Someone explain this peace treaty in the Ukraine

[Rochard]

Seems to me like Ukraine just gave up a large portion of it's territory...

Under the deal, Ukrainian forces are required to pull back from the "actual" line of contact, meaning that rebels will be allowed to keep the 500 square miles of territory they've gained in tough fighting over the past month. It's not clear what should happen in the "Debaltseve bulge," where rebels have reportedly surrounded a Ukrainian army of 6,000 and appear unlikely to relinquish that advantage.

Kiev, rebels sign cease-fire, but Ukraine's path to peace remains steep - CSMonitor.com

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Seems to me like Ukraine just gave up a large portion of it's territory...

Under the deal, Ukrainian forces are required to pull back from the "actual" line of contact, meaning that rebels will be allowed to keep the 500 square miles of territory they've gained in tough fighting over the past month. It's not clear what should happen in the "Debaltseve bulge," where rebels have reportedly surrounded a Ukrainian army of 6,000 and appear unlikely to relinquish that advantage.

Kiev, rebels sign cease-fire, but Ukraine's path to peace remains steep - CSMonitor.com

It's just like the other ones.. They didn't give up sovereign land but allowing the rebels to "hold" parts of the country. Not like they are signing it over to Russia, just agreeing to allow Rebels to stay in certain areas.

Nothing will change, it's just more BS to pretend something positive is happening. They will still be fighting and are fighting at this very moment. There are also reports that while Putin was talking peace, that yet another armed convoy of 50 tanks & missile launchers rolled across the boarder.

Ukraine: 50 Russian tanks and 40 missile systems rolled into the country while Putin talked peace - Business Insider

It's pretty obvious no peace agreement involving Putin can be trusted. I honestly don't know why they even bothered, just more time for Russia to arm the rebels and secure up areas with more troops. Every peace talk has ended with Russian Rebels going for more territory.

Obviously Ukraine is at the disadvantage here as no one is supplying them with any weapons.. Unlike the Rebels are getting.. Which you know damn well "rebel" = Russian soldiers.

[CAHEK]

Its just give time to regroup forces and make better defensive positions

As you can see Ukrainaian forces are surrouned by Pro-Russian rebels.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by crockett

It's just like the other ones.. They didn't give up sovereign land but allowing the rebels to "hold" parts of the country. Not like they are signing it over to Russia, just agreeing to allow Rebels to stay in certain areas.

It seems to me they did give up their land. If the rebels "hold parts of the country" they've given up their land. Another report I read this morning talked about setting up an "autonomous region" of Eastern Ukraine and that it will "favor trade with Russia". In other words, a puppet state that isn't controlled by Kiev.

They just surrendered a portion of their country.

[dyna mo]

it's not a peace treaty, it's a cease fire.

i.e., 15 minute timeout

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

it's not a peace treaty, it's a cease fire.

i.e., 15 minute timeout

So it's a crease fire that gave up a portion of their country? Fucking brilliant.

[hadden]

Originally Posted by CAHEK

Its just give time to regroup forces and make better defensive positions

As you can see Ukrainaian forces are surrouned by Pro-Russian rebels.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Rochard

So it's a crease fire that gave up a portion of their country? Fucking brilliant.

as i understand it, the Ukrainian side has no chance of winning. there are 2 more days of fighting allowed, the russian side will grab more territory too.

[Scott McD]

To sum up, the Ukraine is fucked...

[aka123]

Another cease-fire. Rebels probably load up new rockets, stockpile some artillery ammo, get new tanks from Russia, and the war continues.

There is no peace, this is cease-fire. And officially even the last cease-fire is still going on.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Scott McD

To sum up, the Ukraine is fucked...

Pretty much that's what it seems like....

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Rochard

So it's a crease fire that gave up a portion of their country? Fucking brilliant.

They didn't give up anything.. They just agreed those are the battle lines for the cease fire.. Just like they did with the last cease fire.

In the original peace deal, Ukraine agreed to allow the Rebels to control those sections of land under their own police forces ect..ect.. It was still however part of Ukraine.. That wasn't good enough and the Rebels started invading more land.. ie obviously Russia pulling the strings.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by Scott McD

To sum up, the Ukraine is fucked...

It is Ukraine, not The Ukraine...

[DraX]

Originally Posted by crockett

It's just like the other ones.. They didn't give up sovereign land but allowing the rebels to "hold" parts of the country. Not like they are signing it over to Russia, just agreeing to allow Rebels to stay in certain areas.

Nothing will change, it's just more BS to pretend something positive is happening. They will still be fighting and are fighting at this very moment. There are also reports that while Putin was talking peace, that yet another armed convoy of 50 tanks & missile launchers rolled across the boarder.

Ukraine: 50 Russian tanks and 40 missile systems rolled into the country while Putin talked peace - Business Insider

It's pretty obvious no peace agreement involving Putin can be trusted. I honestly don't know why they even bothered, just more time for Russia to arm the rebels and secure up areas with more troops. Every peace talk has ended with Russian Rebels going for more territory.

Obviously Ukraine is at the disadvantage here as no one is supplying them with any weapons.. Unlike the Rebels are getting.. Which you know damn well "rebel" = Russian soldiers.

Can't we just get that filthy world war III going, so I can go back to bed?!

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Seems to me like Ukraine just gave up a large portion of it's territory...

Under the deal, Ukrainian forces are required to pull back from the "actual" line of contact, meaning that rebels will be allowed to keep the 500 square miles of territory they've gained in tough fighting over the past month. It's not clear what should happen in the "Debaltseve bulge," where rebels have reportedly surrounded a Ukrainian army of 6,000 and appear unlikely to relinquish that advantage.

Kiev, rebels sign cease-fire, but Ukraine's path to peace remains steep - CSMonitor.com

yes the ukrainians gave up a large portion of their territory to.. ukrainians!

have no fear, this cease fire will end up like the last ceasefire:

First Day After Minsk Agreement: Kiev Forces Resume Shelling of Donbas / Sputnik International

Ten people, including small children, were killed and scores injured in Ukraine?s war-ravaged Donbas region early Friday as Ukrainian artillery resumed its shelling of areas in and around Donetsk and Luhansk.

go team.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by crockett

Not like they are signing it over to Russia, just agreeing to allow Rebels to stay in certain areas.

*facepalm* Those territories never wanted to join Russia. They wanted to be independent. They call in "Novorossia". Educate yourself.

Originally Posted by _Richard_

yes the ukrainians gave up a large portion of their territory to.. ukrainians!

Indeed. Those rebels don't want to join Russia, and as far as I know, Russia is not going to let them in (we already have the enormous territory which in fact makes a lot of problems to us). They want their own country or at least an autonomy with its own budget etc.

Originally Posted by mineistaken

It is Ukraine, not The Ukraine...

Wrong. It is "the Ukraine" (in English: "the Outskirts"). Just like the Netherlands or the USA.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Indeed. Those rebels don't want to join Russia, and as far as I know, Russia is not going to let them in (we already have the enormous territory which in fact makes a lot of problems to us). They want their own country or at least an autonomy with its own budget etc.

i was under the impression they wanted federalization to begin with, and the independence idea only came up after the western side rolled tanks in to take over the local government.

its funny the OP is talking about 'trade ties' between this region and russia, since the entire country trades and basically depends on russian trade

[ilnjscb]

It would be great if they became a country of their own; the more little countries the better. These days boutique countries do really well. It leads to more fluid banking, more exciting investment, better product focus. Russia is a good example, some oblasts view the central government as a far away planet. In Krasnodar Krai which contains Sochi, a friend of mine told me they have a hard time even getting direction from Moscow. USA, Canada and Brasil are a little different because they're all new world countries with less entrenched differences.

[bronco67]

Putin will go about his business the same as he has been. That's the kind of behavior you can expect from a sociopath. They'll piss in your face and tell you it's raining.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

It is Ukraine, not The Ukraine...

Here, in the Canada, we look at :

[crockett]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

*facepalm* Those territories never wanted to join Russia. They wanted to be independent. They call in "Novorossia". Educate yourself.



Indeed. Those rebels don't want to join Russia, and as far as I know, Russia is not going to let them in (we already have the enormous territory which in fact makes a lot of problems to us). They want their own country or at least an autonomy with its own budget etc.



Wrong. It is "the Ukraine" (in English: "the Outskirts"). Just like the Netherlands or the USA.

You can facepalm all you want and believe your Ruski propaganda, but we have already seen Russia take over sections of Ukraine by force and have gunmen at the polling booths making sure people voted like good little commies.

[pornmasta]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Wrong. It is "the Ukraine" (in English: "the Outskirts"). Just like the Netherlands or the USA.

в украине или на украине ?

[pornmasta]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Wrong. It is "the Ukraine" (in English: "da hood"). Just like the Spain or the France.

i corrected it for you

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by crockett

You can facepalm all you want and believe your Ruski propaganda, but we have already seen Russia take over sections of Ukraine by force and have gunmen at the polling booths making sure people voted like good little commies.

I believe the video posted by directfiesta above, describes you very well

Originally Posted by pornmasta

в украине или на украине ?

"На" of course

[woj]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Wrong. It is "the Ukraine" (in English: "the Outskirts"). Just like the Netherlands or the USA.

Why Ukraine Isn't 'The Ukraine,' And Why That Matters Now - Business Insider

The Ukraine

"When the region formerly known as ?The Ukraine? split off from the old Soviet Union, it declared its preference for dropping the article, and the country is now properly called simply ?Ukraine.? "

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by woj

"When the region formerly known as “The Ukraine” split off from the old Soviet Union, it declared its preference for dropping the article, and the country is now properly called simply “Ukraine.”

Wow

[woj]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Wow

wow what? surprised by your lack of knowledge?

maybe in Russian English it's still "the Ukraine", everywhere else in the world correct form is "Ukraine"....

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by woj

maybe in Russian English it's still "the Ukraine", everywhere else in the world correct form is "Ukraine"

Who said that? Business Insider?

[woj]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Who said that? Business Insider?

Paul Brians - Emeritus Professor of English - Washington State University

Paul Brians
The Ukraine

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by woj

Paul Brians - Emeritus Professor of English - Washington State University

So what will happen if some John Doe - Acting Professor of English from Colorado/Mississippi/Alaska State University say "the Ukraine"? Will it change your language again? Do those professors have some power points to overcome each other? Just curious

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

yes the ukrainians gave up a large portion of their territory to.. ukrainians!

Do you honestly believe that?

This is really few hundred "separatists" being supported by thousands of Russian troops with their tanks and missile launchers. Russia is encouraging all of this, and Russia the cause of all of this. If the Ukrainian government decides it wants less ties with Russia and more ties with Europe, so be it. If a small portion of the population doesn't agree with it, then fucking leave and go back to Russia.

[woj]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

So what will happen if some John Doe - Acting Professor of English from Colorado/Mississippi/Alaska State University say "the Ukraine"? Will it change your language again? Just curious

no idea what you are talking about... "Ukraine" is the correct form, so I highly doubt some other English professor would claim that "the Ukraine" is actually the correct form, as that would be incorrect...

just like no English professor would ever mix up "then" and "than"... not sure why you are creating confusion/ambiguity, when there is none...

[woj]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

So what will happen if some John Doe - Acting Professor of English from Colorado/Mississippi/Alaska State University say "the Ukraine"? Will it change your language again? Just curious

no idea what you are talking about... "Ukraine" is the correct form, not because some professor said so, but it just is...

so I highly doubt some other English professor would claim that "the Ukraine" is the correct form, as that would be incorrect...

just like no English professor would ever mix up "then" and "than"... not sure why you are creating confusion/ambiguity, when there is none...

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by woj

"Ukraine" is the correct form, not because some professor said so, but it just is...

You have only one English professor in the USA? What's about others? I really hope you have at least a couple of them

Originally Posted by Rochard

Do you honestly believe that?

This is really few hundred "separatists" being supported by thousands of Russian troops

Wrong info. In fact there are millions of Russian troops on war bears fighting for the separatists on the Ukraine. Here is the proof (pics made by US spy satellites and provided to us by CIA):







This is a 100% confident information, approved by Colin Powell

P.S. How many buddies you have on Donbass? I have a few (all webmasters). So I'm getting all the information from them directly. I do not watch Russian propaganda, Ukrainian propaganda and Western (US) propaganda too. I don't watch TV news at all for years. When I'm criticize Putin (you know I hate him as a person) on Russian-speaking boards, the Eastern Ukrainians are first ones to call me "Obama sucker" and "betrayer". How come?

[woj]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

You have only one English professor in the USA? What's about others? I really hope you have at least a couple of them

this is pointless... I could find 10 different sources proving that it's "Ukraine", but why bother? to you it will always be "the Ukraine"... and as proof, you will offer some map from the 18th century...

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by woj

this is pointless...

Sure, sure Your professor is not really smart, because I bet he won't be able to explain why we have to say: "the Netherlands" (personally I know why and the same rule applies to the Ukraine for the same reason)

Originally Posted by Rochard

If the Ukrainian government decides it wants less ties with Russia and more ties with Europe, so be it.

Russia IS Europe. More than 40% of European territory belongs to Russia. There is no other country on our planet which has got a bigger share of the European continent. Did I tell you the US education sucks?

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Do you honestly believe that?

This is really few hundred "separatists" being supported by thousands of Russian troops with their tanks and missile launchers. Russia is encouraging all of this, and Russia the cause of all of this. If the Ukrainian government decides it wants less ties with Russia and more ties with Europe, so be it. If a small portion of the population doesn't agree with it, then fucking leave and go back to Russia.

in case anyone still doubts that - even though even Putin admitted they sent troops:

https://translate.google.com/transla...931&edit-text=

Original: Wie die Krim annektiert wurde: «Wir haben sie zur Abstimmung getrieben» - International Nachrichten - NZZ.ch

And even a presidential russian committee admits the Crimea referendum was forged:
http://old.president-sovet.ru/struct...ma.php?print=Y

https://translate.google.com/transla...089&edit-text=

Original: Kritik von unerwarteter Seite: Krim-Referendum stark gefälscht - Nachrichten - NZZ.ch


and this about "free" press in Russia (Google translate)

Putin rewarded "his" journalists

While the Kremlin bullies his critics, he rewarded handkehrum its apologists: How the Russian newspaper "Vedomosti" reported Putin has rewarded in a secret decree about 300 journalists with medals for their "professional and objective coverage of the events in the Republic of Crimea". Most of the journalists were honored accordingly the award "For merits before Fatherland". You are entitled after retirement to a supplementary pension, which is three to four times higher than the basic pension

From the original RUSSIAN document:

In Crimea about 30-50% of the entitled population went to vote - about 50-60% of them voted to join Russia

so that makes in the worst case 15% and in the best case like 30% that voted yes - officially it was 97% that voted yes from 83% that went

once again - russian numbers, not western propaganda

that is all so laughable that I don't even know where to start

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

that is all so laughable that I don't even know where to start

Start here:

[ctggls]

What i like about Russians like CyberSEO over here is that they believe Russia is the center of the Universe and if you ask them more it's actually Ukraine that wanted to invade Russia and they are just defending it. Most probably Russia will take another long-term loss like it always did and it's Economy will be down even more like it always have been.

[woj]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Sure, sure Your professor is not really smart, because I bet he won't be able to explain why we have to say: "the Netherlands" (personally I know why and the same rule applies to the Ukraine for the same reason)

*face palm*

are you seriously implying that you (someone with a very limited grasp of the English language) are more familiar with correct usage of English than a professor who spent his entire career studying every intricate detail of that language? a guy who happens to publish a book about common mistakes people make and even used "Ukraine" as one of the examples? You don't think he put a lot of thought into it, asked his peers to make sure he is indeed correct? but yea, CyberSEO says it's "the Ukraine" so it must be so...

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by ctggls

What i like about Russians like CyberSEO over here is that they believe Russia is the center of the Universe

Only clowns like you think that way. But who cares, actually?

Originally Posted by woj

are you seriously implying that you (someone with a very limited grasp of the English language) are more familiar with correct usage of English...

Course some unknown American professor of English knows the roots of the word "Ukraine" better than me - the native Russian speaker, and he can interpret/translate it better? You, Americans are so cute when you are trying to be smarter than all the other world

To dissertate about English meaning of some Russian word, you have to learn its roots (I mean the roots and true meaning of that word and rules of its using in Russian). I don't think your professor can understand Russian at least on the same level as me, to interpret the meaning of "Украина" (if the one that stupid to understand its meaning, he can't translate it to other language). Once again, right now we are just talking about English translation of the Russian word. Your professor did it breaking the rules of Russian language. Maybe he is a great in English, but he should stay away from Russian language, because he knows nothing about it.

[pornmasta]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

france at war:

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by pornmasta

france at war:

this is a hell of a funy picture...

can't kelp myself wondering WRF that guy was thinking of when he put on that costume

[SZNY]

How is it possible to make peace if all involved parties don't want to stop fighting?

Putin is sending tanks/rocket launchers while Obama is sending tank killers to Europe.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

I believe the video posted by directfiesta above, describes you very well



"На" of course

You are very brainwashed, little Borski.

As for that last topics where you claimed no knowledge of Russians eating Human flesh because they were starving. Here is a refresher course for your history lesson of today..

Russian famine of 1921 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not only did it happen in the self made famine in 1921 but also during WW2.

Both times the Good ole USA bailed your Russian asses out.. So why is it you hate us so much?

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by crockett

You are very brainwashed, little Borski.

P.S. I don't hate you at all. I just feel for you, a little stupid one.

[pornmasta]

ronnie raygun with a rgp 7 ?

[aka123]

Originally Posted by pornmasta

france at war:

At least France seems to have younger troops. All Russian soldiers seems to be gramps based on CyberSEO's objective intel.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

In Crimea about 30-50% of the entitled population went to vote - about 50-60% of them voted to join Russia

so that makes in the worst case 15% and in the best case like 30% that voted yes - officially it was 97% that voted yes from 83% that went

once again - russian numbers, not western propaganda

that is all so laughable that I don't even know where to start

This means very little to anyone.

First, only fifteen percent of the people of Crimea voted to leave Ukraine and move over to Russia and.... Ukraine had nothing to say about this? (Does this mean fifteen percent of the population of Texas can vote to leave the United States the rest of the population, no less the entire United States, has no say in it?)

Second, what happened with Crimea has very little to do with this. If Eastern Ukraine wants to leave and form it's own country, have a fucking a vote. It might just pass too because anyone who is against this has left the area.

I understand that Russian and Ukrainian ties are extremely close and have been for some time. But that doesn't give Russia the right to decide what is best for citizens of another country. Russia is encouraging this, and then supporting this.

I have friends who live in Crimea and also friends who live in Donetsk. I understand there are two sides to this story (my friends there are opposing sides too), but in at the end of the day this is all happening because Russia is promoting this and supporting this.

[Sid70]

The History Of Everything IMO.

1. Back in the USSR times, after numerous wars, repressions and henocides were killed a lot of good and elite people, many escaped and immigrated. It resulted in having a Soviet Human creation - irresponsible, sneaky bastard not being able to act on his own but in groups under control of a self proclaimed leader, basically what happened was a total DNA wreck and modification - only fuck turds survived. That would mean no matter what you do the next leader would be an ass hat turd. Thus mentality, lifestyle, total fear and corruption.

2. When USSR went to shit nobody actually knew what to do with their freedom ( rather pseudo freedom ). It did not change quality of the people - more, what was rather on hold in times of a strong leader went ballistic - nearly anarchic way.

3. USSR center was in Moscow, so even after collapsing they kept all the Soviet tech including propaganda, wealth and weapons facing outwards to the West.

4. Putin, as a strong leader, decided to change the rules and started his own game carefully studying the Western moves, touching Western butts here and there checking the reaction which was NONE in most cases. La piovra strategy in Putin's hands made a new meaning spreading around FSU countries.

5. 2004 brought Ukrainians hope to see the change, but somehow things went ugly and Putin managed to get under Yuschenko's skin to make him take Yanukovich on board - now Yuschenko is doing well and was never given any doubt of his actions. Back to DNA wreck theory - all the parade is being watched by Ukrainian nation, tired, robbed, scared people - zombified and low profile masses - elites are gone ( killed in wars, camps, jails, sent away, immigrated ). Eventually all the Ukrainian character - "My house stands aside" took over and people simply tried not giving a fuck adjusting to reality - paying bribes, dealing with mediocre living on everyday basis - stealing where possible, robbing the budget, cutting some here and there - surviving.

6. We would all laugh at Yanukovich with all his golden WC and shit if it wasn't about to start crying. Apparently, there were still people left in the country who stood up against his regime and made Putin very angry as he was definitely sure of controlling Ukraine via Yanukovich. Who would've thought Putin's economic appetites went that far to start a non existent divide in the Ukrainian society - it's a made up trick to tell Ukraine is not united.

7. One day Ukraine had a gay moment to give up all the nuclear weapon for shit - a paper that was meant something back in the day and apparently it means nothing these days. Budapest memorandum went to shit - this is the moment West should start worrying on a serious level. Why is he not worried much? Because they do not care about a DNA wrecked mordor ( All the FSU ) - they're watching and mind their own business interests. I could be wrong, but may be while Ukraine is on fire, West is getting shit together to be ready when time's up.

8. It's true that Crimea and Eastern Ukraine speaks Russian. There is historical connection to that. But that's how Putin decides to invade for saving Russians in Ukraine... from what? It's clear Ukraine would not stand against full scale war with Russia alone. This is why some would call Poroshenko stupid and failing in his agreements, isn't the West itself doing the same - waiting, gathering shit together using Ukraine as shield?

Conclusion:

West does not want to admit Putin has been fucking them longer then they even thought.
At some point I can understand the Western comfort living based on Russian gas supply and shit, if they fail people would tear them apart even in EU. Because when things get ugly people are the same everywhere. US has it's advantage, might play a world leader card again soon if EU takes action accidentally and gets hit by Putin US would win it all.