Failed

I was given two options today in regard to my grandmother who fell and broke her hip before Christmas. Put her in a nursing home, or pay to put her in a 24 hour care home. Her insurance for what they can do in the hospital runs out in 7 days. I saw my great grandmother fade away in a nursing home, which looked like a prison for old people, so I refuse to do that to my grandmother. Unless they've improved in the quality of care they provide today compared to a decade ago. Has anyone put a loved one into a state run facility such as a nursing home? Any idea about the quality of care?

For the time being I'm going to put her into 24 hour care, in a home like setting with her own room and such. This way, she's as comfortable as can be. It's $175 a day to keep her there, combine that with my bills, and I'll be broke eventually. I hope she recovers by then...what a spot to be in

Anyway, thought I'd ask here. I'm also on some elderly care boards awaiting answers and plan on speaking with a case worker at a nursing home and hopefully touring it on Monday. Would appreciate any input, thanks!

blackmonsters

Put her in a "Rehab and Nursing Center".

If she is broke then apply for medicaid, but if you apply for medicaid then do not
transfer any of her property out of her name. Medicaid will claim that property upon
her death, or they will deny coverage because the property was transferred.
If she is going to be long term then medicaid will take her social security check and
give her $60 a month spending money while still in the facility.

In other words, no one will inherit her home, but the medical treatment is free.

If within the last 5 years, her home was sold/transferred or large IRA cashed or
similar financial assets moved, then medicaid will deny coverage for the length of
time of treatment that will total in dollars the value of the sold or transferred assets.

If she is showing signs of dementia then you have no choice, she cannot stay at
home without care.

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V_RocKs

There are nursing homes that will take better care of her than they did for your great grandmother for certain. You have to do a ton of research looking them up. With today's social media I would be searching there first... Yelp, Facebook's search, etc...

Getting old sucks ass... What really sucks too is being an adult webmaster instead of a mainstream one. Then you could put her in front of a keyboard and she can do database entry types of things for you.

Yes, I am being serious here. When I am 70 you can put a keyboard in front of me and I will be making mad money even then... But today's elderly have really missed out on a grand opportunity to make plenty of cash and live better than their colleagues that did the 401K thing without retiring...

DVTimes

I put a pillow over my elderlys gran face.

i loved her, but she had a nice house.

i feel it saved her from any pain.

to be honest she was well, but i feel its better safe than sorry.

and now i live in a nice big house.

everyones a winner.

plus the insrance paid out well on her too.

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GetSCORECash

You have received some great advice already on this thread, my only suggestion would be to stick to the 24 hour care for as long as you can afford it.

Luckily I live in South Florida where there is a large amount of homes for the elderly at reasonable prices.

$175 a day is a lot of money, at least for down here.


Edit: you received some great advice from blackmonsters and V_RocKs.

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PR_Glen

nursing homes have come a long way.. too much competition these days for them to fuck around like they did in the past.. have to pay attention to these places still as I'm sure some are better than others, but I wouldn't abandon that option without looking at a few first either.

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MaDalton

i used to work for a year in a "24 hour care home" - and i have seen good, but also really evil nursing homes. ask the manager if you can speak with some of the people who live there when you look at one, if they refuse it's for a reason

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igio

Went through the same thing with my mother about 6 months ago. I decided to have her move in with me and get a nurse/housekeeper to come help her every day. It's cheaper, but now I have to live with my mother again! Still not sure if it was the right choice...

Klen

And that is why you treating us so nice

MaDalton

everyone gets what he deserves

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blackmonsters

It's a good choice since you have a helper coming over.
If she's in a home then you would have to drive over there a lot anyway.

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Vjo

I just went through three years of taking care of my mom. She also fell and had to go to assisted living eventually for two years. And then the nursing home for one year where she died.

I was through it all. I dont envy you. Has to be done (for our parents) by most of us all eventually.

Very tough experience. Plus all the money matters. Medicaid, ect. Asset transfer laws, tax filing, ect. Lots to know.

Unfortunatly all situations are unique and usually the P.O.A. (maybe you) only learns as he goes.

alias

Reported to Scotland Yard.

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Failed

Thank you all for your advice, it's very much appreciated! I have a week left before her insurance makes her leave the hospital, so I'm frantically searching for the best options and the best possible care.

She doesn't own any property and the case workers I've spoke with said similar, Black Monsters. Thank you for the details, you were more in depth. They seemed bothered and in a hurry. Our elderly do not receive the care and attention they should.

Thank you everyone else, you've given me an optimistic outlook for the weekend and I hope you all are right and there is much better care today for nursing home residents. This is what it will ultimately come to when I run out of money if she isn't well enough to bring home. But, she's my gram and took me in when no one else would at the age of 15, so I will gladly go broke to help her get home.

She's unable to come home even with a home nurse because of her mental state at the time being. The combination of surgery, stress, and a urinary infection caused some delirium which she's being treated for. The doctors say she could recover from that, but plan for the worst, which I'm forcing myself to do.

Seriously, thank you all for the input, it's a big help and boost in spirit!

porno jew

yes at one point the danger of living on their own is not worth it. and yes do your research and also don't let the paranoid media and chronic whiners let you think everything is evil out there. there are some amazing good people out there.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

My father was physically invalid for the last decade of his life, so my brother and I saw to it that our Dad was well taken care of in his twilight years.

You need to be constantly vigilant though, monitoring the situation to ensure he is not getting bedsores, that the treatment he receives when you are not there is the same as when you are visiting, etc.

The bureaucracy and red tape is maddening.

We finally had to have him declare bankruptcy and have his medicare and VA benefits deposited directly to the hospice, and everything was fine after that until he finally decided he no longer wished to be kept alive by life support, and he simply told my Uncle that it was time for him to get on his way, and to have the nurses remove the tubes keeping him alive.

I still miss him every single day, but I am thankful for the good care that he received, and I know that we made his final years more bearable.

Good luck with your situation. There are some excellent support networks for families too, so spend some time doing research and hopefully you can come up with a good alternative.

ADG

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Vjo

First of all, sounds like you will be going on Medicaid. You can't pay that stuff out of your pocket. You first become POA. Then you spend her money only.

When it is gone you apply for Medicaid who will then pay it all for whatever kind of care she is getting. Social workers will get involved. The County will take her social sec check and she will get to keep about $90 a month for other things. The rest of her soc sec will be sent by you (POA) to the home she is at.

That is how it works. Lots ahead of you.

The state will also look into her estate to see if any money was transfered in the last 2 years to family members. (5 years they can go legally) Once they start paying for her the money two years back is looked into to see if there were transfers to family members. If she ever had any real money.

If you never ask them (the County) for money (Medicaid), then they never ask to see the bank records. If you ask, then they ask to see past bank records, for sure.

porno jew

all the horror stories seem from the US. no wonder the US population hates their government so much. all of the taxes and none of the services. just remember other countries are simply more humane.

Vjo

Transfer laws began in 2006. Before that there were basicly no transfer laws.

If mom had 100K and took a fall. You could put the whole thing in your name. Now you pay out of it for 10 months (nursing homes can be up to 10,000 a month usually about 4-6 tho) and then ask to get Medicaid at month 11. So 100K is a lot of money but goes quick when they start paying out a month at a time.

This is why tell mom to spend her money on herself now or transfer it to a child long ahead of time (5 years plus) if you are smart. Good luck, most parents wont do this. But if you explain it maybe they will.

Instead all they scrimped to save sadly goes to medical bills and housing in nine out of 10 cases. If they had any real money to begin. If not, just apply for Medicaid or talk to a social worker if you havent yet.

Vjo

All nursing homes will seek to place her in assisted living which is maybe about $3000+ a month before nursing homes which are in high demand and are expensive for the County.

Hospitals will only keep them so long and then they send them to Nursing Homes. NH will only keep them so long and then they are sent to Assisted living.

Medicaid doesnt want to pay anything they dont have to.

They seldom start with a nursing home, usually assisted living first. Which is usually a very nice deal for the person. You the POA can choose which assisted living to put her in and in what town/city. They are kept in asst living for as long as poss. Usually then eventually they end up in a NH where many dont go more than a year. Some do tho.

Anyhow best wishes. Hope I could help.

garce

Your grandmother is not your responsibility. Abandon her and leave her die. Sue the state when she does. You have no obliation to provide care for your grandparents.

Its probably different in the States...

I took care of my mother-in-law from 2002 to mid-2007. She died mid-2010. I took care of my mother from late 2007 till her death in June 2010. During THAT time, I had two grown children in college, was paying my mother's bills and caring for my severely menatlly diabled sister.

My sister is still under my care. My kids are still in college. To ice the cake, my ex (the mother of my kids) is bipolar, and my "wife" (my mother-in-law's daughter) is an unrepentant cocaine addict.

It is IMPOSSIBILE to live a satisfying life while providing 24 hour a day care for people you are not responsible for. My children suffered because of the obligations I felt I had to fulfill.

It would have been so much easier to take my kids and move to a different city; into a different house. If I had the chance to do it over again, I would.

If you ever wonder why I'm so bitter, refer back to this post.

Vjo

One last thing, the guy who decides that one day he/she can not go home is the doctor at the hospital where she is admitted usually after a fall.

I begged my doc to give mom one more shot in her home after a bad fall in her basememt. The doc finally consented to one more try for mom. We had the phone system, home nurses stop by for baths ect. But she fell two months later and broke her hip. She did get two more months on her own tho which is what she desperately wanted at the time.

The doctor then of course decided along with the hospital's social workers that she should go to assisted living.

She never went home again. It was up to me to clean out and sell the house. And a million other things.

_Richard_

thank you sir

Vjo

This is generally true both ethicly and in practice.
Usually the children take care of their parents.

But there are all kinds of situations of course.

And many grandchildren are very close to their grandparents of course.

It is all pretty tough stuff.

_Richard_

move her in, post for nursing students looking for some care experience.. u should be able to pick someone up for 15 an hour

Vjo

I have to hand it to you. Very commendable. And fact is you could have had the county pay for her in assisted living from the get go. And to actually do the care work is crazy (but commendable). We are in diff countries so maybe things arent quite the same either with laws ect.

We all want to keep them home but assisted living is not that bad (like an apt with a maid service basicly) plus the County pays the tab.

I cant see where people are paying out of their own pockets. Granted some folks can afford to and that is great. I am referring more to when the children are of modest means.

Of course the parents are afraid of the NH word. But explain to them they will start in Assisted Living. And start ahead of that (5 years plus before you ever ask for govt assistance which is naturally very tricky but in retrospect is the thing to do) by turning all finances over to you their trusted child.

CyberHustler

BlackCrayon

we are having to look into some kind of assisted living for my mother in law. she is only in her late 60's but after several strokes her memory is so bad she can't even remember to eat let alone what time of day it is. sucks that it costs on average 1900 for a studio apartment and up to 4000 for a 1 bedroom. i don't know how people manage it. she only gets about 1300/month.

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Vjo

You did not hear that here. That might still be considered a transfer as well. I just hate to see folks life savings, $20K, $40K, $100K go down the tubes when they scrimped by buying the generic mac and cheese to save 20 cents.

But that's how it goes.

Vjo

Basicly (barring financial support from relatives) she will have to use her savings until it is gone and then turn the $1300 over to the County, go on Medicaid (here in the US) and she will be allowed to keep about $90 a month. Plus whatever her kind children will give her.

How that works. Best wishes.

Vjo

Not making light. My mom's Assisted Living was about $3600/month and it chewed up her fairly substantial (to be honest) savings. (and my inheritance that yes at one time I thought I had a shot at maybe some of it but got none of it) Her one bedroom apt was about $2000 and about $1600 for care/month.

$3600/month is $43,200 annually.

Welcome to the medical field, the only industry booming in the USA.

Leave it to your kids early folks. That is what the smart folks do.

Nembrionic

Failed

Thank you for sharing your similar stories with me and for even more information on what I can expect and what needs to be done. I've also left a message just a few minutes ago for my grandmother's attorney that wrote up her will, in hopes he can also provide some insight.

I've received more information and responses here than on the elderly care boards, you guys rock! I'm going to bed exhausted, but hopeful, goodnight!

zagoren

Put her down.

Abbie

After my Gramma took a fall in her bath tub over a year ago, we hired in-home health care. But as time went on, she progressively got worse. In May, after a small stroke, we opted to put her into a rehab / assisted center. It was hard, but on the other hand, we didn't want to see anything else happen to her...and the rehab really helped her improve.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

That is so true!

The man I considered my Dad, was my adopted stepfather, and he was from a much older generation than I (he lived to be 85). Anyway, Dad lived with my brother for ten years before we had to put him into assisted living following a stroke.

Over the years, despite good care, his health deteriorated to the point that he was bedridden. Nonetheless, he was still alert until he died, and could be hoisted into a racing stripes adorned wheelchair, and motor himself to the dining room and rec room to play dominoes, so all things considered, he considered himself generally fortunate and I think he was overall happy.

For decades, I lived several states away, and my brother ended up working all the way on the other coast, but we talked frequently by phone to Dad and visited as often as we could. Fortunately, my Uncle and his kids, who were all close to my Dad, dropped by and visited him on a more regular basis, so he knew he still had family that loved him until the end.

My Mother passed away a long time ago when I was young, so except for the years living with my brother, Dad spent most of his adult life alone, although he was happy that way, since he was always an independent self-reliant man's man that enjoyed spending as long as he wanted in his workshop creating various artworks and projects, and he could do the activities he loved whenever he wanted to, which while he could still get around unassisted consisted mostly of fishing and watching Mariners baseball games. That's the thing I think he missed most when it came time that he needed to settle into a group home with a 24/7 nursing staff to look after him.

Getting to your point, when my Dad was first put into the Nursing Home he had been quite ill and it didn't look like he had much longer to live. Therefore the NH staff assigned him to an area where terminal patients are looked after.

After he had been there nearly a year, and he had seen a half dozen or so roommates die, the staff asked him if he wanted to switch to a longterm patient care room, which he was quite grateful for, since he was able to be around people he could socialize better with, and some of whom he could build longterm friendships with (his biggest complaint was that several of the other patients seemed to complain about everything, all the time - kind of like GFY, j/k).

Dad loved to read biographies and history, and watch TV, mostly baseball and westerns, but although he had a strong engineering background, and loved science and technology (he was a builder and even an inventor of sorts), sadly to me, he just never got into computers, no matter how many times we would make him watch what we were doing with computers, which he enjoyed watching and he asked lots of questions about, and he knew how much easier it would have been to stay in touch. He remained until the end, a slipstick kind of guy (do young people even know the meaning of slipstick anymore - it sounds like a porn term, lol).

I think computers can improve the quality of life for elders, and I'm sure my generation, the first to grow up with PC's in their home, will be wired until we eternally log-off.

I'm absolutely certain that my Father was happier, his quality of life better, and his years alive extended, as a direct result of the care he received in assisted living and in a nursing home, with much of the costs covered by systems which he paid into, such as his years of service as a US Marine during WWII, and his whole life paying into social security, and donating time and money to charity.

I sincerely hope that our politicians, most of whom are quite affluent, will not turn their backs on the generations of hard-working taxpaying working-class people that were the backbone that built much of the infrastructure of this country, and whom paid into important and even vital social systems in good faith that they would be taken care of when they were no longer able to care for themselves.

I'm one of those wacky people that thinks that we can and should be doing more as a nation to create better systems for taking care of one another, and who believes that there is enough money to do that, to get able bodied people educated, trained, and fully employed, and to still allow people that want to make loads of money and make that their life's ambition, to get rich while also contributing to society.

I don't have parents or kids, and most of my family lives in other states, and even overseas (Japan), so I have had to already start making my plans for my later years which for some reason seems to get closer every year.

Well, all I can say is, it sounds like your grandmother is a good soul, taking you in at 15 and all, and she is lucky that you are looking after her now, when she needs you. I hope she gets better and enjoys her remaining days as comfortably as possible.

Edit: Oops...I didn't realize I made this post so long - sorry.

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v4 media

Why is it coming down to you sorting things, has she not got any children still alive, other grandchildren? You shouldn't have to pay for everything if you can't really afford it.

blackmonsters

So true!

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Failed

She has a son and a daughter. The son actually persuaded my gram to give him all her savings and he would pay her back within the year. Being the caring and generous person that she is, she gave it to him. He since moved and has never payed back a dime.

Her daughter, my mother, is going to try and help with the costs, but she doesn't have much money of her own to spare. Although, she's very generous as well and has actually offered to sell things in order to help.

The other grandsons and granddaughters only come to see her when they need money and have made themselves impossible to reach during this time and have not even visited her in the hospital.

I often felt guilty for not having a relationship with the family members I mentioned above (excluding my mother) because I thought they were selfish, shitty people I didn't need in my life. This whole situation has made that guilt disappear and reaffirmed what I believed.

Most importantly, my grandmother took me in as a teenager when I was a troublemaker and no one else wanted me. She always gave me a place to stay when I needed it, even a few years in my twenties when things weren't going great financially. So, I have a loyalty to this woman I can't break and must do anything I can to help her. She is the most important person in my life.

JFK

Its a sad situation, we kept my mother in her home till the last second, putting someone in an impersonal old age home, is pretty cold thing to do

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Sid70

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MaDalton

old (and sick) people need professional help - about food, cleaning, bedding, medicine etc.

As family you can be mostly an emotional help and do grunt work, but without proper knowledge you can screw things up.

some people have enough space to keep their family member at home and have nurses coming in every day for up to 16 hours, for others thats not possible and then a (good) nursing home can be appropriate.

not every case is the same

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kane

Over the past 3 years my mom has been in and out of a couple of nursing homes for a few different things. She had been in three different homes. One was good, one was bad and one was horrible.

There is a ton of great advice in this thread. One thing I might add is that there are a lot of places out there so make sure to visit several. Depending on where you live you can also call the social security office and ask if they have a disables persons advocate or elderly advocate that you can meet with. This is a person who's job it is to make sure that people get good care. They can help lead you to good homes and give you some good ideas for resources. The advocate where I live was amazing. I first met her when my mom was in the terrible home that kept screwing up her medicine. She came in, kicked ass and took names and got results.

When you visit a home here are a few things to check out: 1. the smell. It is going to have that antiseptic smell, but if it smells like shit and piss they might be understaffed and the place might be unclean. 2. the food. ask about the food. Visit the kitchen and see if it is clean and if it appears to be staffed by normal people not tweekers. 3. Ask if you can talk to some of the other residents. If they won't let you that is a warning sign. If they don't mind just ask around, ask how people feel about living there and so on. You might be shocked at how honest some of the people are. 4. staff. Ask about how many nurses/CNA/staff they have per person. If it seems like a huge ratio like 40 people per staff member they might be overworked and the care level could suffer.

Anyway, there are just a few things I picked up in dealing with some of this stuff. It is tough and I wish her and your family well.

chaze

Nursing homes are not as bad as TV makes them out. It's a good job and the people there know it so they take good care of the residents and the residents get to hang with other people there age and do fun stuff.

My gramps wants to go to one, we are just waiting a little longer.

CaptainHowdy

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v4 media

That's fair enough then, hope you can sort everything out.

My grandfather had a series of strokes and was in a nursing home for 6 years, luckily his house sale covered the costs. Although in the UK if you have less than $50k in assets the state do pay.

CurrentlySober

My dear old Gran (Who was 86) put HERSELF in a nursing home

She went to an 'Open Day' and requested she stayed there!

She died aged 98, happy as a pig in shit !

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Sid70

Genetically speaking you have a long shit road ahead of you, congrats!

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BlackCrayon

what are you supposed to do though? we are looking for more of just a place that will make her meals, give her meds as she can do most other things but right now where she is she just watches tv or sleeps all day. she can't drive and gets no social interaction besides my girlfriend (her daughter) going to see her a few times per week. she says she is always confused about what time of day or what day it is. seems like she is just waiting to die. our hope is by doing this she will get more social interaction and maybe make some friends, have a reason to get out of bed in the morning. however like i said we are not looking at a nursing home but rather an assisted living situation.

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