thommy

first of all you fucking uneducated dumb - the EU is not an idea of the germans - it is an idea of france and from the moment on EEG was founded our life became better.

that germany a france have a eight in the EU is just because these are the biggest country - in every democracy it is the MAJORITY who decides.
do you really think that the EU need holland? or do you even a bit understand that holland would be a 3rd world country without EEG and EU.
tell me WHAT is it what the world need from holland and can´t get somewhere else?
without the EU your tradingpartners would not even find you on the map.
without the EU you could not even find a fish in the nothsea anymore because you dumbheads would take them out without thinking in tomorrow or somebody else with more and bigger ships would do it if there would not be rules to prevent it at least in parts.

god thanks that most of the citizens of the netherlands are not that supid as you are and know from what they can afford a suitable life.

the germans learned from their history - the ones who want to repeat it are dumbheads like you.
i think you should stop a bit to go to coffeeshops - it is not good fro your brain.

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DraX

Clearly a HARDCORE EU supporter Brainwashed by the establishment

You sound very naive and put too much faith in the EU. The fact that the Netherlands would be a 3rd world country according to you without the EU is just laughable. You're the one sounding uneducated Mr "U.K. would not have any bananas without the EU"

You would be a good right hand for Angela Merkel the supreme traitor

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thommy

ok help me to get this job and i try to help you to get the job as a toilette cleaner (even when you are underqualified for it).

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rogueteens

Strange that, you are the one on record saying that you condone violence against people voicing a criticism of your beloved fourth reich.

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thommy

strange that you idots sound all the same.
are you sharing this one brain cell or what is your secret to be that far away from homo sapiens ?

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Tasty1

Bla bla bla, Holland did fine with the EEG, without the Euro and the EU and influence of Brussel. No need to make a fourth reich like what is happening now in Brussels.

You have a mouth full of majority, till you lose the majority like in the UK, than you start crying that the world has come to an end and everybody is dumb.

What do we need from Germany that we can't get somewhere else?

Ps, now Europe is fishing in African waters, so the people doesn't have food there. Wow, what is the EU good for protecting their own fish (and stealing others). And that because it is going so well in Europe that now everyone can affort fish. Hey, you see. How better it goes in a country, the worse for the environement.

If a majority decides to fuck up Europe and Brittain, that doesn't mean i will listen to that and support it. just like when Europe decides to start a war with Russia, i won't go even if they sent me. The majority has spoken out many times in Holland, and the government didn't listen. That means people have to vote more extreme to get to their goals. And that is what is happening. And it takes only time before a majority of people will vote for politcians that want less influence from the EU.

Why did you get the name Thommy, had your mother special memories of the tommies?

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pimpmaster9000

Paul is elite...

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rogueteens

Yeah, that the spirit. No sign of any facts of figures but abuse. you, bootboy are a real left-winger aren't you. Let me guess, the next step is to call everyone racist?
Have luck in your shrinking empire.

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Paul Markham

The voting share between poor and rich EU nations favours the poor. So as a democracy is run by the countries with the most votes, they outweigh France and Germany. When the UK leaves the balance will tip further towards the poor. As will the bills to run the EU will fall on the shoulders of Germany. Yes the EU needs Holland.

France is sinking further into debt. DebtClocks.eu - Debt clocks of the EU Member States - comparison

Look at the debt of the countries that have supplied the West with a low-skilled, low-paid workforce. Then compare that debt with the countries that took the low-skilled, low-paid workforce. Great for the capitalist and big business. Sucks for the people of the richer countries earning less than $60,000 per year.

The EU has allowed overfishing.

With the EU there is no Holland at the bargaining table. Along with every other country, the bargaining is for the EU and as I pointed out that's not run for the benefit of individual countries. How many times has the EU failed to get a trade deal and how long does it take to get one?

You bring up a good point about coffee shops. Go visit one in the UK and see who is behind the counter serving up the coffee and existing on minimum wage.

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thommy

the guys with no facts are you.
you are the putin and trump brainwashed with no clue at all.
guys like you or the dutch kid slept on a historny book and read some fake news and you think you understand the world but in fact guys like you are the tools what are used by the ones what have good reasons to destroy a working EU or a working country.

see how successful they are ! they spiltted america already in 2 parts and now they want to split the EU in many small parts with the help of bonsaibrains like you and the 2 dutch microbrains.

you call me brainwashed and left but i am nothing of that - i do not even have a political direction. I just can count one and one together and I have konowledge of economies what you guys do not.

you are not even able to name the problems you see - all i hear are problems from other parts of the society what you obviously not belong to.
you are just full of hate because you do not see what you have you only see what you not have. you do NOT think for the society - not one of you brainwashed freaks.

so call it by name and say: i want all i do not care what happens to others - that would show your REAL face and would explain that you monkeys do not understand the basics of a democratic society.

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Paul Markham

If the EU is so great, why are EU countries sinking further into debt?

DebtClocks.eu - Debt clocks of the EU Member States - comparison

European debt crisis: It's not just Greece that's drowning in debt

With no sign of ever stopping the rise in debt.

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Struggle4Bucks

You really have no clue about Holland, do you?
It is and Always was one of the wealthiest European nations.
For example. Holland, that shitty tiny state, after the US, is the biggest food producer and exporter in the world. We basically feed the fucking world! What about you, you Swiss fucks? Some watches; couple of knives and some money laundering

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rogueteens

Working EU? LOL, That's rich!

world war one, world war two, 1966 and 2017. You Germans, eh?
Never mind, that will be the last time you Germans try to take over Europe, the Fifth Reich will be run under sharia rules.
Have fun with your coffee-coloured grandchildren meekly being rounded up to the mosques under posters of the Furher Merkel.

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Paul Markham

If the EU was a Private company it would have been closed down years ago. The financial crisis exposed its huge weaknesses.





Blaming it on the Crash in 2008 is ignoring the real issue. Apart from Banking where are the major industries that can sustain the high levels of Government Spending that people demand? They're no longer in Europe and are still leaving at an alarming rate.

The promise of new jobs replacing the old ones that went never materialised. The promise of new jobs replacing the old tech ones as automation and computerisation progresses is also proving to be a lie.

GDP can't keep pace with Government spending.



Study what the UK Government spends money on to keep the increasing numbers of poor from literally starving or being homeless. There are far too many poor people relying on the rest for subsidies and the number of poor are growing by the day.





I highlighted the UK but they are just one country suffering from the disastrous laws the EU passes. I say disastrous but not if you're one of the rich. They are getting richer by the day.

The reasons are clear. Globalisation, Mass migration and automation. And what has the EU done to stem any of those? Look around you for items made in your country or in Europe. The number of times you see a low paid job done by a migrant or machine. By 2050 at the present rate, the EU will be bankrupt or hopefully gone, so individual countries can run themselves to solve individual problems.

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thommy

god thanks that you guys will be killed before - you are just disgusting and far from a person with a mind - so fuck of - eat poison and don´t breathe the air from people who want to safe the world.

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thommy

paul sorry - you post numbers what you do not undestand - you have proved with every post here that you are not familiar with economy - same as your dutch child.

post me the numbers where it is proven that you are right. show me ONE country in the world what was not effected by the last crisis - one country what could go out of it without a damage.

and yes holland is doing fine in that that´s why i do not understand why anybody have to complain it.

here look a bit on the numbers of NL and tell me what happend AFTER they joined the EU.

and please do NOT FORGET to read the articles under the stats because maybe you guys wake up and see HOW much we need to be united.

just take the chinese imports from holland and check out what will happen.
take the german imports from holland and check out what will happen.
is there still enough fish in the nothsea that they can survive ?

i hope that you will not die before you not see how much your homecountry will suffer from the brexit. the day will come when they beg to get back into a strong union and piss on the graves of them who brainwashed them.

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thommy

here you clown - if you can read and understand it tell me where NL is without the EU

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DraX

You really set the standard here Thommy boy, you express yourself like a fucking child...

You're the definition of a full blown commie, have fun with that.

Your cretin based analysis and posts means squat to me.

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Tasty1

That link doesn't work. And Thommyboy, life is not all about money. If we wanted that we could have stayed with the Third Reich. South Africa would financialy be better of with apartheid, do we want that? Do we want a EU and be controlled by Brussel. You must look in history how many times war where started cause people want to live in a souvereign country.

You act if people want to destroy the EU. That is not the case. Most people want some form of cooperation, but not how it is going now. And the only way to prevent that is to step out of the EU, cause there are no reasonable politcial party's that want to listen to both sites. The Dutch don't want the treaties with Ukrain, but after a referendum they didn't listen. Just like no one will listen cause we are such a small country that we have nothing to say. Well, than we must say goodbye on a certain point. How hard is that to understand?

That treaty that Turkey will join the EU, should have been put in the trash years ago. You know that Wilders was with the VVD, but stepped out cause the VVD wanted Turkey to join the EU and Wilders didn't want to support that.. And now we get the bla bla bla that they won't join cause there are not following the rules bla bla. If that is the case, just put that treaty in the trashcan and show it.

You where also so wrong a few weeks ago about the Turkish referendum. Thinking that educate them would mean they would stand against Erdogan and they would bring sense back to Turkey. In the end it showed that Erdogan has more back up from the Turkish in Germany and Holland than in his own country. That theory of you went up in smoke.

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thommy

southafrica is a quite good example what shoudl show you that the "will" of uneducated people does not lead to success.

here i do agree completely - i did not say that the EU is a perfect solution yet but we have no other choice in glabl world with gloabl problems as to union.

so you tell me if you do not like the food you die from hunger ?
that is stupid !

what is wrong with this agreement?

it agreement contains political and socio - political objectives (democracy, the rule of law, human rights), measures to curb corruption, rules on cooperation in security policy, but above all rules on standardization and approximation in trade, customs duties, taxes and taxes Taxes, competition law, energy issues and environmental protection.

do you not want to sell goods to other countries or want another tschernobyl ?

the only ones who will suffer are the dutch. your economy will fall apart completely and germany will have the next enonomic refugees.

you do not have to be a right radicalist to think that - here i agree too and MANY politicians in germany and austria are fighting for the same.

don´t forget that turkey is an important parzner in the NATO and one of the last muslim countries what can help us to get rid of the troor problem. you want we let them alone and let them radicalize themselve?
wonderful strategy !!!!

you are wrong agian. have you seen the participation quotes? have you heard from the thousands of turkish people who scared to put just one foot in the turkish embasy to vote because they where afriad that they lose their passports?

do you know HOW MANY so called Gülem-sympatisliving in Germany and Holland ?
Do you really believethat these people will step through a door where they under 100% under turkish law?
do you know that an embassy in every country in the world is an untouchable ground of the country it is belonging to ?

i think you do not know many things and that makes you so blind and just see the small top of t the big iceberg.

don´t missunderstand me - i casee that you really worry and want to change things (what is good) but what i also can see is that you do not understand the complexity of things and the consequences of your "easy ideas".

look around you - look at all countries in the wolrd and ask people if they agree with their goverments - you will not find ONE SINGLE PERSON who doest complain.

do you really think that in history of humans there have NEVER been anyone who was not corrupt or incapable????

the truth is, that all this promises in elections are failing on the reality or on the promis of someone else a country needs.

politics is never perfect for everywone - it can NEVER make everybody 100% happy it is just the try to get as near as possible to that point.

btw. turkey is a great example for that. i am pretty sure that trump would like to do the same as erdogan but he is not that far yet to touch the little rest of democracy in US - but if he could he would do it.

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thommy

if it does not work i will explain you some numbers:

NL imports in 2016

FROM the EU 204 482 459 000,--

NL EXPORTS TO the EU 311 289 763 000,--

TRADING BALANCE = PLUS 106 807 304 000,--


IMPORTS FROM NON EU = 176 086 160 000,--

EXPORTS TO NON EU = 121 052 399 000,--

TRADING BALANCE = MINUS 55 033 760 000,--

Not all about money?
from what do you buy your food? from the depts ????

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DraX

You hear that people, we have no other choices....unbelievable how indoctrinated you are

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Struggle4Bucks

Money is like water... it always choses the path of least resistance...

Don't worry... these are the numbers of the "Hallal" community

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Tasty1

So now the fake news says that the Turkish people not dare to vote. Again trying to make people think most Turkish respect freedom of speech. I saw a tv report and people just went in a bus to vote, pro and anti Erdogan. Look at the polls, it showed long before that most Turkish support Erdogan. Also nice, living with people that show more interest in Gulem and Erdogan, PKK, grey Wolves, and other crazy shit. Never seen a group foreigners in other countries that have to spread their political ideoligy in other countries. I don't ride around with Dutch flags and set up organisations in Brazil to support Wilders or Rutte. Or even worse, start a religous organisation to accomplish that.

I said if politicians don't listen and only follow europhiles, there is no other option than leave. Just like we can't give up the treaty we have with Turkey now, or all 28 countries must agree. Or you must step out. Well, than just step out. And that will be only worse when corrupt countries join the EU. It will be harder and harder to change things people don't want if 1 country won't agree. On the other hand, now they want to change that so you need a majority, instead of all countries agreeing. That gives the problem that there will be less and less sovereignty.

The Ukrain treaty is a treaty with the most corrupt country in Europe. In the beginning the minister president of Holland called is just a normal trade deal. But when it looked people would vote against it, suddenly he said that that way people supported Putin, a world war could break out and he even said "do you know what a vucuum bomb in Syria does"???/ Suddenly a vote against Ukrain joining the eu would result in mass slaughters. And now you tell also itt is just a trade deal... who can you believe.,... In the end, the Dutch people don't wanted it.

You are so negative when a country leaves the EU. You sound like a politician, economies will be destroyed, WW3 will start, all to scare people. Why are you so afraid. I am sure there are enough smart people that find a solution and the economy will do just fine. we have heard the "end of the world" predictions too many times.

With europhiles like Verhofstadt, Juncker, Timmermans it will only get worse.

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rogueteens

Ahh, here comes the truth. You Germans just cannot help yourselves can you. What are you suggesting? Concentration camps and gassings for all anti-EU dissenters?
Lets face it, you guys just do not change, you just march under a different flag.

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DraX

Thommy is giving all Germans bad rep, I can assure you not everyone is talking like this caveman.

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thommy

for you i would personally recommend cyankali - but you are free to do it the way you like.

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thommy

says who ????

you guys are mentally far away from neanderthaler - you should relly seek professional help.

i do not even want to use your obvious nazi rethoric even when i can see that this is the only ways to speak with aliens like you and a few other empty heads here.

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rogueteens

You should watch this video, you'll find it closer to the truth than you realise.

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Jel

In other totally legit money news, steve hirsch offers a bazillion gajillion to the Queen for a sextape.

ps lol @ thommy. I have it on good authority you are a good guy, know your industry shit, and have done very well. Kudos for that, I admire anyone who makes it in any biz. Shame about the insane ranting with anyone who doesn't share your view(s) though... for an educated guy you sure seem to have missed the fact that not everyone thinks the same, has the same attitude to being controlled to whatever degrees, have their own feelings on various gov'ts' overreach, have different experiences both past and ongoing, and don't have the same luxuries as you maybe have?

I cringe when I see anyone dismiss the less fortunate, or less well off, or any large group of people eg voters who maybe didn't have the exact same upbringing, the exact same experiences, the exact same network of peers/family, the exact same thought processes, the exact same opportunites, and so on as themselves.. to lump in blithely tar ALL those people as being dumb or bad or 'hitler-esque' (lol wtf) because they don't share YOUR specific thoughts is arrogance and pompousness in possibly it's purest form. I mean seriously, can you check your fucking self for just a second? How is that any different from a racist who tars all with the same brush, or a sexist, or a homophobe, or any other bigot? I'm guilty as anyone at times but some of you guys take it to a whole new level.

Interfering while (genuinely) aiming to 'help', and inadvertently making things worse in the long run is nothing new. The govt's of the world are the top offenders by a fucking long way at such, so is it really any surprise that *gasp* SOME people see gov't overreach as a problem rather than the solution to everything? And for the icing on the cake, they get referred to as neanderthals, told to go kill themselves, are called fascists, and a ton of other retarded shit you and a few other extremists seem to spew out whenever you are presented with different views than you hold, with your entire rhetoric always propped up by your belief that your background in economics means you are unequivically correct and anyone coming from a different life experience is out and out wrong on just about everything they disagree with you on.

Of course economics is important, and I'm not trying to belittle the impact of that, but so does real life, and for millions of people, real life is dictated by well... their actual life. Why not take a moment to dismount that high horse, and at least attempt to see things from the point of view of someone else... you'll almost certainly be able to present your arguments in a way that those who disagree with you will actually absorb and process. Ranting like a spoiled 12 year old girl having a hissy fit will accomplish pretty much fuck all.

sexsami

stop generalizing

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Tasty1

Maybe try to understand a babyboom... It was the biggest in history. Birth control has influeced that there where less children the years after. But if there wasn't a babyboom (war), it wouldn't have been such a big issue. And than there wasn't need for so much immigration, causing the clashes we are facing now.



Blue line: 65+
Green Line: 80 +

But i see, WW2 has nothing to do with it... that is why all studies mention the babyboom as current problems with expensive Healthcare, pensions, immigration...

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Paul Markham

Here's a list of them. Which ones are doing it by the benefit of taking jobs away from Westerners? And be sure to take a look at Holland who only increased GDP per capita enough to reward the rich who send the jobs overseas.


The way the EU took control of trade has to be admired. What would happen if China was made to pay a 30% import tax on all its goods? The EU Steel industry might have more jobs, along with even more industries.

Take the German exports to Holland and the UK and millions of Germans lose their jobs. Take German jobs and give them to Third World companies and millions of Germans lost their jobs. Why do you have double standards when it comes to the Third World?

I have lived long enough to see the damage the EU has done to the UK. The evidence I posted of the numbers forced onto benefits and the need to borrow money because industries have gone remains unanswered.

If the EU was so good, why do so many countries need to go into deep debt to support themselves?

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Paul Markham

Another liberal who believes a country needs more people to survive.

It's not the number of people that determines an economy. It's the amount of money in their pockets. Today a growing population = more debt as most of those new people are unemployed or on low wages. GDP per capita, the average wage of the bottom 80%, the amount spent on benefits. Proves me right. As more jobs are taken away from a society the last thing it needs is more people to feed.

Compare the countries that supply the cheap jobs with the ones that lost them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._growth_ rate

It might show you why I'm right.

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Tasty1

So you speculate that when Holland leaves the EU, we are not allowed to do any trading? That trading would disappear? Is the EU making plans than to bancrupt Holland? That would be a Nazi idea.

PS, if England has to pay to leave the EU, does Holland get the 100 billion back that we are in the plus?
Dutch politician demands ?100m from ECB boss if they leave eurozone | World | News | Express.co.uk


The statistics in Holland showed what Dutch found most important at the elections:

1) Immigration
2) Healthcare (remember, babyboom aftter WW2, we inherented from WW2)
3) Crime
4) Economy

And Sweden is doing well without Euro. Maybe it is time to get rid of the Euro and give countries the chance to play with the excahnge rate. Now we had in Holland a lot of extra taxes to pay the Bill of Europe, while Europe is printing billions for other countries. Could they not just print some money for Holland also, so we didn''t have to economize?

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thommy

trading WHAT ?????
holland does not have big industry and not a lot of natural ressources.

the BIP in holland grow more than 100% since they joined the EU because of the advantage of international trading contracts.

do you think holland import power is the same as the one of the EU ?

that holland CAN be an exporter is not at least a result of chaeper imports and open trading borders.

25% of the total exports from holland are going to germany.

and you REALLY think holland could stand that alone?

if I would be you I would better wait to see how well that goes in britain before you close a door what will not open again.

you should check your vitam D household. paranoia can come from a low vitami D level.


oh sure you will because if the idea of the EU will not stand because of right minded people like you you can get that because after the EU is done you can wipe your ass with it because the Euro is than a piece of paper.

[QUOTE]
The statistics in Holland showed what Dutch found most important at the elections:

1) Immigration

that mess you had already BEFORE the EU or don´t you know that holland was once a imperialistic country (same britain) and now have to pay the bill?

2) Healthcare (remember, babyboom aftter WW2, we inherented from WW2)
BULLSHIT !!!!

3) Crime

oh yes that is a problem because your crime rate DROPPED 8.8%
but i think the radical right wing in holland will change that soon.


4) Economy

as I said the BIP of Holland went up more than 100% since the EU and the Euro.
and for this you pay fucking 0,54% of the BIP.

and do you knw WHY you pay that? because they agreed to to make rotterdam the number one harbour for sea transportations to the EU. ALL european countries north from italy are using it.

do you think hamburg can´t replace rotterdam?

mabye this over 100% growth are too much for you and you want to suffer. If so - DO IT but why do you want that the majority of the citizens does that too just becaue you are not smart enough to undertand the complexity ot the world?

don´t comapre sweden with holland. sweden is a country of enourmous technology exports (mostly to china btw) and natural ressources.

and sweden´s economy went down because of the problem with the crown. actually sweden is printing money to keep the exchange rate comparable to the Euro.

for WHAT OTHER COUNTRY is the EU printing money?
why are you talking like a child ? why do you see what you pay in the EU and not what you receive from the EU? that was the same fake information what caused the brexit because they were talking only from the spendings but not from the benefits. and this mistake the brits will pay VERY EXPENSIVE.

companies already run away in flocks. london stock exchange will be loosing importance and all waht britain can do in the future is to become a second panama and survive as a money laundry country.
the sissors between rich and poor will open MUCH more.

i mean - i do not really care if there are more countries going out of the EU because the strongest one will survive - and then all the others who went out will try to make a new EU and everything starts again. unity is not a choice it is an obligation to survive.

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thommy

just a question on that:

did you read WHY i get angry also?

check this threat and tell me WHERE there was ONLY ONE SINGLE FACT written by roquteens or drax. all you can see her is quoting and comments what are just insulting, racist and radical.

even if i do not share the thoughts of the 2 dutch guys here i can discuss with them and they have at least arguments what one can answer.

what kind of discussion you can have with such statements?

Originally Posted by rogueteens View Post
Working EU? LOL, That's rich!

how would YOU answer on such bullshit with not even a drop of essence?

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thommy

number 4 Unilever (124,6 Mrd. ?) - the netherlands

number ONE - 1. Nestlé (219,2 Mrd. ?) - switzerland

BIP per citizen holland: 44.433,41 USD
BIP per citizen switzerland 80.214,73 USD

so far the facts to your knowledge.

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Paul Markham

What comes across from Thommy is his dream of an EU that rules Europe and crushes any nation that tries to break away.

His approach is always how much countries that leave will lose and never how much the remaining EU countries will lose. The Netherlands does a lot of trade with the EU and has a surplus, the UK has a deficit.

The people who ran the Common Market were very clever. They took control of the trade member states did, then signed up to deals that could take complete control of Europe. Without consulting the people of Europe or ignoring the results of any referendum that voted not to join the EU.

Thommy is now in favour of punishing any country that dares to vote to leave the EU. No matter how much damage that causes to the people remaining in the EU.

Read up on what the EU attempts to do when it sets up major trade dealswith non-EU nations.

TTIP illustrates the terrible mess the EU trade negotiators made.

Trade deals are done behind closed doors with no information leaking out. Then a vote rubber stamps the agreement. No one has any intention of asking the 500 million Europeans what they want.

The problem when setting trade deals is the cost of labour in Third World Countries. What EU trade deal forces countries with a low-paid workforce, like China, to buy as much as it sells?

EU trade deals are constructed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. And put the middle class into the poor bracket. That's what Thommy wants a Europe rules by Germany with everyone else punished should they decide to leave.

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pimpmaster9000

the "hypocrite trade deal of 2017" forces them

"dear china, we the europeans, buy too much of your goods...YOU are obviously to blame ...so please pass a law that makes your own citizens buy goods we do not want to buy ourselves "

it is being drafted as we speak...

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thommy

what a nonsense - nobody has forced anybody in the EU.
the EU should be a unit - what you say is the same as "a country that rules a country"

sure will the remaining countries lose - there is no doubt about that. but they will loose LESS then the rest. what will THEY DO ? founding a new EU ???

and WHY britain have a deficit I explained you already. it is a pure result of the british pound. no one has forbidden you to keep the pound, but you should not blame the others for your own wrong decisions

what a nonsense - what kind of anarchist are you that you do not understand that every kind of unity needs rules.
is this just pure egoizm or just rest alcohol what speaks out of you ?

paul did you not realize that non of the realistic politicians and not one bigger company wants that? WHO will give the work you want to the people when all this companies are going ? and they go with a reason and not because of missunderstanding the enonomy.

first you have to show them on the map where those countries are.

the biggest trades happening are INSIDE the EU. and they happens BECAUSE of the euro
and opening trade borders.

if the 500 million europeans have that much clue of eceonomy as you have it would be better to keep them out because if the world runs by the ideas of hobby enonomists it would not work at all.

i case of CETA you have posted also an old information because everybody (including the most politicians and the big companies was protesting against it (me too) but in a democracy things will find an open ear and that is why what you have postet is not fact.


THIS:
is not part of CETA and it was the major reason why TTIP was never signed.

so what are you complaining? do you complain that US and Canada WANTED that part or that the EU did NOT sign it ?????

paul i am sorry you really do not have the SMALLEST clue of what you are taking about.

i will give you an example:

if you work 1 hour and make 50 dollars and someone else works for you 10 hours but make only 2 dollars per hour WHAT IS YOUR EXCHANGE RATE ????

forget about money - money does not mean anything. it is just a help to exchange performance.

not one nation in the world can survive without buying cheap labour from outside.

where do you think would a company like apple and microfoft be when the parts of the computers would be produces on european wages?
do you think you would be able to buy a computer? i doubt it !!!

the whole world is consrtucted like that and the boss of people who want that is mr. trump. if you do not want that and want equality in the world - we all would live like chinese. so yes - they give us PROSPERITY !!!!

in 100 thousand years of mankinds history PROSPERITY was growing by enlarging markets and with finding the CHEAPEST way to produce things.

just answer me the following question:

WHY should people who are not able to produce things on an affordable price do that ?
WHO WOULD BENEFIT ????? fucking NOBODY WOULD !

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thommy

exactly !!!

paul thinks he speaks for the poor but he don´t understands that he does THE OPPOSITE of that.

in his world EVERYBODY would have a job but would work 5 years without holidays and saving money from his mouth to buy a new TV.

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GLMBV

hahahah so apparently I grew up in a 3rd world country until about "93?

Well thank you EU, thank you EEG for the prosperous life we get to live here.. And thank you Thommy for a laugh

thommy

you forget that we are not in 93 anymore

here is something for you in REAL numbers

don´t forget to look what happen after 2000 ;-)

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Paul Markham

Evbery Common Narket country thatwas taken into the EU without a referendum was forced. France, holland and Eire voted OUT. Two were ignored the other told to go and have another vote and get it right the second time. Since then the EU has tightened its grip on Europe without referendums.

Yes they will form their own trade agreements now free to do so. They will be free to strike trade deals outside the EU.

Because the pound was too strong or too weak?

You ignored my statement.


Democracy is about what the people want. So far the EU has made it plain it's not asking the people what they want. Revealing to see you think it's about politicians and big business. Now you have to consider, will the big EU businesses allow the EU politicians to make them poorer?

You ignored my statement. There is a larger market outside the EU.


The 500 million have a very good idea about how their own economies work. Most are poorer. Look at GDP per capita. Organise it by 2006-2010 then biggest to smallest.

You will see Poland has grown by 4.71%. to be followed by other nations that have weak economies and a low wage work force. The highest growth in an economic powerhouse Western economy is Germany at 1.37%. The rest are around or under 1% growth. Deduct inflation, borrowing growth, the richest share of wealth and tell us where the personal economy of Europeans has grown.

While countries economies have grown slightly, people's incomes have mostly fallen.


So why did the politicians spend so long and so much money trying to get CETA and TTIP through? You missed my point, that was the deal the bureaucrats were trying to sign.

And here you display how little you grasp the real economics.

If a person in the West makes something for $20 that a person in the Third World makes for $1. It's great to buy it from the Third World. Unless the person in the West who is now out of a job needs the State to give him $19. Your entire economic approach relies on the person in the West to disappear. How many more jobs will go to the Third World before companies like Apple and Microsoft don't have enough customers in the West to buy their products? Again look at GDP to see how well your theory is shown to be stupid.

The whole world was constructed on the basis that the need for manual labour was the driving force of an economy. Today we have a new set of rules where manual labour is disappearing.

Also, the West grew strong by adopting the Industrial Revolution and selling good to the Third World or rulling it.

Because the way we are heading the majority of people in the West are getting poorer.

The stats I show prove it.

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Paul Markham

I don't see it being drafted soon. So long as big business owns politicians they won't allow it.

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Paul Markham

When discussing topics like the costs of manufacturing goods in the West Virginia China. Is people like Thommy think it's only about the wages of the workers. He ignores the entire costs of running a company. Taxes, wages, rents profits and all the other costs. Everything leaves the West and go to China. Also go are the jobs that supported the company and fed off the wages of the workers.

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thommy

well than this is the best solution for your problem because if all jobs go to china the west does not have money to import and they can not buy from there anymore.

sounds like YOUR logic, right ?

paul did you know that in the middle age people used herbs instead of salt because salt was so expensive that they can´t afford to buy it.

do you know WHY that have changed ?

i mean let´s take you as an example: you live in CZ but getting money from UK.

why do you not live in UK? is it because you can´t have a dinner for 7 euros in london ?

so you do it because of prosperity. you can buy more there with your money as you can in britain. why should british people do not have the same right ?
IF they buy goods from outside in britain at least a british salesman makes money with it and some transportation company and the british goverment too because of the import tax.
WHAT DO THEY MAKE ON YOU ?

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Tasty1

Switzerland is not part of the EU. Well, doesn't that say enough...

They have treaties with the EU without losing their sovereignty.
In 2002 they rejected joining the EU in a referendum.
A referendum politicians in Holland ignore, and rejects..

What you say that if Holland leaves the EU that there wouldn't be any trade with the EU?
That is just a nazi 4th reich idea. The trade will just go on, but Holland doesn't have to be in the euro or in the EU.

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Paul Markham

Now you are starting to get it.

Not all the jobs, just enough to ensure the rich keep getting richer. Of course, you have ignored the Third World trading amongst itself. Look at the chart I gave you of nations growing their GDP, these are the new markets. Where do you see Western Economies?

Wealth is measured in currencies, not items sold. Which is why previous times had very wealthy people and very poor people who couldn't afford to buy anything.

Look back to the wealth difference in pre 20th century times. The concept of a large rich middle class is a very new phenomenon.

Yes, I moved from the UK to Czech, so can see it was more than the hourly rate of workers that left the UK. My entire turnover including jobs, taxes and all the services and goods I paid for left the UK. This is why India has a GDP growth rate of 6.80 and China 6.70. While Germany, the UK, US, lags behind at 1.8 or less. Which isn't enough to cope with the cost of living or the extra spending that results in companies moving production. GDP is based on the Gross Domestic Product, not just workers wages.

You still haven't answered my point about the worker in the West that was on Western wages and contributing taxes, is now unemployed living on benefits and not contributing.

Are you relying on the morals of businessmen to keep jobs in the West for the majority of people? If so when do you think they will stop moving businesses to the Third World?

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