How easy is it to make a chargeback? - GoFuckYourself.com

greg80 · 05-25-2010, 04:20 PM

I was just wondering, how easy is it to make a chargeback for a charge on your card? Never needed to do that. Do people just call their bank and say they bought something online, are not happy and get the charge reversed?

seeandsee · 05-25-2010, 04:21 PM

call a bank of yours and ask. I think there are different rules about max time of CB

Fat Panda · 05-25-2010, 04:22 PM

My CC let me do it online

BIGTYMER · 05-25-2010, 04:24 PM

Its easy just call your bank.

fatfoo · 05-25-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg80

I was just wondering, how easy is it to make a chargeback for a charge on your card? Never needed to do that. Do people just call their bank and say they bought something online, are not happy and get the charge reversed?

That's like saying you take $100 cash bills from the bank and buy something and then you call the bank to give you the $100 cash bills back. I don't think it can be done. Good luck. You have to talk to the seller to get the money back, don't you?

greg80 · 05-25-2010, 04:32 PM

I don't need to do it. I am just asking in general, about the people that make purchases online and than chargeback. Is it really as easy as clicking on a charge in on your online banking and request a chargeback and get it without a problem?

greg80 · 05-25-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfoo

That's like saying you take $100 cash bills from the bank and buy something and then you call the bank to give you the $100 cash bills back. I don't think it can be done. Good luck. You have to talk to the seller to get the money back, don't you?

Amal, isn't it getting a bit late in India? Shouldn't you be in bed already?

Barefootsies · 05-25-2010, 04:37 PM

Very easy.

Call bank. Dispute charge. They issue a credit. They send you a form to fill out. The end.

docputer · 05-25-2010, 04:41 PM

You will have to contact your bank or card issuer. Some banks require you to go to a branch, but many will have online forms to fill out. With card issuers like Cap one, Chase ,Amex etc, you call the customer service # on the card and they will start the process. The situation can be different depending on the issuer and whether you were using a credit or debit card.
You would contact the seller if you have an issue with the transaction and you are seeking a refund, a chargeback is used when the seller will not refund the transaction.

greg80 · 05-25-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Very easy.

Call bank. Dispute charge. They issue a credit. They send you a form to fill out. The end.

so you can buy any membership online and if you don't like it, simply charge it back?

GrouchyAdmin · 05-25-2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg80

so you can buy any membership online and if you don't like it, simply charge it back?

For the most part. It's now up to the vendor to have proof - IF the bank even contacts them before issuing it. Log logins, people. Log logins.

Robbie · 05-25-2010, 06:14 PM

It is NOT easy to dispute a charge at all...for mainstream that is.

I told this story almost 2 years ago...I looked on my bank Visa/Debit card and had a couple of charges. One was for someone's cable bill! The other I don't recall at the moment. But neither was an adult site.

I went down to my bank with my statement and showed them. I had to fill out a lot of forms. Then I waited. And waited. While they investigated it. Almost a month later they finally reversed those charges.

Now in porn? It seems to be no problem at all. I've seen chargebacks happen within hours of signup. Not a Credit...but a chargeback. And you can't do a damn thing about it in porn.

I have a VOD section using phantomflicks. And that allows me to see the activity of the person buying a download of a video. So I see when they tried, how big the file size is that they downloaded and of course whether it is successful.

That is an actual purchase of a video scene. And I have all the info proving they downloaded it and received the product.

So you can imagine how angry it makes me when I get a chargeback the same day on the purchase! Not a month, not an "investigation"...just BAM! CC Bill does the chargeback and then drills you a nice little "fee" on top of the huge percentage they already take for processing.

I suppose porn is considered "high risk" (which is code word for Christians wish we were all out of business), so a chargeback on porn is nice and easy to do. Plus the credit card processing company makes that nice fee so it's profitable for them to make it easy for the chargeback as well.

The loser? The site owner. As usual in everything it seems in our business.

LoveSandra · 05-25-2010, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGTYMER

Its easy just call your bank.

indeed

lagcam · 05-25-2010, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg80

so you can buy any membership online and if you don't like it, simply charge it back?

Before people think about going on a purchase a then chargeback spree, somebody should add a cautionary note here that if you are a consumer who regularly purchases things with a credit card or who cares about his credit rating, a chargeback should be a LAST RESORT as you could find yourself "blacklisted" and you could find your card declined a lot more often if not always.

if you have a problem with a purchase, always try and discuss a refund with a merchant first, honest merchants will normally refund where there is reason. If they don't then ask your bank.

Raja · 05-25-2010, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

It is NOT easy to dispute a charge at all...for mainstream that is.

I told this story almost 2 years ago...I looked on my bank Visa/Debit card and had a couple of charges. One was for someone's cable bill! The other I don't recall at the moment. But neither was an adult site.

I went down to my bank with my statement and showed them. I had to fill out a lot of forms. Then I waited. And waited. While they investigated it. Almost a month later they finally reversed those charges.

Now in porn? It seems to be no problem at all. I've seen chargebacks happen within hours of signup. Not a Credit...but a chargeback. And you can't do a damn thing about it in porn.

I have a VOD section using phantomflicks. And that allows me to see the activity of the person buying a download of a video. So I see when they tried, how big the file size is that they downloaded and of course whether it is successful.

That is an actual purchase of a video scene. And I have all the info proving they downloaded it and received the product.

So you can imagine how angry it makes me when I get a chargeback the same day on the purchase! Not a month, not an "investigation"...just BAM! CC Bill does the chargeback and then drills you a nice little "fee" on top of the huge percentage they already take for processing.

I suppose porn is considered "high risk" (which is code word for Christians wish we were all out of business), so a chargeback on porn is nice and easy to do. Plus the credit card processing company makes that nice fee so it's profitable for them to make it easy for the chargeback as well.

The loser? The site owner. As usual in everything it seems in our business.

There are only two ways a merchant can dispute a chargeback:
1) Proof of goods shipped
2) Signature at point of purchase

Since we can't provide either of those things we're fucked.

Raja · 05-25-2010, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raja

There are only two ways a merchant can dispute a chargeback:
1) Proof of goods shipped
2) Signature at point of purchase

Since we can't provide either of those things we're fucked.

This is also why it's a simple phone call to charge back a monthly internet subscription (porn or not) and why you have to fill out forms for anything else.

Robbie · 05-25-2010, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raja

There are only two ways a merchant can dispute a chargeback:
1) Proof of goods shipped
2) Signature at point of purchase

Since we can't provide either of those things we're fucked.

Obviously NOT mainstream merchants. Otherwise, why did I have to go to the bank, fill out forms, and then wait a month? The two charges I had that were misuse of my card had neither of those.

There's no way that anybody is going to a bank when they download a vid from my VOD section and then an hour later I get a chargeback from CC Bill. Nope. They are simply going to CC Bill and charging back no questions asked. And CC Bill makes it's money processing AND hitting me with a fee.

I'm not hating. I'm just saying, I'm in this biz to make money. And I know a revenue stream when I see one.

Raja · 05-25-2010, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Obviously NOT mainstream merchants. Otherwise, why did I have to go to the bank, fill out forms, and then wait a month? The two charges I had that were misuse of my card had neither of those.

There's no way that anybody is going to a bank when they download a vid from my VOD section and then an hour later I get a chargeback from CC Bill. Nope. They are simply going to CC Bill and charging back no questions asked. And CC Bill makes it's money processing AND hitting me with a fee.

I'm not hating. I'm just saying, I'm in this biz to make money. And I know a revenue stream when I see one.

If they went to CCBill, CCBill would issue a credit not a chargeback. The surfer called their bank and charged back. CCBill simply passed the chargeback fee onto you. I am sure that CCBill's support staff are trained to issue a credit when the surfer even mentions a chargeback and I doubt even more that CCBill are issuing credits and calling them chargebacks to make a few extra bucks.

SmokeyTheBear · 05-25-2010, 10:27 PM

heres a real chargeback form as an example

http://www.pennstatefederal.com/pdf/chargeback.pdf

Robbie · 05-25-2010, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raja

If they went to CCBill, CCBill would issue a credit not a chargeback. The surfer called their bank and charged back. CCBill simply passed the chargeback fee onto you. I am sure that CCBill's support staff are trained to issue a credit when the surfer even mentions a chargeback and I doubt even more that CCBill are issuing credits and calling them chargebacks to make a few extra bucks.

Ok, it's a free country.

To each his own experience.

SmokeyTheBear · 05-25-2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Obviously NOT mainstream merchants. Otherwise, why did I have to go to the bank, fill out forms, and then wait a month? The two charges I had that were misuse of my card had neither of those.

There's no way that anybody is going to a bank when they download a vid from my VOD section and then an hour later I get a chargeback from CC Bill. Nope. They are simply going to CC Bill and charging back no questions asked. And CC Bill makes it's money processing AND hitting me with a fee.

I'm not hating. I'm just saying, I'm in this biz to make money. And I know a revenue stream when I see one.

when a surfer makes a chargeback ( can be online ) the merchant has a time period to dispute the chargeback, i am assuming ccbill likely does not bother disputing any transaction and instantly hits you with a chargeback. Could be both , either way to manually dispute a charge would cost ccbill more employee time than what they make from the processing of the sale had it gone through so it's no wonder they don't dispute them , but then again it sends a message to surfer that he can buy and not pay

WiredGuy · 05-25-2010, 10:37 PM

Its rather easy to contest a charge, call the bank, tell them you didn't make the purchase and they'll send you a form and its pretty much reversed at that point unless they can prove you did in fact make the purchase (signature, delivery of goods).
WG

Robbie · 05-25-2010, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

Its rather easy to contest a charge, call the bank, tell them you didn't make the purchase and they'll send you a form and its pretty much reversed at that point unless they can prove you did in fact make the purchase (signature, delivery of goods).
WG

Again, that is NOT what I experienced when my bank Visa/Debit card was used in another state to pay somebodies cable bill. I had to go to the bank, fill out the form, sit with a banker while they went over my account and basically spend about an hour at the bank during my working hours. Then it was still a month later before the money showed up back in my account as they were "investigating" it.

That's the point I'm making. If it's a mainstream purchase being disputed, the banks make sure to investigate it. If it's a porn site chargeback...they instantly okay it with extreme prejudice.

Raja · 05-25-2010, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Again, that is NOT what I experienced when my bank Visa/Debit card was used in another state to pay somebodies cable bill. I had to go to the bank, fill out the form, sit with a banker while they went over my account and basically spend about an hour at the bank during my working hours. Then it was still a month later before the money showed up back in my account as they were "investigating" it.

That's the point I'm making. If it's a mainstream purchase being disputed, the banks make sure to investigate it. If it's a porn site chargeback...they instantly okay it with extreme prejudice.

My guess is that banks issue a chargeback so quickly on internet subscriptions because they know the merchant really has no chance to dispute it so there is no point in making the customer fill out paperwork.
My other theory is that historically our industry has been banging cards for so long that the banks just assume that the vast majority of internet subscription customers who call have a legitimate beef and it's cheaper just to issue chargebacks without even bothering to hear the merchant side of the story.
Maybe one day the CEO of BofA will sit down with me and answer all my questions.

Robbie · 05-25-2010, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raja

My other theory is that historically our industry has been banging cards for so long that the banks just assume that the vast majority of internet subscription customers who call have a legitimate beef and it's cheaper just to issue chargebacks without even bothering to hear the merchant side of the story..

What do you consider to be "banging cards" ? You mean x-sells? Well...mainstream did it longer than we have. And the only reason a chargeback should ever happen is IF your credit card number was STOLEN and/or you ordered something and got a defective product and the company wouldn't replace it for you. In theory that is what a chargeback is for. Not because you joined a porn site last month when you were drunk and forgot about it and freaked out when you saw a charge on your card.

And my member logs show me that is EXACTLY what is happening many times on chargebacks. When I see a chargeback come in and I look him up and see he joined at 4 in the morning and then logged in one time for 30 minutes that night...and now 3 months later he's on a chargeback spree....that ain't got nothing to do with "banging cards" (which is done more in mainstream anyway than adult ever dreamed of)

My feeling is that since it's porn...the banks just don't give a fuck about us. Neither does the govt. Matter of fact they probably hope that all of our shit charges back and we all go out of business. It's always been that way, and it always will be that way here in the U.S.

rowan · 05-26-2010, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfoo

That's like saying you take $100 cash bills from the bank and buy something and then you call the bank to give you the $100 cash bills back. I don't think it can be done. Good luck. You have to talk to the seller to get the money back, don't you?

Thanks for confirming you really have no idea about this industry.

greg80 · 05-26-2010, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

It is NOT easy to dispute a charge at all...for mainstream that is.

I told this story almost 2 years ago...I looked on my bank Visa/Debit card and had a couple of charges. One was for someone's cable bill! The other I don't recall at the moment. But neither was an adult site.

I went down to my bank with my statement and showed them. I had to fill out a lot of forms. Then I waited. And waited. While they investigated it. Almost a month later they finally reversed those charges.

Now in porn? It seems to be no problem at all. I've seen chargebacks happen within hours of signup. Not a Credit...but a chargeback. And you can't do a damn thing about it in porn.

I have a VOD section using phantomflicks. And that allows me to see the activity of the person buying a download of a video. So I see when they tried, how big the file size is that they downloaded and of course whether it is successful.

That is an actual purchase of a video scene. And I have all the info proving they downloaded it and received the product.

So you can imagine how angry it makes me when I get a chargeback the same day on the purchase! Not a month, not an "investigation"...just BAM! CC Bill does the chargeback and then drills you a nice little "fee" on top of the huge percentage they already take for processing.

I suppose porn is considered "high risk" (which is code word for Christians wish we were all out of business), so a chargeback on porn is nice and easy to do. Plus the credit card processing company makes that nice fee so it's profitable for them to make it easy for the chargeback as well.

The loser? The site owner. As usual in everything it seems in our business.

great reply!

lagcam · 05-26-2010, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raja

If they went to CCBill, CCBill would issue a credit not a chargeback. The surfer called their bank and charged back. CCBill simply passed the chargeback fee onto you. I am sure that CCBill's support staff are trained to issue a credit when the surfer even mentions a chargeback and I doubt even more that CCBill are issuing credits and calling them chargebacks to make a few extra bucks.

Yes in an ideal word that SHOULD happen Raja, but it doesn't always.

I have had the exact same experience as Robbie with ccbill in this regard ie a less than 2 hour old "chargeback" which should have been a "VOID" or at worst a "refund".

As always when you query something like this with ccbill you get the standard "We have no control over chargebacks they are instigated by the customer's bank" and then when you explain that it's not actually possible for the process to be effected so quickly you get the same worthless standard reply.

ottopottomouse · 05-26-2010, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Very easy.

Call bank. Dispute charge. They issue a credit. They send you a form to fill out. The end.

I've never had to argue about something I had actually bought but with both times my card managed to get things on it that were nothing to do with me - first 2x £400 theatre tickets, then a £3800 cash transfer

it was pretty painless to sort out.

Paul Markham · 05-26-2010, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raja

If they went to CCBill, CCBill would issue a credit not a chargeback. The surfer called their bank and charged back. CCBill simply passed the chargeback fee onto you. I am sure that CCBill's support staff are trained to issue a credit when the surfer even mentions a chargeback and I doubt even more that CCBill are issuing credits and calling them chargebacks to make a few extra bucks.

From my understanding the last thing any processor wants is more chargebacks on it's books.

Made a couple over the years, none to porn sites, had to fill in a form and it was approved in a matter of weeks.

Long time ago I was selling porn videos via mail order and had a customer chargeback a big amount. As I was sending stuff out via normal post I had no proof of delivery and had to swallow the CB.

05-25-2010, 04:20 PM	#1
greg80 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,644	How easy is it to make a chargeback? I was just wondering, how easy is it to make a chargeback for a charge on your card? Never needed to do that. Do people just call their bank and say they bought something online, are not happy and get the charge reversed? __________________ Say no to GoDaddy and high renewal prices! Go with NameSilo - FREE private whois for life, $8.99 regstrations and renewals. Free redirects, emails, great control panel and more! NameSilo rocks!

05-25-2010, 04:21 PM	#2
seeandsee Check SIG! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europe (Skype: gojkoas) Posts: 50,945	call a bank of yours and ask. I think there are different rules about max time of CB __________________ BUY MY SIG - 50$/Year Contact here

05-25-2010, 04:32 PM	#6
greg80 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,644	I don't need to do it. I am just asking in general, about the people that make purchases online and than chargeback. Is it really as easy as clicking on a charge in on your online banking and request a chargeback and get it without a problem? __________________ Say no to GoDaddy and high renewal prices! Go with NameSilo - FREE private whois for life, $8.99 regstrations and renewals. Free redirects, emails, great control panel and more! NameSilo rocks!

05-25-2010, 04:37 PM	#8
Barefootsies Choice is an Illusion Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of Obama Posts: 42,635	Very easy. Call bank. Dispute charge. They issue a credit. They send you a form to fill out. The end. __________________ Should You Email Your Members? Link1 \| Link2 \| Link3 Enough Said. "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

05-25-2010, 06:14 PM	#12
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,958	It is NOT easy to dispute a charge at all...for mainstream that is. I told this story almost 2 years ago...I looked on my bank Visa/Debit card and had a couple of charges. One was for someone's cable bill! The other I don't recall at the moment. But neither was an adult site. I went down to my bank with my statement and showed them. I had to fill out a lot of forms. Then I waited. And waited. While they investigated it. Almost a month later they finally reversed those charges. Now in porn? It seems to be no problem at all. I've seen chargebacks happen within hours of signup. Not a Credit...but a chargeback. And you can't do a damn thing about it in porn. I have a VOD section using phantomflicks. And that allows me to see the activity of the person buying a download of a video. So I see when they tried, how big the file size is that they downloaded and of course whether it is successful. That is an actual purchase of a video scene. And I have all the info proving they downloaded it and received the product. So you can imagine how angry it makes me when I get a chargeback the same day on the purchase! Not a month, not an "investigation"...just BAM! CC Bill does the chargeback and then drills you a nice little "fee" on top of the huge percentage they already take for processing. I suppose porn is considered "high risk" (which is code word for Christians wish we were all out of business), so a chargeback on porn is nice and easy to do. Plus the credit card processing company makes that nice fee so it's profitable for them to make it easy for the chargeback as well. The loser? The site owner. As usual in everything it seems in our business. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com Last edited by Robbie; 05-25-2010 at 06:15 PM..

05-25-2010, 04:22 PM	#3
Fat Panda Porn is Dead. Move along. Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 13,295	My CC let me do it online

05-25-2010, 04:24 PM	#4
BIGTYMER Junior Achiever Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Walled Garden Posts: 17,066	Its easy just call your bank.

05-25-2010, 04:41 PM	#9
docputer Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,103	You will have to contact your bank or card issuer. Some banks require you to go to a branch, but many will have online forms to fill out. With card issuers like Cap one, Chase ,Amex etc, you call the customer service # on the card and they will start the process. The situation can be different depending on the issuer and whether you were using a credit or debit card. You would contact the seller if you have an issue with the transaction and you are seeking a refund, a chargeback is used when the seller will not refund the transaction.

05-25-2010, 10:27 PM	#19
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	heres a real chargeback form as an example http://www.pennstatefederal.com/pdf/chargeback.pdf __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com

05-25-2010, 10:37 PM	#22
WiredGuy Pounding Googlebot Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 34,451	Its rather easy to contest a charge, call the bank, tell them you didn't make the purchase and they'll send you a form and its pretty much reversed at that point unless they can prove you did in fact make the purchase (signature, delivery of goods). WG __________________ I play with Google.