is for sure very smart. Many years only promoting other cam sites and then starting one on his own.

If you look and compare MFC with other cam sites he is the only one that is booming and it's because he has a totally different approach compared with other cam sites.

There is almost no innovation and most programs are still floating on a business model that once made them success. Obviously it still makes money but it will never increase again unless you change your settings.

the main reason MFC is booming is because finally a cam site figured how to tap a larger part of the market. It is very simple, yet good idea what he did. Very easy to explain as well. All other cam sites -> pay $1.99 - $3.99 a minute. How many people can afford to spend 10 - 20 minutes a day or a week at those rates, maybe 10% of the people online? His method allows EVERYONE, people who can only afford $5 a week to spend money. Simple, he is doing good because he is tapping into a market share that a lot of other cam sites neglected.

Maybe one day I will bite the bullet and do my own site, especially since a lot of the current cam sites owners think they have it figured out and they totally missing the boat. It's all about revenue features, monetizing all of your traffic and excluding no one. Not just how many cam credits can you sell in a day.

RP Fade · 05-12-2010, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

How is this different from the competitive environment in any other industry? Sure, every once in a while we all pull some amazing shit out thin air, but the reality is that's the way the whole planet works. Everyone copies everyone. Competing militarys do it every day. No one is exempt. Even theoretical physicists copy & steal pieces of other's theories and incorporate bits into their own.

It just is.

Yes and no. If one person is jumping off the bridge, does not mean everyone else has to and that it's a good idea. Copying good ideas is one thing, but copying things that are destructive and damaging is another.

For example, the record industry saw a common enemy and banded to together for the greater good of the industry. We see an enemy and try to figure out how we can milk it and make money at it. One shady program starts doing $100 pps payouts by either ripping off the surfer or the webmaster, other programs copy them just to compete, no matter how much of terrible idea and how damaging it is in the longrun.

RP Fade · 05-12-2010, 02:59 PM

ps: long time no talk Shap, send our love to Beth, Grant and everyone else

will76 · 05-12-2010, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RP Fade

Yes and no. If one person is jumping off the bridge, does not mean everyone else has to and that it's a good idea. Copying good ideas is one thing, but copying things that are destructive and damaging is another.

For example, the record industry saw a common enemy and banded to together for the greater good of the industry. We see an enemy and try to figure out how we can milk it and make money at it. One shady program starts doing $100 pps payouts by either ripping off the surfer or the webmaster, other programs copy them just to compete, no matter how much of terrible idea and how damaging it is in the longrun.

Unfortunately we see an enemy and we start working with them. Take tube sites with stolen content for example. They working (worked) out deals with some companies that they wont steal their content but instead put a banner up if they give them the content to use. These companies will profit from working with that tube site because of shear volume. The ratio might be great but who cares if they get 50 sales a day more from that site. It kills the rest of the industry and everyone else who is not partnered with them but what do they care, they making sales at everyone else's expense.

AcidMax · 05-12-2010, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RP Fade

Yes and no. If one person is jumping off the bridge, does not mean everyone else has to and that it's a good idea. Copying good ideas is one thing, but copying things that are destructive and damaging is another.

For example, the record industry saw a common enemy and banded to together for the greater good of the industry. We see an enemy and try to figure out how we can milk it and make money at it. One shady program starts doing $100 pps payouts by either ripping off the surfer or the webmaster, other programs copy them just to compete, no matter how much of terrible idea and how damaging it is in the longrun.

To expand on that:
I wonder how many people who are complaining about dipped sales, did hidden x-sales back in the day etc. Think about the negative nature of porn, we have such a bad rep, that people when they signup typically cancel right away because its "porn, I know im gonna get screwed". We circle jerked people on the free end and then over charged them on the backend. Not all of this can be pinned on the "FREE" side of the business by any means.

Amputate Your Head · 05-12-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RP Fade

Yes and no. If one person is jumping off the bridge, does not mean everyone else has to and that it's a good idea. Copying good ideas is one thing, but copying things that are destructive and damaging is another.

For example, the record industry saw a common enemy and banded to together for the greater good of the industry. We see an enemy and try to figure out how we can milk it and make money at it. One shady program starts doing $100 pps payouts by either ripping off the surfer or the webmaster, other programs copy them just to compete, no matter how much of terrible idea and how damaging it is in the longrun.

I agree, but I must point out that this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RP Fade

One shady program starts doing $100 pps payouts by either ripping off the surfer or the webmaster, other programs copy them just to compete, no matter how much of terrible idea and how damaging it is in the longrun.

easily points right back to this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RP Fade

If one person is jumping off the bridge, does not mean everyone else has to and that it's a good idea.

So the question is, if it's damaging to your biz, why line up to jump off? And why have so many? I'm trying to relate to a program owner's perspective here, because I'm not one. I guess the closest thing I can think of as an analogy is how designers have a tendency to continue cutting their fees to nearly nothing, and in the case of "design contests" to literally nothing except for the "lucky" winner. I consider those things damaging to my business, and so I do not "jump off the bridge".

Only the program owners can explain why they do the things they do. I think they're all a little nutty anyway.

RP Fade · 05-12-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcidMax

Not all of this can be pinned on the "FREE" side of the business by any means.

Not at all, anyone that just blames one thing is foolish and myopic.

I think we are our own worst enemy and in 15 yrs in this biz, I constantly see it feeding on itself.

The Porn Nerd · 05-12-2010, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

Its fun to look at stats from day to day or month to month. But you really need long periods of time to get a good feel and you need large volumes of traffic to get good averages.

My sales can go up 100% one month from the next but its from MY work, not other conditions. The biggest factor that affects your sales is you.

Don't worry about the "summer slow down" unless you slow down. ie, there is no such thing as a summer slow down. People make less during the summer typically because that is when THEY work less. (see my first comment about you being the biggest factor controlling your sales). Programs might see dips during the summer but that is because their affiliates are working less. It is NOT because people stop jerking off during the summer

Absolutely true, and thanks for reminding me (and all of us): hard work never goes into a slump (unlike Jorge Posada).

2MuchMark · 05-12-2010, 03:16 PM

In a nutshell:

- Much more competition
- Too much free content
- Too much shit (Spam, Pop-ups, Pop-unders, Prechecked cross-sales, etc): People are more careful these days
- Yes cams are making millions these days but thats just evolution of taste: Consumers have become board with stills and videos and crave live interaction.

Tubes, Cams, competitos are here to stay. You have to learn to adapt in industry to survive. Your competition is adapting and innovating. Do the same or get out of their way.

AcidMax · 05-12-2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

So the question is, if it's damaging to your biz, why line up to jump off?

Because going back to Shap's point, they didn't have a braincell. They thought, "Hey Program A is making bank, I can too." Monkey see, monkey do. And its not just the design biz. Being a developer myself, it has happened in this business for ages. I got out of selling software to adult webmasters years ago because they all wanted something for nothing, while programmers were undercutting each other down to $10 an hour. They wanted any amount they could get instead of working and treating it like a real business.

RP Fade · 05-12-2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

So the question is, if it's damaging to your biz, why line up to jump off? And why have so many? I'm trying to relate to a program owner's perspective here, because I'm not one. I guess the closest thing I can think of as an analogy is how designers have a tendency to continue cutting their fees to nearly nothing, and in the case of "design contests" to literally nothing except for the "lucky" winner. I consider those things damaging to my business, and so I do not "jump off the bridge".

Only the program owners can explain why they do the things they do. I think they're all a little nutty anyway.

I think it boils down to Shap's earlier comment, those who want longevity 'steady as she goes' with a decent product/service vs those who want to make the most amount of money selling crap, the fastest way possible, by any means possible. If you're selling shit, and you know you're selling shit, and that sooner or later people are gonna catch on that it's shit and move on. Then you're presented with an opportunity to sell 100x more shit in the same amount of time, who wouldn't take that? You're already selling shit so your standards and perhaps morals are pretty low as-is

Maybe not the best example but hopefully you get my point..

See in your example, the designer is hurting other designers perhaps. I understand principles of competition and heck in my mainstream biz back in the old days, I was constantly undercut by competition because I wouldn't lower my prices, etc and that's part of the game. But in the case of shady programs and scammers, they are not only hurting the industry, the programs, our reputation, our lifeblood (visa, merchant banks, etc), they are also hurting our customer base. Their ripples reach many shores..

Major (Tom) · 05-12-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

There are a number of reasons our industry isn't doing great. Here, in my opinion, is one of the bigger ones....

The barrier to entry has always been very low. That coupled with the nature of our business has allowed a number of unqualified people get into the industry. People that shouldn't be in business in the first place. They were able to make good money because it was easy to make money. Now that times are tough they are completely screwed. They never truly understood why they were successful or how to be successful. They are trying to re-create the past with no success and don't know where to turn. The old tricks aren't working and they've blown all the money they had and are now screwed.

Now more than ever it's easy to see who the real entrepreneurs and who got lucky.

What do you think?

If the barrier of entry has always been low, now that things are tougher, it would mean less people in business. In fact there are less people in business. Therefore less supply. If you're theory was correct it's be like 1996 for those still in business, no?
thoughts?
Duke

dropped9 · 05-12-2010, 04:29 PM

I think the question is.... When was the last time YOU paid for porn?

Think about it...

Robbie · 05-12-2010, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headless

I think the question is.... When was the last time YOU paid for porn?

Think about it...

As an affiliate with access to any user/pass I want anytime...that doesn't really apply. To most of us in the biz it just doesn't really apply as most can get a user/pass with a simple email to the owner of the site.

I do see sites that I would join though. And every time I do it always comes down to the way a girl looks.

If the girl has something that makes my cock hard, that's what catches me. And that don't mean "perfect 10" babes either. Just some strange little quirk that makes my dick jump. It could be a real big ass on a skinny girl. Or a certain set of titties. Or a girls personality. But isn't that kinda what it's always been?

Then the next question I have to ask is...do I need to join this site to see what I want? Or is it already totally and completely ripped and free on a torrent site?

Or if I join the site do I have a chance to fuck her? Or at least establish an online relationship with her via email etc.

That's the kind of thing that really makes a site special. A girl who has that certain "it" factor. A great personality. Live interaction. And communication with members.

People WILL buy that.

The harder sell are the big mega sites full of outsourced content or even in-house production content of girls for hire that can be found everywhere else and you can't interact with them on the site you're trying to sell.

Amputate Your Head · 05-12-2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

As an affiliate with access to any user/pass I want anytime...that doesn't really apply. To most of us in the biz it just doesn't really apply as most can get a user/pass with a simple email to the owner of the site.

I do see sites that I would join though. And every time I do it always comes down to the way a girl looks.

If the girl has something that makes my cock hard, that's what catches me. And that don't mean "perfect 10" babes either. Just some strange little quirk that makes my dick jump. It could be a real big ass on a skinny girl. Or a certain set of titties. Or a girls personality. But isn't that kinda what it's always been?

Then the next question I have to ask is...do I need to join this site to see what I want? Or is it already totally and completely ripped and free on a torrent site?

Or if I join the site do I have a chance to fuck her? Or at least establish an online relationship with her via email etc.

That's the kind of thing that really makes a site special. A girl who has that certain "it" factor. A great personality. Live interaction. And communication with members.

People WILL buy that.

The harder sell are the big mega sites full of outsourced content or even in-house production content of girls for hire that can be found everywhere else and you can't interact with them on the site you're trying to sell.

I think you're talking about two different professions here. One being the business of selling memberships, and the other being an actual pimp.

dropped9 · 05-12-2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

As an affiliate with access to any user/pass I want anytime...that doesn't really apply. To most of us in the biz it just doesn't really apply as most can get a user/pass with a simple email to the owner of the site.

I do see sites that I would join though. And every time I do it always comes down to the way a girl looks.

If the girl has something that makes my cock hard, that's what catches me. And that don't mean "perfect 10" babes either. Just some strange little quirk that makes my dick jump. It could be a real big ass on a skinny girl. Or a certain set of titties. Or a girls personality. But isn't that kinda what it's always been?

Then the next question I have to ask is...do I need to join this site to see what I want? Or is it already totally and completely ripped and free on a torrent site?

Or if I join the site do I have a chance to fuck her? Or at least establish an online relationship with her via email etc.

That's the kind of thing that really makes a site special. A girl who has that certain "it" factor. A great personality. Live interaction. And communication with members.

People WILL buy that.

The harder sell are the big mega sites full of outsourced content or even in-house production content of girls for hire that can be found everywhere else and you can't interact with them on the site you're trying to sell.

I agree 100%.

What I am saying is... In todays world nobody has to pay to jerk it. We can find anything we want for free. Its just the way it is.... The only people who are going to pay for porn will find that extra "value" added. Whether they find it by a tickle in their pickle or some other way...

Thats what different today verses 10 years ago... It's just too easy to find it free.

Amputate Your Head · 05-12-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headless

I agree 100%.

What I am saying is... In todays world nobody has to pay to jerk it. We can find anything we want for free. Its just the way it is.... The only people who are going to pay for porn will find that extra "value" added. Whether they find it by a tickle in their pickle or some other way...

Thats what different today verses 10 years ago... It's just too easy to find it free.

What about these mainstream media companies that are either already charging for their content, or are about to be? Is there really anything in the Wall Street Journal that I can't find for free? So why does anyone pay for it?

dropped9 · 05-12-2010, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

What about these mainstream media companies that are either already charging for their content, or are about to be? Is there really anything in the Wall Street Journal that I can't find for free? So why does anyone pay for it?

The only people that pay for the service are either 1. doing so because it's the "right thing" to do... or 2. They enjoy the ease of access premium content.

dyna mo · 05-12-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headless

The only people that pay for the service are either 1. doing so because it's the "right thing" to do... or 2. They enjoy the ease of access premium content.

there are a lot of these types people in the world.

imo, tubes skimmed off many of the free loaders that would of never paid anyway.

Amputate Your Head · 05-12-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headless

The only people that pay for the service are either 1. doing so because it's the "right thing" to do... or 2. They enjoy the ease of access premium content.

And that's all anyone is ever going to get. Whether it's the WSJ or "Watch Me Fuck My Donkey .com"

This whole topic has been kicking around for at least ten years. Everything is out there. It's just the way it is. Anything is free if you want to spend a few minutes looking for it. Freeloaders can't be bullied or forced into buying memberships. No amount of discussion is ever going to change that. It's no different than the cable & satellite companies. I can probably see everything I want online if I spend enough time looking around, or watch from a friend's tv, (like sharing a password). But I prefer the convenience of premium content that does not require effort on my part to view at any time. That's why I continue to pay them. But you can't win them all. There will always be people that refuse to pay for television as well. The online adult biz is not special or different.

Noe · 05-12-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

Trust me you are wrong. My team and I have spent many hours researching our stats (as well as others). The downturn in tgp traffic (and other sources) started before tubes. It started when Myspace and Facebook blew up.

Interesting to note.

mineistaken · 05-12-2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Too much free content = less sales... period!

Stop giving everything away for free, and maybe people will care to buy again.

Sales still exist, despite the industries best efforts to destroy itself from within, but as long as you are giving the milk away for free there is less and less reason for anyone to buy the cow.

This! Main main reason, everything else mentioned is valid, but this is the main.

dropped9 · 05-12-2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

And that's all anyone is ever going to get. Whether it's the WSJ or "Watch Me Fuck My Donkey .com"

This whole topic has been kicking around for at least ten years. Everything is out there. It's just the way it is. Anything is free if you want to spend a few minutes looking for it. Freeloaders can't be bullied or forced into buying memberships. No amount of discussion is ever going to change that. It's no different than the cable & satellite companies. I can probably see everything I want online if I spend enough time looking around, or watch from a friend's tv, (like sharing a password). But I prefer the convenience of premium content that does not require effort on my part to view at any time. That's why I continue to pay them. But you can't win them all. There will always be people that refuse to pay for television as well. The online adult biz is not special or different.

100% correct.

Difference between today and 10 years ago. Its much more easier to find the free shit today then ever before.

Maybe we should blame google? HAHAA

dropped9 · 05-12-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

there are a lot of these types people in the world.

imo, tubes skimmed off many of the free loaders that would of never paid anyway.

Nice way too look at it... But wouldn't then ratios improve if we use the same thinking?

Noe · 05-12-2010, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RP Fade

Instead of innovating, they copy. Instead of creating, they steal. And so on..

I agree with you Fade.

Noe · 05-12-2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

This is a brilliant site. It is to webcam sites what tubes are to porn sites.

http://www.myfreecams.com/

I have no affiliation, and the reason I am aware of it is because the URL was posted here on GFY a number of times now.

You can communicate directly with the models, and ask them to do whatever you want, in real time.

It is not FB, but I suppose it is a social network of some sort.

A genius business model, and no affiliate program at all.

Addictive, dirty, and fun.

Will likely serve as the new webcam business model for the next generation of webcam sites. Not sure how it helps me in any way, but certainly interesting on many levels.

Easy, innovative, assorted models, direct communication, live sex... brilliant!

That's because Leo is a brilliant business man who runs his businesses with old school business fundamentals.

The Porn Nerd · 05-12-2010, 05:31 PM

One of the biggest problems this Industry faces is that porn, adult, etc has hit a 'tech wall' that's hard to bust through.

What I mean is that porn was always the leader in technology, from VCRs to DVDs and CD-Roms, then online, etc. But once you've gone to the "watch porn on your phone! Watch it on your watch! On your laptop, on your car phone, on this, on that..." then we've hit a wall. People keep saying INNOVATE! But HOW?

At the end of the day it's really quite simple, isn't it? We sell pictures and movies for people to masturbate to and fantasize over. Case closed. So getting interactive is fine, great, but 3D porn? Virtual porn? What's next, and how do we even get there? Consumers won't have 3-D porn machines setup for us to sell to. LOL

No, we've gone just about as far as technology will take us so it comes down to selling shit you can't get for free, or things (fetish) people know they have to pay more to see and can't easily find free (horses pissing, etc). Ramp up the illusion a member can fuck his dream girl somehow, whether it be through chat or cams or emails. But in the end this is IT ladies and gentlemen. There IS no 'next big thing" we're all waiting for to "save us". THIS is it.

Besides, if something DOES come along to revolutionize this Industry and re-start the gold rush it'll come out of nowhere, and no one will see it coming, so why fret? Either continue to work yer ass off, maybe re-adjust your expectations, or stop. If it gets too much in terms of effort vs. little reward then get out and do something else. Chances are you had a life before Adult so chances are you'll have one after Adult, right?

I like to simplify things, you see.

Amputate Your Head · 05-12-2010, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

One of the biggest problems this Industry faces is that porn, adult, etc has hit a 'tech wall' that's hard to bust through.

What I mean is that porn was always the leader in technology, from VCRs to DVDs and CD-Roms, then online, etc. But once you've gone to the "watch porn on your phone! Watch it on your watch! On your laptop, on your car phone, on this, on that..." then we've hit a wall. People keep saying INNOVATE! But HOW?

At the end of the day it's really quite simple, isn't it? We sell pictures and movies for people to masturbate to and fantasize over. Case closed. So getting interactive is fine, great, but 3D porn? Virtual porn? What's next, and how do we even get there? Consumers won't have 3-D porn machines setup for us to sell to. LOL

No, we've gone just about as far as technology will take us so it comes down to selling shit you can't get for free, or things (fetish) people know they have to pay more to see and can't easily find free (horses pissing, etc). Ramp up the illusion a member can fuck his dream girl somehow, whether it be through chat or cams or emails. But in the end this is IT ladies and gentlemen. There IS no 'next big thing" we're all waiting for to "save us". THIS is it.

Besides, if something DOES come along to revolutionize this Industry and re-start the gold rush it'll come out of nowhere, and no one will see it coming, so why fret? Either continue to work yer ass off, maybe re-adjust your expectations, or stop. If it gets too much in terms of effort vs. little reward then get out and do something else. Chances are you had a life before Adult so chances are you'll have one after Adult, right?

I like to simplify things, you see.

There it is. Well put. There's no mysticism or sorcery or conspiracies or secret porn webmaster "leader" lairs involved. There's no next big innovative game changer around the corner. I totally agree with the tech wall idea. We are at it. The only thing beyond it is exactly what you said, selling or not selling. Stuff like 3-D porn is just a gimmick aimed at a very limited market: People with money to burn to be able to buy the shit required to view such things.

dyna mo · 05-12-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headless

Nice way too look at it... But wouldn't then ratios improve if we use the same thinking?

i can only speak to my ratios, which are better than in the past. i am not saying sales are up because they are not.

that being said, i have increased customer service significantly and taken a much more pro-active sales approach with my customer base.

BaldBastard · 05-12-2010, 05:41 PM

I think a lot of people forget when the net was young 97-2000 porn was basically the only way to make money online. As mainstream caught up more and more of the early innovators left and continued to do so til we have the current team. All too often it was the innovators who made nothing, they were smart enough to program and get traffic but then they had no idea how to milk it.

Also Shapy forgets that even more got out like myself because of the legal liability, I had no issues with showing a pretty face and linking to a tour, but if getting traffic now means having to actually show muff..... I'll leave that to you 'smart' guys and continue milking 3d worlds.

BV · 05-12-2010, 05:43 PM

This is a waste of time.

Nothing any of us can do is going to fix a dam thing.

This business as some of us once knew it is long gone FOREVER!

It will never be like it was.

The only hope we have is that the economy picks up and millions of people get their credit limits back. ( and I don't see that happening any time soon)

And when it finally does, there will be 1000% more free porn than there is now.

I don't see free porn going away.

It has only increased year after year since the beginning and logic tells me that it will keep doing so. (none of us can stop it)

dyna mo · 05-12-2010, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BV

It has only increased year after year since the beginning and logic tells me that it will keep doing so. (none of us can stop it)

and that's why i am putting most of my energy and resources into a mainstream product!

Robbie · 05-12-2010, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

I think a lot of people forget when the net was young 97-2000 porn was basically the only way to make money online.

Not so. I made a fortune in sending leads to American Express in 1998. They were paying 10 cents per click. There were a LOT of ways to make money at the beginning in mainstream online. You're talking about the "internet bubble" years in the late 1990's. It was exploding.

Kingfish · 05-12-2010, 06:19 PM

Perhaps today?s copyright ruling could bring an end to industry suffering:
http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/968182-copyright-ruling-limewire-crushed-riaa-infringement-lawsuit.html

Shap · 05-12-2010, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BV

It will never be like it was.

The only hope we have is that the economy picks up and millions of people get their credit limits back. ( and I don't see that happening any time soon)

I don't see free porn going away.

It has only increased year after year since the beginning and logic tells me that it will keep doing so. (none of us can stop it)

BV we don't always see eye to eye but I agree 100% with you.

05-12-2010, 02:27 PM	#151
stever Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,715	so traffic is up but sales are down so i guess people are not busy surfing other types of sites (non porn) in reality they are busy getting free porn instead of paying for it and who knows maybe all these other types of sites would have even more traffic if these people were not so busy with free porn? ever think of it that way? i think people are watching porn now more than ever before __________________ Brutal Bucks has extreme sites that convert!

05-12-2010, 02:29 PM	#154
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 64,120	Last edited by dyna mo; 05-12-2010 at 02:31 PM..

05-12-2010, 02:40 PM	#156
Nysus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,817	I would say you're right. It's not the industry suffering, but the people in the industry suffering because they can't adapt because they, as you said, don't know why they were making money. Good 2 cents. __________________ What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets See http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948258-untouchedmarkets-pr0-refund-money-post16744521.html and for more detailed see http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948645-re-recent-bullshit-drama-explained-detail-pr0-untouched-markets.html

05-12-2010, 02:42 PM	#157
RP Fade Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,343	I agree with you Shap but I also think that instead of being unified, we're fragmented. Instead of debilitating, we enable. Instead of innovating, they copy. Instead of creating, they steal. And so on.. __________________ HomemadeCash.com - Homemade & GF sites powered by NScash.com HomemadeVideoPass.com - The only all homemade mega site OurHomemadePorno.com - Real couples fucking on camera Contact ICQ: 400-786-531 Email: fade AT nscash.com

05-12-2010, 02:59 PM	#168
RP Fade Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,343	ps: long time no talk Shap, send our love to Beth, Grant and everyone else __________________ HomemadeCash.com - Homemade & GF sites powered by NScash.com HomemadeVideoPass.com - The only all homemade mega site OurHomemadePorno.com - Real couples fucking on camera Contact ICQ: 400-786-531 Email: fade AT nscash.com

05-12-2010, 03:16 PM	#174
2MuchMark Videochat Solutions Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 48,668	In a nutshell: - Much more competition - Too much free content - Too much shit (Spam, Pop-ups, Pop-unders, Prechecked cross-sales, etc): People are more careful these days - Yes cams are making millions these days but thats just evolution of taste: Consumers have become board with stills and videos and crave live interaction. Tubes, Cams, competitos are here to stay. You have to learn to adapt in industry to survive. Your competition is adapting and innovating. Do the same or get out of their way. __________________ Custom Software \| Server Management \| Integration and Technology Solutions https://www.2much.net

05-12-2010, 04:29 PM	#178
dropped9 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Your moms box Posts: 26,727	I think the question is.... When was the last time YOU paid for porn? Think about it...

05-12-2010, 05:31 PM	#192
The Porn Nerd Living The Dream Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Inside a Monitor Posts: 19,527	One of the biggest problems this Industry faces is that porn, adult, etc has hit a 'tech wall' that's hard to bust through. What I mean is that porn was always the leader in technology, from VCRs to DVDs and CD-Roms, then online, etc. But once you've gone to the "watch porn on your phone! Watch it on your watch! On your laptop, on your car phone, on this, on that..." then we've hit a wall. People keep saying INNOVATE! But HOW? At the end of the day it's really quite simple, isn't it? We sell pictures and movies for people to masturbate to and fantasize over. Case closed. So getting interactive is fine, great, but 3D porn? Virtual porn? What's next, and how do we even get there? Consumers won't have 3-D porn machines setup for us to sell to. LOL No, we've gone just about as far as technology will take us so it comes down to selling shit you can't get for free, or things (fetish) people know they have to pay more to see and can't easily find free (horses pissing, etc). Ramp up the illusion a member can fuck his dream girl somehow, whether it be through chat or cams or emails. But in the end this is IT ladies and gentlemen. There IS no 'next big thing" we're all waiting for to "save us". THIS is it. Besides, if something DOES come along to revolutionize this Industry and re-start the gold rush it'll come out of nowhere, and no one will see it coming, so why fret? Either continue to work yer ass off, maybe re-adjust your expectations, or stop. If it gets too much in terms of effort vs. little reward then get out and do something else. Chances are you had a life before Adult so chances are you'll have one after Adult, right? I like to simplify things, you see. __________________ My Affiliate Programs: Porn Nerd Cash \| Porn Showcase \| Aggressive Gold Over 90 paysites to promote! Now on Teams: peabodymedia Last edited by The Porn Nerd; 05-12-2010 at 05:34 PM..

05-12-2010, 05:41 PM	#195
BaldBastard Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 15,941	I think a lot of people forget when the net was young 97-2000 porn was basically the only way to make money online. As mainstream caught up more and more of the early innovators left and continued to do so til we have the current team. All too often it was the innovators who made nothing, they were smart enough to program and get traffic but then they had no idea how to milk it. Also Shapy forgets that even more got out like myself because of the legal liability, I had no issues with showing a pretty face and linking to a tour, but if getting traffic now means having to actually show muff..... I'll leave that to you 'smart' guys and continue milking 3d worlds.

05-12-2010, 05:43 PM	#196
BV wtf Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Bikini State, FL USA Posts: 10,914	This is a waste of time. Nothing any of us can do is going to fix a dam thing. This business as some of us once knew it is long gone FOREVER! It will never be like it was. The only hope we have is that the economy picks up and millions of people get their credit limits back. ( and I don't see that happening any time soon) And when it finally does, there will be 1000% more free porn than there is now. I don't see free porn going away. It has only increased year after year since the beginning and logic tells me that it will keep doing so. (none of us can stop it)

05-12-2010, 06:19 PM	#199
Kingfish Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 668	Perhaps today?s copyright ruling could bring an end to industry suffering: http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/968182-copyright-ruling-limewire-crushed-riaa-infringement-lawsuit.html