How Do You Increase Rebills? - GoFuckYourself.com

The Porn Nerd · 01-09-2013, 11:18 AM

Hey everyone!

There are so many differant strategies for retaining Members and increasing the number of monthly rebills yet I've been studying analytics from 2009-2012 and I'm seeing some interesting trends and would like some feedback.

(Now I'm also hoping affiliates will chime in here because signups are so hard to come by these days that I would think rebilling Members would be a high priority....)

While I have been in the Adult biz a relatively short time (2008-) and therefore cannot comment on the "Golden Age" of online porn (1995-2005). I have only my own stats and experience to compare things to. So here goes:

(Mister Peabody World launched Jan.15, 2009 with 4 paysites; we now have 32 so take that into consideration here.)

2009
Average rebill: 6 months
2010
Average rebill: 5 months
2011
Average rebill: 4 months
2012
Average rebill: 3 months

It's weird because as I add new sites (about 1 every 2 months or so) and bonus material (several HD feed companies) the rebills are going down, not up or even holding steady.

For my websites I have extremely unique and limited content (generally; some sites have hundreds of scenes etc) so I can understand someone going through all that MILF Mia has to offer (for example) then canceling as that site does not update any longer. But the bonus feeds update every single day and there's all the other sites in the network...

So what do YOU do to keep Members in 2013? Are you seeing the same trends? What are your strategies for the future?

KillerK · 01-09-2013, 11:22 AM

Baseball Bat method has always worked!

On a serious note

Why would people really pay? You can get everything for free ? Sorta like newspapers I guess, you can get all your news for free online now, so
why buy a paper?

Grapesoda · 01-09-2013, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Hey everyone!

There are so many differant strategies for retaining Members and increasing the number of monthly rebills yet I've been studying analytics from 2009-2012 and I'm seeing some interesting trends and would like some feedback.

(Now I'm also hoping affiliates will chime in here because signups are so hard to come by these days that I would think rebilling Members would be a high priority....)

While I have been in the Adult biz a relatively short time (2008-) and therefore cannot comment on the "Golden Age" of online porn (1995-2005). I have only my own stats and experience to compare things to. So here goes:

(Mister Peabody World launched Jan.15, 2009 with 4 paysites; we now have 32 so take that into consideration here.)

2009
Average rebill: 6 months
2010
Average rebill: 5 months
2011
Average rebill: 4 months
2012
Average rebill: 3 months

It's weird because as I add new sites (about 1 every 2 months or so) and bonus material (several HD feed companies) the rebills are going down, not up or even holding steady.

For my websites I have extremely unique and limited content (generally; some sites have hundreds of scenes etc) so I can understand someone going through all that MILF Mia has to offer (for example) then canceling as that site does not update any longer. But the bonus feeds update every single day and there's all the other sites in the network...

So what do YOU do to keep Members in 2013? Are you seeing the same trends? What are your strategies for the future?

communicate with your members

bean-aid · 01-09-2013, 11:24 AM

Those are incredible rebills, even though declining. Still good.

You can remove the ccbill price description in member welcome email and add some custom text about all the other stuff offered.

DamianJ · 01-09-2013, 11:25 AM

One word. Interaction.

Fat Panda · 01-09-2013, 11:32 AM

3 months for 2012 is pretty good

stever · 01-09-2013, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Hey everyone!

There are so many differant strategies for retaining Members and increasing the number of monthly rebills yet I've been studying analytics from 2009-2012 and I'm seeing some interesting trends and would like some feedback.

(Now I'm also hoping affiliates will chime in here because signups are so hard to come by these days that I would think rebilling Members would be a high priority....)

While I have been in the Adult biz a relatively short time (2008-) and therefore cannot comment on the "Golden Age" of online porn (1995-2005). I have only my own stats and experience to compare things to. So here goes:

(Mister Peabody World launched Jan.15, 2009 with 4 paysites; we now have 32 so take that into consideration here.)

2009
Average rebill: 6 months
2010
Average rebill: 5 months
2011
Average rebill: 4 months
2012
Average rebill: 3 months

It's weird because as I add new sites (about 1 every 2 months or so) and bonus material (several HD feed companies) the rebills are going down, not up or even holding steady.

For my websites I have extremely unique and limited content (generally; some sites have hundreds of scenes etc) so I can understand someone going through all that MILF Mia has to offer (for example) then canceling as that site does not update any longer. But the bonus feeds update every single day and there's all the other sites in the network...

So what do YOU do to keep Members in 2013? Are you seeing the same trends? What are your strategies for the future?

i love these kinds of threads so thanks for starting and sharing your numbers

you really need unique rare content they like + extra perks help to keep members rebilling long because these days members join so many sites and with so much stuff out there they really dont care much to keep a membership like they used to
many times they prefer joining to download and cancel and then rejoin a few months later to catch up on what they missed

to help with rebills i tried streaming only on some new sites where members cannot download anything
sure it may piss off a few but those that really like the content rebill longer
also it will protect you from piracy at the same time

Roald · 01-09-2013, 11:51 AM

These days I prefer PPS over revshare for new programs. I dont trust anyone with my rebills anymore and I rather cash out quick than rely on a program owner who 1 day might say fuck it and stop paying.

Webmaster Advertising · 01-09-2013, 11:58 AM

Can I ask, the content you have in the site, are you literally just 'adding' new content or do you take some of your existing scenes and 'rotate' them through?

We found that rotating content, not just adding new scenes/sets works well, it basically allows you to make the member think they are getting more than they actually are, after all, if your highest rebill length on average is 6 months, why not only have 6 months worth of content in the members area and rotate whatever you have 'extra' through to make it seem like you are adding more?

There is a fine line when it comes to content in members area and updating, if you continually add content to a site that has a 6 month retention rate, you're basically throwing good money away, because you ONLY actually need 6 months worth of updates. If that makes sense?

The Porn Nerd · 01-09-2013, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stever

i love these kinds of threads so thanks for starting and sharing your numbers

you really need unique rare content they like + extra perks help to keep members rebilling long because these days members join so many sites and with so much stuff out there they really dont care much to keep a membership like they used to
many times they prefer joining to download and cancel and then rejoin a few months later to catch up on what they missed

to help with rebills i tried streaming only on some new sites where members cannot download anything
sure it may piss off a few but those that really like the content rebill longer
also it will protect you from piracy at the same time

Joining and canceling, then re-joining is definitely a pattern I see more of these days.
And you're right, there are SO MANY choices out there I guess I should be happy for any rebills. LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald

These days I prefer PPS over revshare for new programs. I dont trust anyone with my rebills anymore and I rather cash out quick than rely on a program owner who 1 day might say fuck it and stop paying.

Ahh, this explains why FreeOnes doesn't get back to me on more ways to promote my sites even tho you're already an affiliate. (And no matter how much I kiss your sweet European butt, too.)
Bummer for CCBill programs, eh?

Webmaster Advertising · 01-09-2013, 12:02 PM

Rebills are good, but R.O.I is better in essence is what I'm saying.

30 sets for example, gives you 7 months of [weekly] updates.

Take 4 of those sets and put them in a 'reserve'.

Any time an update happens, take the first set in the members area and throw that into the reserve, whilst taking the first set in the 'reserve' and put it into the members area.

signupdamnit · 01-09-2013, 12:21 PM

Affiliate perspective here.

I would say the two main ones besides the obvious "update regularly" are:

1. Don't have deceptive cross sales and upsells. My worst converters (for rebills) have these as well as more refunds and chargebacks. I had one sponsor who had horrible rebuills and CB ratios but they quit with the BS and now they are getting back to the normal (or the new normal anyway). Stay away from prechecked or deceptive one-click upgrades. When your surfers see these things I theorize that it puts them on the defensive and makes them more apt to cancel (or CB when they get hit).

2. Keep your content off the pirate sites. If members see they can get it all for free one day after you publish it then why should they pay? Try to turn would be pirates into long term customers. Let them spend hours looking for a certain scene only to give up and decide to join! And btw don't give tubes (especially the ones with a history of piracy) more than you give your affiliates. That is saying "Fuck you!" to them.

Back in the old days rebills were great and would go on for 3 - 5 years routinely with the old AVS (adult verification system) systems. It made one's income build and build. Part of that was the lack of free content and the lack of it all being in one place.

crazydollars · 01-09-2013, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

It's weird because as I add new sites (about 1 every 2 months or so) and bonus material (several HD feed companies)

which companies do you use for bonus feeds?

Struggle4Bucks · 01-09-2013, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

Can I ask, the content you have in the site, are you literally just 'adding' new content or do you take some of your existing scenes and 'rotate' them through?

We found that rotating content, not just adding new scenes/sets works well, it basically allows you to make the member think they are getting more than they actually are, after all, if your highest rebill length on average is 6 months, why not only have 6 months worth of content in the members area and rotate whatever you have 'extra' through to make it seem like you are adding more?

There is a fine line when it comes to content in members area and updating, if you continually add content to a site that has a 6 month retention rate, you're basically throwing good money away, because you ONLY actually need 6 months worth of updates. If that makes sense?

A large percentage of my members will sign up again after being away for a few months; some after 1,5 years... so if they come back to check the site again they don't want to see stuff they allready have seen... i don't know about MrPeabody's sites and returning members.... but it is a thing to think about.

discounts.xxx · 01-09-2013, 12:44 PM

start a feedback button or option from ur members to know what you could add .. Even do a members area vote or poll... Whatever it takes to keep them engaged

Penny24Seven · 01-09-2013, 12:50 PM

I put polls up in the members area and let them pick everything from the next update to what videos are made, what changes or stays the same, I let them run the site, afterall why would you want anything that the members do not want or ask for? Even the ideas for videos are picked by them. They can send it outfits/clothes pretty much anything they want.

Roald · 01-09-2013, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Ahh, this explains why FreeOnes doesn't get back to me on more ways to promote my sites even tho you're already an affiliate. (And no matter how much I kiss your sweet European butt, too.)
Bummer for CCBill programs, eh?

Uhm no, ccbill is ok by me. Besides that (I think) I always reply so no idea who you are trying to contact?

Far-L · 01-09-2013, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

One word. Interaction.

One word reply. Agree.

JamesM · 01-09-2013, 08:02 PM

Regular updates in members area.

Webmaster Advertising · 01-09-2013, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesM

Regular updates in members area.

You'd actually be surprised just how little that actually matters.

Sometimes members will stay with a site because they simply can't find the content anywhere else.

fuzebox · 01-09-2013, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

Can I ask, the content you have in the site, are you literally just 'adding' new content or do you take some of your existing scenes and 'rotate' them through?

Sssshhhhh

JamesM · 01-09-2013, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

You'd actually be surprised just how little that actually matters.

Sometimes members will stay with a site because they simply can't find the content anywhere else.

I agree, for exclusive content.

JamesM · 01-09-2013, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

Can I ask, the content you have in the site, are you literally just 'adding' new content or do you take some of your existing scenes and 'rotate' them through?

We found that rotating content, not just adding new scenes/sets works well, it basically allows you to make the member think they are getting more than they actually are, after all, if your highest rebill length on average is 6 months, why not only have 6 months worth of content in the members area and rotate whatever you have 'extra' through to make it seem like you are adding more?

There is a fine line when it comes to content in members area and updating, if you continually add content to a site that has a 6 month retention rate, you're basically throwing good money away, because you ONLY actually need 6 months worth of updates. If that makes sense?

I read in old threads, Mr. Paul Markham used to rotate the content and members didnt like it, its like fooling them.

The Porn Nerd · 01-09-2013, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

Rebills are good, but R.O.I is better in essence is what I'm saying.

30 sets for example, gives you 7 months of [weekly] updates.

Take 4 of those sets and put them in a 'reserve'.

Any time an update happens, take the first set in the members area and throw that into the reserve, whilst taking the first set in the 'reserve' and put it into the members area.

When I had less paysites and most of them were "amateur solo girls" I did this and it was indeed successful! Now that I have so many sites I think need to hire someone to do this or find a good script that could do it automatically.......awesome input tho and thanks for reminding me (us?) on the value of this strategy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Affiliate perspective here.

I would say the two main ones besides the obvious "update regularly" are:

1. Don't have deceptive cross sales and upsells. My worst converters (for rebills) have these as well as more refunds and chargebacks. I had one sponsor who had horrible rebuills and CB ratios but they quit with the BS and now they are getting back to the normal (or the new normal anyway). Stay away from prechecked or deceptive one-click upgrades. When your surfers see these things I theorize that it puts them on the defensive and makes them more apt to cancel (or CB when they get hit).

2. Keep your content off the pirate sites. If members see they can get it all for free one day after you publish it then why should they pay? Try to turn would be pirates into long term customers. Let them spend hours looking for a certain scene only to give up and decide to join! And btw don't give tubes (especially the ones with a history of piracy) more than you give your affiliates. That is saying "Fuck you!" to them.

Back in the old days rebills were great and would go on for 3 - 5 years routinely with the old AVS (adult verification system) systems. It made one's income build and build. Part of that was the lack of free content and the lack of it all being in one place.

More great points! I don't do upsells and cross-sells are CCBill programs only (mostly friends of mine LOL plus a few sites I know convert well for others).

Piracy is a cat-and-mouse game, as you know, but I do use content removal companies.
And wouldn't rebills of 3 YEARS be oh so amazing today?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks

A large percentage of my members will sign up again after being away for a few months; some after 1,5 years... so if they come back to check the site again they don't want to see stuff they allready have seen... i don't know about MrPeabody's sites and returning members.... but it is a thing to think about.

This ties in with the 'rotate your content' strategy. I see this pattern too, Members canceling then re-joining months (or even years) later. Gotta start a-rotatin'.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald

Uhm no, ccbill is ok by me. Besides that (I think) I always reply so no idea who you are trying to contact?

Ahh you know I love Mr. Roald!! Your avatar is so colorful...

But I contacted Petra on December 17 of last year after checking traffic stats. I get hardly anything from FreeOnes so I'm not even sure how much (if any) business FreeOnes is doing with PeabodyCash websites. I know you guys are an affiliate and I know I have a few of the best-converting websites anywhere so I was looking to see how we could work together more.

Maybe I contacted the wrong person out of the blue like that and/or it was the Holidays. I always blame myself first. Haha!!

Anyway, maybe you and I can ICQ or something equally dirty soon.

Webmaster Advertising · 01-09-2013, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesM

I read in old threads, Mr. Paul Markham used to rotate the content and members didnt like it, its like fooling them.

Members typically don't like it when they join via magic join links ;)

But, if you know you have a 6 month retention rate on average, even if you also know some members will join again in a year or so, simply having enough content to fulfill a 6 month time-frame (to be on the safe side id say 8 months) the benefits of having the majority of members retain for 6 months vs. losing a member who has already joined and come back and cancels, is a no brainer, id rather lose a months rebill from a few members each year than have to constantly throw a few hundred bucks into the site month after month.

Its a number game ultimately, and is one that has been prevalent in the industry since the inception of the PPS business model. How many exclusive PPS multi-site programs do you think 'actually' add fresh, exclusive content to their members area every month?

Webmaster Advertising · 01-09-2013, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

When I had less paysites and most of them were "amateur solo girls" I did this and it was indeed successful! Now that I have so many sites I think need to hire someone to do this or find a good script that could do it automatically.......awesome input tho and thanks for reminding me (us?) on the value of this strategy.

If you want something custom, to your exact needs like we use, feel free to shoot me an email [contact @ pixelsquaredesigns.com]

The Porn Nerd · 01-09-2013, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

If you want something custom, to your exact needs like we use, feel free to shoot me an email [contact @ pixelsquaredesigns.com]

Thanks, I will do that this week.

Voodoo · 01-10-2013, 12:00 AM

Value value value

But, truth be told, in this economy, I think your price is a little on the high-side.

For the best rebills, a dollar amount that isn't worth thinking about will rebill indefinitely.

I'll take $1.00/mo from everyone on the planet over $50/mo from 100,000, any day.

bean-aid · 01-10-2013, 12:05 AM

The answer to your question in part lies in the post left by a guy named beaner... earlier.

The trick is to not get them to cancel after the first 15 minutes of being a member.

Do you really think that offering all this wonderful new content each and every day really matters? Bottom line, stop people from immediately cancelling and you just increased your bottom line.

PEOPLE FORGET TO CANCEL!

Roald · 01-10-2013, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Ahh you know I love Mr. Roald!! Your avatar is so colorful...

But I contacted Petra on December 17 of last year after checking traffic stats. I get hardly anything from FreeOnes so I'm not even sure how much (if any) business FreeOnes is doing with PeabodyCash websites. I know you guys are an affiliate and I know I have a few of the best-converting websites anywhere so I was looking to see how we could work together more.

Maybe I contacted the wrong person out of the blue like that and/or it was the Holidays. I always blame myself first. Haha!!

Anyway, maybe you and I can ICQ or something equally dirty soon.

Drop me a line and lets see what we can do, roald @T freeones. com

Joshua G · 01-10-2013, 01:53 AM

one prominent guy here (cough cough, the claudia marie producer) offers a hi res stream, with a lo res download, goal being to decrease piracy, & increase retention. dont know how thats working out though. but i think claudia marie does interactive things as well so i would guess his retention is better then just the standard download model.

rastan · 01-10-2013, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian837

I put polls up in the members area and let them pick everything from the next update to what videos are made, what changes or stays the same, I let them run the site, afterall why would you want anything that the members do not want or ask for? Even the ideas for videos are picked by them. They can send it outfits/clothes pretty much anything they want.

Actually, thats a pretty smart idea....

Umm.. mind if I `borrow` it?

The Porn Nerd · 01-10-2013, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald

Drop me a line and lets see what we can do, roald @T freeones. com

Sounds like a plan. Will send you one later today.

shauna1978 · 01-10-2013, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Hey everyone!

There are so many differant strategies for retaining Members and increasing the number of monthly rebills yet I've been studying analytics from 2009-2012 and I'm seeing some interesting trends and would like some feedback.

(Now I'm also hoping affiliates will chime in here because signups are so hard to come by these days that I would think rebilling Members would be a high priority....)

While I have been in the Adult biz a relatively short time (2008-) and therefore cannot comment on the "Golden Age" of online porn (1995-2005). I have only my own stats and experience to compare things to. So here goes:

(Mister Peabody World launched Jan.15, 2009 with 4 paysites; we now have 32 so take that into consideration here.)

2009
Average rebill: 6 months
2010
Average rebill: 5 months
2011
Average rebill: 4 months
2012
Average rebill: 3 months

It's weird because as I add new sites (about 1 every 2 months or so) and bonus material (several HD feed companies) the rebills are going down, not up or even holding steady.

For my websites I have extremely unique and limited content (generally; some sites have hundreds of scenes etc) so I can understand someone going through all that MILF Mia has to offer (for example) then canceling as that site does not update any longer. But the bonus feeds update every single day and there's all the other sites in the network...

So what do YOU do to keep Members in 2013? Are you seeing the same trends? What are your strategies for the future?

The best thing that you can do for your customer retention is to offer exemplary customer service. There is so much competition out there these days, and if customers feel that they will not be able to turn to you to resolve their questions and concerns, they will move on to someone who will.

We live in a world of instant gratification, so setting up a ticket system, and promising your customers that they will receive a response within 24 hours isn't enough either. While they're waiting for you to respond, they're going to surf around for sites that offer similar content, and you'll lose them. Offer them a means of contact where they can connect with a live person instantly, and make it highly visible on your website. Live Chat usually works really well.

I'd be more than happy to discuss this with you further. You can email me at [email protected], or skype me at ass.shauna

The Ghost · 01-10-2013, 10:52 AM

The right way:
Mentioned a few times the more updates of what the member actually joined for will keep them around. At least as long as they are interested in the content. True fans are gold. And by updates I don't mean filler, but the real updates they joined to see. It's a ton more work but have seen positive results with our LB sites by increasing updates.

The bad:
Trick them with fake cancellation pages or deceptively named charges on their card like "ATM Fee" or "Petrol Fuel". A few programs have been outed for that before.

DWB · 01-10-2013, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

I'll take $1.00/mo from everyone on the planet....

Wouldn't that be nice.

The Porn Nerd · 01-10-2013, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Wouldn't that be nice.

Yes, then I would have........six BILLION dollars!!! Brahahahahahahaha!

icymelon · 01-10-2013, 11:06 AM

in 2012 the avg sale from ccbill sites generated $28 for us. These are all non PPS sites. So the point is some sites are seeing higher avg than 3 months. while that might be the avg some sites have almost 0 rebills. From an affiliates perspective it's tough to say because I have not personally seen the inside members area. I have to believe consistent updates is the key. But also as an affiliate that helps market the site and increases the quality of the tools. So those updates I believe are critical.
I agree with the PPS preference. I much rather push a PPS and let the program worry rebills. It's obvious based on this data that a program paying out $35 PPS is going to make a ton more money in the long run if they have a ton of content. I could go on a rant about the value of a sale to a site but to answer the question I believe new updates and not plug in feeds is the solution. Having feeds is just a waste of money.

Webmaster Advertising · 01-10-2013, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icymelon

From an affiliates perspective it's tough to say because I have not personally seen the inside members area.

Why the heck not? That is typically one of the first things I ask from a site owner, if they wont let me see the members area, even for an hour, they don't get promoted, as in my mind, they are hiding 'something'.

I think that is a big reason many in the industry don't actually understand what makes a site rebill, they throw links up to all their sponsor offerings without actually taking a few minutes to check out the members areas on those sites.

Any program with a good members area, for the most part isn't going to mind showing an affiliate what is inside their sites, unless they are stuffed with content from the 80's, upsells, content feeds that make no sense being there and just look like shit overall.

The Porn Nerd · 01-10-2013, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

Why the heck not? That is typically one of the first things I ask from a site owner, if they wont let me see the members area, even for an hour, they don't get promoted, as in my mind, they are hiding 'something'.

I think that is a big reason many in the industry don't actually understand what makes a site rebill, they throw links up to all their sponsor offerings without actually taking a few minutes to check out the members areas on those sites.

Any program with a good members area, for the most part isn't going to mind showing an affiliate what is inside their sites, unless they are stuffed with content from the 80's, upsells, content feeds that make no sense being there and just look like shit overall.

This is an excellent point! I allow access to my Members Areas for affiliates who ask but 99.9% never ask. LOL

My situation is a bit differant, too, in this way: being "Mister Peabody" and marketing my sites as "mine" (even tho the content is from others) makes joining my network an almost personal thing. So if a site has only 20 videos on it, well, it's sort of understandable cause it's just 1 of 32 sites, and poor ol' Mister Peabody is building this shit himself, one at a time, so he's doing his best.....LOL

I set it up that way so I wouldn't have Members constantly complaining about this or that (even tho some do and always will). I'm NOT a giant porn company, with thousands of scenes updated thrice daily (yes, i said "thrice"). LOL So I gotta spin the uniqueness angle.

pornguy · 01-10-2013, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

Why the heck not? That is typically one of the first things I ask from a site owner, if they wont let me see the members area, even for an hour, they don't get promoted, as in my mind, they are hiding 'something'.

I think that is a big reason many in the industry don't actually understand what makes a site rebill, they throw links up to all their sponsor offerings without actually taking a few minutes to check out the members areas on those sites.

Any program with a good members area, for the most part isn't going to mind showing an affiliate what is inside their sites, unless they are stuffed with content from the 80's, upsells, content feeds that make no sense being there and just look like shit overall.

Reason number 1 I don't allow it.

Who are you??

That's right. I don't know you and most others around here don't either really know you so I don't hand out passes.

Do you know how many of the big pirate site owners post here on GFY? Several have been outed already and I'm sure there are many more.

Each person/company can run their business any way that they like but I caution people about handing out passes for any reason.

If you don't like it, you don't promote my sites and we all move on with our day. Its simple really.

I don't mean you Webmaster Advertising just using that as a general term.

Webmaster Advertising · 01-10-2013, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornguy

If you don't like it, you don't promote my sites and we all move on with our day. Its simple really.

I don't mean you Webmaster Advertising just using that as a general term.

I agree and honestly, that is exactly what I do, its nothing bad against any specific program, it's business. More people should do that and not worry about how much money they're going to be making.

I know typically (yes there are fluctuations out of my control) what each of the sponsor programs I promote will make me on average, as well as my own sites, each month.

Oh and as Beaner mentioned above, customers DO forget to cancel, for whatever reason, if you can make them forget and not cancel within the first 2 weeks of their membership, then you can be pretty certain they'll rebill at least once, maybe twice more.

If you hit them for a multi-month membership and they don't cancel right away, you've struck retention gold... I have actively rebilling members on a site I built over 2 years ago still rebilling each month, even though they have never been inside the members area after the first week of purchase.

Likewise on mobile sites, if you get someone to join via their cell phone (meaning that is how they check their email) if they don't cancel right away, you have them for at least 3 months, longer potentially.

Working in adult is all a numbers game, you have to have the metrics available to you in order to understand that, I believe that is a problem a lot of affiliates and some site owners have though, they only pay attention to their ratios and not the important stats that actually matter, you can't deposit a ratio.

The Porn Nerd · 01-10-2013, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaner

Those are incredible rebills, even though declining. Still good.

You can remove the ccbill price description in member welcome email and add some custom text about all the other stuff offered.

Sorry i missed this one. Awesome advice Beaner!!
But can I do it myself manually or do I need to get our good friends and collegues over at CCBill to do it for me?

bean-aid · 01-10-2013, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Sorry i missed this one. Awesome advice Beaner!!
But can I do it myself manually or do I need to get our good friends and collegues over at CCBill to do it for me?

You can do it. Go to emails, customize, remove the recurring price description.

No reason to beat the customer over the head numerous times they are getting charged this, and will rebill at that, in however many days. Enough is enough.

They need to know login info. and whatever else YOU want to tell them.

trevesty · 01-10-2013, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

communicate with your members

Your question has been answered.

Far-L · 01-10-2013, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rastan

Actually, thats a pretty smart idea....

Umm.. mind if I `borrow` it?

We have been doing that for over a decade. I can certainly say that it works.

andykay · 01-10-2013, 04:36 PM

Getting anyone to sign up and pay AT ALL for a porn site is an accomplishment these days. Let alone having them rebill.

I quit the biz around the time you joined, 2008/2009. I still read forums and keep up on stuff, but as you said, the 'golden age' is over. The signups died off dramatically in the last half of the first decade of the 2000's.

In my case i went from earning six figures steadily for 8 years straight, to barely making it into 5 figures the final year i ran my sites. And i did have a lot of exclusive content and steady updates. But as others have said, nothing beats free.

Several things came into play in the mid 2000's to account for the dropoffs. More widespread high speed internet meant more people could join sites and download all of their content in a matter of days, then quit.

Torrent sites became more popular, as well as blogs with links to direct downloads of pirated scenes etc.. and more people educated themselves on how to use them and realized they didn't have to pay. So really to get any rebills is a feat in and of itself as that means you had a signup to begin with.. lol

Far-L · 01-10-2013, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icymelon

in 2012 the avg sale from ccbill sites generated $28 for us. These are all non PPS sites. So the point is some sites are seeing higher avg than 3 months. while that might be the avg some sites have almost 0 rebills. From an affiliates perspective it's tough to say because I have not personally seen the inside members area. I have to believe consistent updates is the key. But also as an affiliate that helps market the site and increases the quality of the tools. So those updates I believe are critical.
I agree with the PPS preference. I much rather push a PPS and let the program worry rebills. It's obvious based on this data that a program paying out $35 PPS is going to make a ton more money in the long run if they have a ton of content. I could go on a rant about the value of a sale to a site but to answer the question I believe new updates and not plug in feeds is the solution. Having feeds is just a waste of money.

Having feeds did increase retention for us but it also increased support headaches so there is certainly a trade-off going on there; however, keeping the members happy is the name of the game so we still have them.

The Porn Nerd · 01-10-2013, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

Having feeds did increase retention for us but it also increased support headaches so there is certainly a trade-off going on there; however, keeping the members happy is the name of the game so we still have them.

I saw a dramatic increase when I instituted feeds on the advice of a webmaster here who had done the same and saw the same increase in rebills. These feeds update every dingle day, and have mass libraries of content in all niches. In fact, when I myself login to any of my Members Areas I'm blown away by all the stuff I haven't seen yet - and they're my sites! LOL

So I keep the feeds. They're maybe a couple hundred dollars a week, all total, so it's worth it when we're talking hundreds of Members rebilling.

epitome · 01-10-2013, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

Can I ask, the content you have in the site, are you literally just 'adding' new content or do you take some of your existing scenes and 'rotate' them through?

We found that rotating content, not just adding new scenes/sets works well, it basically allows you to make the member think they are getting more than they actually are, after all, if your highest rebill length on average is 6 months, why not only have 6 months worth of content in the members area and rotate whatever you have 'extra' through to make it seem like you are adding more?

There is a fine line when it comes to content in members area and updating, if you continually add content to a site that has a 6 month retention rate, you're basically throwing good money away, because you ONLY actually need 6 months worth of updates. If that makes sense?

If you do things right, more people are going to signup and stay if you have 700+ exclusive scenes (like both our Gay Life Network & Blake Mason do now) than if we had say only 48 scenes to last six months (as there are two updates per week). People love digging through a huge archive of videos as much as they look forward to the latest update.

01-09-2013, 11:18 AM	#1
The Porn Nerd Living The Dream Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Inside a Monitor Posts: 19,572	How Do You Increase Rebills? Hey everyone! There are so many differant strategies for retaining Members and increasing the number of monthly rebills yet I've been studying analytics from 2009-2012 and I'm seeing some interesting trends and would like some feedback. (Now I'm also hoping affiliates will chime in here because signups are so hard to come by these days that I would think rebilling Members would be a high priority....) While I have been in the Adult biz a relatively short time (2008-) and therefore cannot comment on the "Golden Age" of online porn (1995-2005). I have only my own stats and experience to compare things to. So here goes: (Mister Peabody World launched Jan.15, 2009 with 4 paysites; we now have 32 so take that into consideration here.) 2009 Average rebill: 6 months 2010 Average rebill: 5 months 2011 Average rebill: 4 months 2012 Average rebill: 3 months It's weird because as I add new sites (about 1 every 2 months or so) and bonus material (several HD feed companies) the rebills are going down, not up or even holding steady. For my websites I have extremely unique and limited content (generally; some sites have hundreds of scenes etc) so I can understand someone going through all that MILF Mia has to offer (for example) then canceling as that site does not update any longer. But the bonus feeds update every single day and there's all the other sites in the network... So what do YOU do to keep Members in 2013? Are you seeing the same trends? What are your strategies for the future? __________________ My Affiliate Programs: Porn Nerd Cash \| Porn Showcase \| Aggressive Gold Over 90 paysites to promote! Now on Teams: peabodymedia

01-09-2013, 11:22 AM	#2
KillerK Confirmed User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,406	Baseball Bat method has always worked! On a serious note Why would people really pay? You can get everything for free ? Sorta like newspapers I guess, you can get all your news for free online now, so why buy a paper? Last edited by KillerK; 01-09-2013 at 11:24 AM..

01-09-2013, 11:51 AM	#8
Roald SecretFriends.com Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: IMC Headquarters Posts: 27,884	These days I prefer PPS over revshare for new programs. I dont trust anyone with my rebills anymore and I rather cash out quick than rely on a program owner who 1 day might say fuck it and stop paying. __________________ WE ARE BUYING PAY SITES! CONTACT ME ClubSweethearts \| ManUpFilms \| SinfulXXX \| HOT * AdultPrime * HOT Paying webmasters since 1996! Contact: r.riepen @ sansylgroup.com \| telegram: roaldr

01-09-2013, 12:21 PM	#12
signupdamnit Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,697	Affiliate perspective here. I would say the two main ones besides the obvious "update regularly" are: 1. Don't have deceptive cross sales and upsells. My worst converters (for rebills) have these as well as more refunds and chargebacks. I had one sponsor who had horrible rebuills and CB ratios but they quit with the BS and now they are getting back to the normal (or the new normal anyway). Stay away from prechecked or deceptive one-click upgrades. When your surfers see these things I theorize that it puts them on the defensive and makes them more apt to cancel (or CB when they get hit). 2. Keep your content off the pirate sites. If members see they can get it all for free one day after you publish it then why should they pay? Try to turn would be pirates into long term customers. Let them spend hours looking for a certain scene only to give up and decide to join! And btw don't give tubes (especially the ones with a history of piracy) more than you give your affiliates. That is saying "Fuck you!" to them. Back in the old days rebills were great and would go on for 3 - 5 years routinely with the old AVS (adult verification system) systems. It made one's income build and build. Part of that was the lack of free content and the lack of it all being in one place. __________________ You don't like my posts? Put me on ignore or fuck right off. I'll say what I want. Last edited by signupdamnit; 01-09-2013 at 12:27 PM..

01-09-2013, 12:44 PM	#15
discounts.xxx Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2012 Location: Over the Rainbow Posts: 83	start a feedback button or option from ur members to know what you could add .. Even do a members area vote or poll... Whatever it takes to keep them engaged __________________ Skype: guanche01 www.discountsxxx.com [email protected]

01-09-2013, 11:24 AM	#4
bean-aid So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: the land of woke sleuths Posts: 16,493	Those are incredible rebills, even though declining. Still good. You can remove the ccbill price description in member welcome email and add some custom text about all the other stuff offered.

01-09-2013, 11:25 AM	#5
DamianJ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land Posts: 15,808	One word. Interaction.

01-09-2013, 11:32 AM	#6
Fat Panda Porn is Dead. Move along. Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 13,295	3 months for 2012 is pretty good

01-09-2013, 11:58 AM	#9
Webmaster Advertising So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,360	Can I ask, the content you have in the site, are you literally just 'adding' new content or do you take some of your existing scenes and 'rotate' them through? We found that rotating content, not just adding new scenes/sets works well, it basically allows you to make the member think they are getting more than they actually are, after all, if your highest rebill length on average is 6 months, why not only have 6 months worth of content in the members area and rotate whatever you have 'extra' through to make it seem like you are adding more? There is a fine line when it comes to content in members area and updating, if you continually add content to a site that has a 6 month retention rate, you're basically throwing good money away, because you ONLY actually need 6 months worth of updates. If that makes sense?

01-09-2013, 12:02 PM	#11
Webmaster Advertising So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,360	Rebills are good, but R.O.I is better in essence is what I'm saying. 30 sets for example, gives you 7 months of [weekly] updates. Take 4 of those sets and put them in a 'reserve'. Any time an update happens, take the first set in the members area and throw that into the reserve, whilst taking the first set in the 'reserve' and put it into the members area.

01-09-2013, 12:50 PM	#16
Penny24Seven So Fucking What Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Posts: 6,287	I put polls up in the members area and let them pick everything from the next update to what videos are made, what changes or stays the same, I let them run the site, afterall why would you want anything that the members do not want or ask for? Even the ideas for videos are picked by them. They can send it outfits/clothes pretty much anything they want. __________________ Our site is coming soon. It will be one of the best ever! I know so. Brian and Penny

01-09-2013, 08:02 PM	#19
JamesM Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 732	Regular updates in members area. __________________ Ex GF Films \| Grab Dollars Up To 80% Rev-Share \| 255 Day Cookie \| Legal Content \| Variety of Promo Tools \| CCBill Program \| GF Niche james[at]grabdollars[dot]com \| ICQ::611-99-zero-zero-20

01-10-2013, 12:00 AM	#28
Voodoo ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Porn Valley, CA Posts: 10,590	Value value value But, truth be told, in this economy, I think your price is a little on the high-side. For the best rebills, a dollar amount that isn't worth thinking about will rebill indefinitely. I'll take $1.00/mo from everyone on the planet over $50/mo from 100,000, any day. __________________ "I'm selflessly supporting the common good, but only coincidentally looking out for No.1."

01-10-2013, 12:05 AM	#29
bean-aid So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: the land of woke sleuths Posts: 16,493	The answer to your question in part lies in the post left by a guy named beaner... earlier. The trick is to not get them to cancel after the first 15 minutes of being a member. Do you really think that offering all this wonderful new content each and every day really matters? Bottom line, stop people from immediately cancelling and you just increased your bottom line. PEOPLE FORGET TO CANCEL!

01-10-2013, 01:53 AM	#31
Joshua G dumb libs love censorship Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8,198	one prominent guy here (cough cough, the claudia marie producer) offers a hi res stream, with a lo res download, goal being to decrease piracy, & increase retention. dont know how thats working out though. but i think claudia marie does interactive things as well so i would guess his retention is better then just the standard download model. Last edited by Joshua G; 01-10-2013 at 01:54 AM..

01-10-2013, 10:52 AM	#35
The Ghost IslandDollars.com Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Icq: 176176 Posts: 12,188	The right way: Mentioned a few times the more updates of what the member actually joined for will keep them around. At least as long as they are interested in the content. True fans are gold. And by updates I don't mean filler, but the real updates they joined to see. It's a ton more work but have seen positive results with our LB sites by increasing updates. The bad: Trick them with fake cancellation pages or deceptively named charges on their card like "ATM Fee" or "Petrol Fuel". A few programs have been outed for that before. __________________ ISLAND DOLLARS 1000's of Exclusive TS scenes / Constant Updates Best TS Network your surfers will ever join

01-10-2013, 11:06 AM	#38
icymelon Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 3,220	in 2012 the avg sale from ccbill sites generated $28 for us. These are all non PPS sites. So the point is some sites are seeing higher avg than 3 months. while that might be the avg some sites have almost 0 rebills. From an affiliates perspective it's tough to say because I have not personally seen the inside members area. I have to believe consistent updates is the key. But also as an affiliate that helps market the site and increases the quality of the tools. So those updates I believe are critical. I agree with the PPS preference. I much rather push a PPS and let the program worry rebills. It's obvious based on this data that a program paying out $35 PPS is going to make a ton more money in the long run if they have a ton of content. I could go on a rant about the value of a sale to a site but to answer the question I believe new updates and not plug in feeds is the solution. Having feeds is just a waste of money. __________________ Network Of Adult Blogs With Hardlink Rentals Available

01-10-2013, 04:36 PM	#47
andykay Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 17	Getting anyone to sign up and pay AT ALL for a porn site is an accomplishment these days. Let alone having them rebill. I quit the biz around the time you joined, 2008/2009. I still read forums and keep up on stuff, but as you said, the 'golden age' is over. The signups died off dramatically in the last half of the first decade of the 2000's. In my case i went from earning six figures steadily for 8 years straight, to barely making it into 5 figures the final year i ran my sites. And i did have a lot of exclusive content and steady updates. But as others have said, nothing beats free. Several things came into play in the mid 2000's to account for the dropoffs. More widespread high speed internet meant more people could join sites and download all of their content in a matter of days, then quit. Torrent sites became more popular, as well as blogs with links to direct downloads of pirated scenes etc.. and more people educated themselves on how to use them and realized they didn't have to pay. So really to get any rebills is a feat in and of itself as that means you had a signup to begin with.. lol Last edited by andykay; 01-10-2013 at 04:40 PM..