Paul Markham

Got this email this morning from a member to the paysite. It's in regards to a discussion we are having about a new site I have in the pipeline.

So what do you think of his business analysis?

Do we spend too much getting new traffic than retaining what we have.

Do we really listen to what members want?

As an industry not individual companies.

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pocketkangaroo

It's tough to say. I think a lot of companies have given up on the rebill. I do disagree with him saying "it cost very little to hold onto a rebill". Lots of good, exclusive content costs money and to keep a member happy, you're going to need to offer him something new every month. Even then, with the abundance of porn sites available and the fact that $30/month isn't all that cheap for looking at mostly the same stuff, you're still going to have trouble with rebills.

I've said for awhile that I really think rebills are dead on most porn sites. Sure there are micro-niches and certain solo girls who update all the time that can retain, but they are few and far between. I do think there is opportunity for long term revenue from a member, but I think the current pricing structures and setup would need to be much different for it to happen.

StuBradley

why don't you fix your other sites before you worry about building new ones.

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L-Pink

Sounds rather detailed for a guy with his cock in his hand.

Paul Markham

The problem with your scenario is it does not have to be exclusive content. It needs to be new content and in the niche of the site.

In fact exclusive could be a problem. The same shooter shooting the same scenes and the same way. Can get very boring and new scenes are just clones of old scenes. Plus to keep a member you need to offer him something more than monthly updates.

If you're in a niche where nothing new is available non exclusive you have to get it exclusive. No options.

But is this the future?

Unless you are up in the top rungs and can afford to give members 200 new videos a year, your site will be very much on the 1 month membership basis?

Again assuming you are not in a minor niche where members will wait around. but even then will they leave and come back in 6 months?

Please I am not trying to turn this into a content thread. don't need to.

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pocketkangaroo

Whatever the content is, I still don't think many companies can add enough to clearly satisfy a surfer long term unless they are in a micro-niche and the surfer just has no other options.

Lets say a guy wants to join an interracial site. He literally has 200 options to choose from. Even if he finds a great one, after a month of wanking off, he's going to want to see what the other sites have to offer. It's going to cost him $30, so why not make the shift.

So I honestly don't feel that with the current structure of 99% of the paysites out there, you will ever see substantial rebills. I think the best bet for a paysite owner is to try and be the one that sends the member to the other paysite so you can make a few extra bucks off of him. Unless paysites start consolidating, this will just be how things go from now on.

edgeprod

And with the same viewpoints Paul has, no less. Amazing!

Rochard

SAY WHAT?

That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. Of course everyone is chasing after the rebill - it's free money. In our industry we spend so much money trying to get that customer..... We give huge percentages to webmasters..... Yes, you want to keep them as long as possible. Rebill forever!

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Rochard

I find it hard to believe this comes from a content provider.

Content is kind and you need exclusive content. Why would a surfer sign up for your site if they can see the same old shit they can see on Google picture search?

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baddog

There is no way that email is from a member, unless he has a crush on you.

I think Paul is the only one that has given up on the rebill, as evidenced by his $5 no rebill network of sites.

baddog

I hate when people force me into agreeing with Paul, but I have brokered several successful affiliate programs that don't use exclusive content.

StuBradley

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edgeprod

I've got a question on a COMPLETELY UNRELATED TOPIC:

If someone writes a letter to themselves, and has no memory of it, does this mean they suffer from multiple personalities?

datatank

Exactly 123

edgeprod

Are you saying that Paul, an upstanding member of this community that makes GFY a better place, would have anything to do with threads of anything less than stellar quality? I, for one, have no reason to believe that his motives are anything other than pure. That's the reason I like Paul so much. More, for example, than other people who just here to create spam. I believe his explanation that this is an email from a, even if it sounds stupid. Don't give him shit.

eZe

affiliate programs have to get rebills they pay to much for a join not to get rebills. I have always liked the idea of a loyalty discount to keep surfers.

Theo The Theologian

Creative use of the size tag. Classic.

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Paul Markham

Not all surfers are stupid.

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edgeprod

Very true. Some can even go Mission Impossible meets Chinese Hacker and bust into sites without working join links!

http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/692656-cheap-porn-sites.html

See what cultivating quality surfers can do?

L-Pink

Not all webmasters are either.

Paul Markham

Rochard you don't make any sense at all. Sorry but it's true.

To my limited knowledge Google will pick up any content, exclusive or non exclusive.

If non exclusive content is saturated, within a general niche, why are "Exclusive" shooters shooting for peanuts. The prices paid for exclusive are so low ten sales will top what some sites will pay. Ten sales will never saturate a set in a niche with over 100 sites. In niches with 1,000 sites it's impossible.

Micro niche, themed and top end have to shoot it themselves because we cannot shoot it and make money at it. They are exclusive because the content is not available non exclusive.

For those that question the authenticity of the email, fine. Do you think I would post an email that went against what I thought?

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baddog

But obviously you think we are.

Maybe you can give us a hint as to why a surfer would decide to just sit down and write that to you.

I have been running programs a lot longer than you, and have never gotten anything much deeper than: is there another way I can join, my password doesn't work, or something alomng those lines.

How is it that you seem to attract the opinionated (and apparently bored) members that take the time to discuss your business model with you?

baddog

Not in a million years

edgeprod

While I agree that your knowledge is extremely limited, I think his point parted your hair as it flew over your head.

Sausage

Yeah right ... that email was from a member Sure we all believe you.

Oh and also you get sales without working join links, don't have traffic leaks, and convert 1:1. How does a guy who knows next to nothing do all these amazing things ?

Next thing you will tell us you can turn water into wine.

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edgeprod

Carrie

I'm amazed that you honestly expect us to believe this email is from a surfer.

- Fact: surfers don't know terms like "signups" and "rebills".
- Fact: surfers don't know percentages of what sufers don't rebill
- Fact: surfers don't know that program owners go around lieing about their ratios.

He does seem to have you pegged pretty good though, Paul.

Carrie

I feel that maybe you should actually make some revshare sales from decent sites and have experience seeing what kind of rebills you get before sharing your feelings with GFY.

And what do you consider to be "substantial" rebills?

Krusty

Hold on a second???? Your site is all YOUR content shot by YOU in the SAME niche, SAME scenes etc.

So you're saying your sites are SHIT (.. oh and keyword there is 'boring' - you said it, not me)?

spooky181

Same here, seems like a very odd email from a member. Just doesnt make sense that a member would send an email like that.

Carrie

Paul, please... just stop. You are shooting yourself in the foot, and then sticking your foot in your mouth.
You do realize that you just described your own main flagship paysite, and at the same time called its content boring and cloned, don't you?

This is GFY. Things aren't all nicey-nice over here. The next time you try to convince someone to buy your content, or sign up to be your affiliate, you're going to have at least 10 people linking back to this post where you called your own stuff boring and looking cloned. Consider what you say before you say it!

baddog

I think he got spoiled by all the eastern European noobs at NP that thought he was the end all, be all of the industry.

He is going to hate it here.

RawAlex

If retaining a customer wasn't the business plan, then all a paysite would be would be a fixed list of links to content, one time extrance fee, and your membership dies in 12 months or whatever (wouldn't matter, because it never updates).

The initial sale pays for the sales efforts... the recurring members are what pay for your ongoing content.

Wagerboy

There is not a post that this guy dont get slammed in. I do enjoy the drama, but to give up on rebills? Anyone with a tad of common sense knows that is like found money to the bottom line.

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pocketkangaroo

I push a whole lot of sponsors and have done both revshare and PPS. Rebill rates have continued to decline over the past couple years. There are sponsors who do have decent rebill rates though, but as markets get oversaturated with sites, they have become fewer and fewer. If you do have a list of sponsors that do rebill very well and don't mind sharing, I'd be all ears.

As for what I consider substantial rebills, I'd say sites that will make it worth more than PPS and be worth the wait. This is very difficult to do when many sponsors offer trials (which pays full on PPS).

darnit

Not to split hairs but there are the month to month rebills and the conversions of trial to paid - not to mention x-sells on the join.

The later i think is most important with today affiliate structure. Affiliates demand high payouts and very few affiliates recur well - some are exceptions (twistys, etc) but most offer high payouts, lame members areas and a ton of upsells to keep their payouts high.

Keep that prime content for your FHG's and tours and pay affiliates well seems to be the name of the game.

Oh and to throw my hat in the ring that letter is as fake as a hookers pleasure.

pocketkangaroo

You're also talking from a position where you have very good sites that have been around forever and have tons of exclusive content. I also believe you guys still update your sites regularly.

But take a look at 2/3rds of the top banner spots on GFY. Look through those sponsors and sites. Sign up for a few and you'll find a universal theme. They are either filled with old, garbage, non-exclusive content or 10-15 exclusive videos. Very few of these sites ever update. You'd be amazed at how bad some of these sites are that are so-called "big sponsors".

Now I just can't fathom that these sites are made to rebill. Of course you'll have that small percent that will, and another small percent that will forget to cancel their membership. But are you telling me that these sites that have 15 videos in their members area were built to make the surfer as happy as can be? Or are these sites built to grab a surfer and try to milk him for what you can with upsells, etc.

I'm not saying that there aren't sponsors out there that don't live by their rebills, I'm saying that there are a lot of sponsors out there that don't seem to care about it.

StuBradley

that is classic!!!

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L-Pink

Mr. Subliminal

Shoehorn!

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Paul Markham

Edgeprod on the other hand is here for a social life.

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Paul Markham

From the school of

If I can't do it neither can you.

Or do you think you are better than everyone else?

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baddog

That's the problem Paul, always has been.

It is possible to promote yourself and/or your products without incessant spam or continual self ownage.

You never have figured that out.

baddog

No, just you. But most everyone is.

Paul Markham

Next thing you will tell us is my content converts and retains.

"Good Hard Fuck
People love hardcore sex, that's why Good Hard Fuck appeals to a wide audience.
With hundreds of videos and thousands of images - this site keeps members busy (and
rebilling) for a long time."

But then that means LB was lying on Netpond. So does my cheap Bargain Basement content work on Good Hard Fuck tour or not? Either way LB is lying to someone.

Don't bother changing the pages I screen captured them. Would love to see you ly your way out of this.

Maybe this surfer is talking about. Cheap little sites thrown together with cheap content, then sponsors tricking newbie webmasters to send traffic to their site that don't work for the affiliate or the member.

Are all your sites on this level or just one?

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baddog

You should be careful about your throwing around the names of other boards or you could find yourself getting banned . . . and then we would all be bored.

Paul Markham

My stuff must be good, even the Bargain Basement content that is cheap as hell and not saturated at all.

Because look what my haters say about it and how well it works on their tours.



Thanks for the glowing endorsement.

Sorry for mentioning another board.

I'm off to do some work.

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baddog

Whoa, if you are going to use an affiliate page sales pitch as a "testimonial" you have serious issues.

Have you ever seen a sales pitch on any program that had something along the lines of: "This site doesn't convert very well. The content blows, but it was cheap."

L-Pink

Thanks for the laugh, time for bed.

Paul Markham

So you think lying to affiliates is all right or wrong?

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