xenigo

Just got this. Seems a little, uh... odd. What is the point of this?

Agent 488

time for them to skin this joint.

Zombaio_Tomas

This is simply added to the agreement because there are big networks that are using us in the 3rd or 4th place of the cascade. This means that we got basically just orders that several other processors has rejected (often for good reasons). This means that the transactions we see on that specific account is 95% or more declines, which we have costs for. With this clause we have a legal way to terminate those merchants - or at least give them a chanse to put us higher up in the cascade.

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Zombaio_Tomas

If you want to try us out, use us as first processor in a cascade for one of your small sites. This way you get a fair result of what we can do for you. Placing us back in the cascade will give any processor alot of declines and bad business.

We are all here to make money, we will help you SAVE and MAKE money, but not back in the cascade!

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rowan

I can understand why a processor wouldn't want to be the one consistently taking care of an attempted transaction after the second or third decline, but I think forcing clients to put you first is going to backfire.

Notice effective immediately is also a bit much.

DVTimes

boo hoo

why not simply try to impress people/webmasters.

ie, your newish, and most people will always opt for old reliable sysatems first.

thants life

as such you need to note that and do your best to prove your better than others. that will take time.

now from reading this post it feels like your saying you will consider droping some clients. for me and i bet others who may consider using you i would not as last thing i want to do is get lots of sales then have you say your dropping me, and thus i have to then mess about removing you and all the grief that would be.

so now i would not use you nore would i promote any site that has you as the primary system (ie via an affiliate set up).

thank you for the 'heads up'.

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BobG

So is it 9% if you are not first in my cascade or 9% and then termination if I don't move you to first in the cascade?

Zombaio_Tomas

9% if you choose to have Zombaio back in the cascade. But if you put us first and restore your rate just to put us back again, we may terminate the account. I'm not saying we will, but this way we have the right.

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DVTimes

Ooooh I think not.

Who wants to use a service that later may decide to remove you.

No thank you.

If I use a service then I do not expect them to tell me how to use them. We are trhe customer.

Bulling people to use you more is not the way to get people to use you more. You have to be good and keep your customers happy.

In time this would lead to your customers using you more as well as telling other webmasters that you do a great job.

Lets face it, ccbill nevewr ever ever need to advertise or post on this otr many other forums as they have a god reputation and we always say how great they are.

So far I am not impresed by your firm. I do not care if you charge less. I am more than happy to pay more if I know that the firm will look after me. Ccbill do look after me.

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BobG

Got it. Thanks!

Zombaio_Tomas

We have alot of new clients and are very happy with our flow of new webmasters.

Again, if your plan is to put Zombaio back in the cascade because you are afraid of putting us first; this will only misslead you since we will just be able to judge and process 'bad' transactions. Use us for you smallest site instead, this way you get a fair result.

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ruff

More TOS crap. After the fact no less. Time to move on.

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CryptoFeeds

DVTimes

So your saying to be safe better remove you from the system now and get it all soted out rather than waking up one day to find you have droped them.

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BobG

Good points here I think. No program owner wants the threat of loosing all their rebills looming.

Zombaio_Tomas

Well, then I think we will not be a very good match since we have a 13 pages agreement and a 5 pages Usage Policy in addition to this.

Good luck with your business anyway...

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Zombaio_Tomas

No, but if you have us back in the cascade be prapared in a increase of the rate to 9% (still better than many other processors).

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Barefootsies

Some of the replies in these threads make me laugh.

You want the 4.9%, but you think they are being unfair asking to be first?


They are a business just like you, or like you should be running things, and they have to do cost control as well. Being dead last on your China traffic just to incur costs for your cheap ass is insane.

If you do not want to use them because you are a cheap ass, that's fine. But wanting them to be 3rd, or 4th, on your cascade for your declines and running up costs, but still demanding a 4.9% processing rate is ridiculous.

Even at 9%, they are lower than most other processors.

Some of the way people, supposedly in this industry, answer these threads is very telling of how they run their business, or hobby. Absolutely no business sense on either side of the issue, yet expecting endless free fucking handouts.

Unbelievable.

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Link1 | Link2 | Link3

Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

DVTimes

i am sure you are happy with your flow.

to be honest i am rather shocked at your statment.

Most firsms would say, we have 100% satisfied customers, but no, your only thought is to the amount of webmasters you get.

not a thought for what your customers think of you.

and i have read your posts. a customer of yours is saying he is not happy, so rather than say ' let me look into what we can do for you' you say look mate use us first or we may pull you'. Great customer service.

I am adding a few more billing systems to my ccbill cascading. i told the last one what we planed, they said thats fine. anything we can do to help. great stuff.

i know that once set up i will not even think about them again.

but with your system your now asking webmasters to mess about. goog frief as if people have not enogh problems these days.

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Zombaio_Tomas

No, wait no, we may terminate the account if you abuse it by 'saying' that we are first just to get the low rate of 4.9% repeatedly.

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DVTimes

you get what you pay for.

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DBS.US

Make me think of,,,,

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Barefootsies

Solution:

Don't use them.

Go back to CCB, Epoch, or where ever else you think treats you more fairly at 12-14.9% processing rates and stop you fucking crying cheap ass.

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Link1 | Link2 | Link3

Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

chronig

I was sitting here eating and laughing at that whiney idiot's replies.... I was about to post but didn't bother... glad someone else shares my thoughts though

I would hate to have to rely on these whiney fuckwads to promote my sites

DVTimes

May !!!

If I come up to you in the steet and say "give me your cash or I may shoot you", is that any differencxe to "give me your cash or I WILL shoot you"?

No, both are a threat.

How shocking.

What poor customer service.

I know if I got a phone call from the police to say you MAY go to prison, I would be most upset.

I feel sorry for your customer above he must be very upset now. Now he has to deside does he move your position or loose re-bills from customers.

Can I ask did you tell him this position when he applied, or did you think lets give it a few months till he has members re-billing then we can contact him and bully him into using us more?

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DVTimes

Well I am going to go to cool off.

I am fuming that a firm these days treats its customers so badly.

And what reply do I get from them?

Basicly I get, if you do not like it sod off.

Mabe I should treat my customers this way. I will have to set up an email so when they join it says, we have your cash, if your not happy we do not care, we are only in business to make money, in fact we may pop around to your house and punch you right on the hooter just for the heck of it. And I have taken your membership money and useed it to wipe my bottom with it as I think your such a jerk, I would not want to put your cash in the bank. But thank you for joining my sites.

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Zombaio_Tomas

This is easy... we have huge networks that are banging us with bad transactions that we have to pay transaction fees for to our acquirers (even if declined). If we shall be able to keep low rates for the customers that actually wants to use us, we need to take care of this matter. And this is the way we do it.

If we would charge you 10-15% this would not be a issue.

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DVTimes

ps

my post regarding I may shoot you or I will shoot you unless you give me your cash was not at all sugesting that this firm robs people I meant that I am sure if I said this myself that legally it would be considered basickly the same. May and will is not much in it.

Anyway, I am MAD now.


Arrrrgh - as I belive the kid from the snoopy comics would say.

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DVTimes

Well mabe you shoulds offer two services.

One set up for primary and another for use with cascading system. I am sure most people would be happy if this was done, and you explained that being 3rd or 4thh means your picking up the crumbs and so it costs you more.

That would be good customer service.

In fact it could be a selling point. You could say that you provide a lower rank payment system in a cascade system, but due to this it costs your more to process.

That would be far nicer than saying, you must push us up or you may risk loosing our service.

This way it gives the webmaster the option.

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Zombaio_Tomas

Is'nt that exactly what this is? We offer 4.9% to 'first cascade' merchants and 9% to the 'back cascade' merchants...

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DVTimes

at the end of the day, my grief is not that you need to charge a bit more, thats fair, its logical that your going to get a lot of rubish sales as your the 3rd or4th try.

My point is that its wrong to say do this or will will pull you.

I personaly think that if you hadjust simply sent out a nice email saying, due to the position in your cascade system, this has increased costs due to the amount of problems. Due to this we will need to increase the costs to you to 9% (or whatever).

But probably a bit better worded.

I think that would have been a nice way to have solved it.

That would have given you good service.

If you hhad done that I am sure the chap would not be moaning that you threatened to stop the service with him.

In fact you could be selling yourself right now saying ccbill has a great cascading system. We have found that we can process sales others do not so add us to your cascade system and see how we go.

Build up the customer relations.

In time affiliates may see you being on the cascade system as a bonus and wish to promote sites using you for the reason they belive that there sales will increase due to fewer declines.

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Zombaio_Tomas

Well allanuk... read the first post again. This is a notice that went out to all Zombaio merchants with information that we have added clause 21 to the TOS, nothing else...

We have not terminated anyone, neither increased any fees... this is a TOS update....

I can assure you that we will communicate nicely (not over GFY) with the merchants that may be affected of the increased rate.

Now allanuk, have a nice evening....

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DVTimes

the pont being hat you stated that you 'may' remove him from your system.

if i had a site and say had 40 customers re-billing through you i would be a bit anoyed at such a threat,

affiliates woulds also read that and think if i promote a site using your system and send them 600 sales, what if you remove the system, that afilliate could also loose the re-bills.

at the end of the day you are the new chaps. being new you need to push customer care, and quality. do not rely on being cheap as being your selling pount. its customer care. i do not go to the cheapest, i go to the one who i belive will provide the service i need.

too many web sites these days are playing silly games, such as camcontacts. mabe its due to the fact that most of these sites are (i suspect) run by fat 30 year old virginss who have nver worked with the public so have no idea about customer service.

somtimes i just wish some of these chaps did 3 or 4 years working just serving in a shop, just so they would gain such experience.

i know some of you joke sayng that loosers work in burger bars, but to be honest there are spotty 16 year olds working in mc donalds who would wipe the floor in customer service with some of those who run web sites.

anyway thats my rant over for today.

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harvey

I seriously think you're nitpicking. I don't know of any firm that won't cut you if you abuse their terms. Any at all. I think it's really fair that if they offer a rate nobody else can give they want to have better options. And I can see a lot of idiots that will tell them "hey, you're first in my cascade" to get the fee and then send them to the last place. It happens every single minute, and I'm convinced this wouldn't be an exception. It's like those idiots that want for a link trade and once you link to them they delete the recip. There's not even a gain for them, just the satisfaction of causing harm to other people. So yes, it's pretty smart to add an abuse clause, which, by the way, exists in each and every existing program.

Look, I'm not related to them and never used them, so I can't vouch for Zombaio at all. But I think this is a very clear and fair situation: do you want special fees? act this way. Do you want regular fees? act as you want. Do you want to fuck us? we'll cut you like anybody else would do. Gee, it's not that difficult to understand

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DVTimes

i do not think you realy understand that this sounds realy nasty.

No one gives a hoot about terms of servise. All people want to know is if they join your system will they have any problems and will you provide customer care.

Why does evveryone need to act as if they a dozen lawers on stand by?

I wish people who ran web sites stoped being so tight arsed. So completly anal.

Look forget about all that crappy terms of service, its not impresed anyone that you got some legal firm to type it up.

Just chill.

All you needed to do is email your customers in a nice fun way, just say where tranactions are poor, we will be increasing the costs slightly, and igf you wish to have a breakdown of your tranactions we will provide it. Sure its a pain but we are still cheap and we will do our best to make you more cash. And just to be cool with you all, we have entered everyone in a xmass drw, first prise an ipod. we love your service, and we aim to please.

but no, we all need to be all so anal. look at me i run a company and i am a director, so important am i.

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B O B

They are not the only processor to do this. Be sure to read the fine print on every processor you use.

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jtrade

hahah drama...nice pic lol

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PXN

Gee, I don't get why allanuk is so fed up? If you don't like them or their TOS then don't use it. No need for this kind of drama.

ArsewithClass

Agreed!

This company seems fair asking not to be placed last & to be used properly. "Scratch my back & ill scratch yours".

Too many people want everything their way these days. Higher prices dont always mean better service. My server is a fantastic company with good prices.

Sometimes. Sometimes you pay less & get a decent deal, other times you just get ripped off!

BillyHoe

Ok I'm a bit confused maybe you can give a real answer instead of talking in circles. IF! I use you as my secondary or third Processor, and lets say you convert 1 out of every 3 declines. You'll charge me 9% for this, AND will choose to cancel me at your discretion?
So basically I'm rolling the dice using you. Since in a month you "could" choose to update your TOS again and say sorry anyone using us 2,3,or 4 on the list we're canceling.

How about a no BS answer and just say YES or NO. So I know whether it's worth the risk.

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PornMD

Using punishment vs. reinforcement is no way to keep happy customers. Plus "effective immediately" - it was that big of an emergency for you to institute this policy that you couldn't give an advance notice to your customers?

I can understand your costs, but you need to understand the customers' point of view, even the customers that have you back of the line. The way you instituted this policy basically says you'd rather not have their business at all, in which case you may get your wish.

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ArsewithClass

Once a contract is signed, TOS cannot be changed can it?

I suppose the company are hoping, as is all business to be 1st on the processing.

nekrom

I use Zombaio and it sounds a pretty fair rule to me.

They are saying in very clear to read English. If you don't want to use them as primary and receive the generous processing rate of 4.9% then you will be on the 9% processing plan.

If you contact Zombaio and say "I'm using you as primary" but then turn around, bitch slap them and stick them back into your cascade, they reserve the right to terminate your account.

It's pretty strait forward to understand. If you don't like their rules, don't use them as a biller. Go and use ccbill, epoch or get your own MA.

-N

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Zombaio_Tomas

Hi Billy,
I don't actually agree that I am talking in circles, I'm very straight here. If we are not first in the cascade, we have the legal right to enforce a 9% rate on your account, simple as that. If you choose to abuse this by repeatedly say that we are no 1 in the cascade to get your 4.9% back, and we are not, we have (after repeatedly abuse from you) right to terminate your agreement.

You are not rolling any dice, it's 100% up to you!

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BillyHoe

ya at the end of the contracts there's usually a clause that says they reserve the right to change the terms with notice or ad an amendment.
It's been awhile since I read their 13 page contract but I think it's in there. I have no ill will against the company since hey everyone is entitled to run their business, I'm just concerned about getting cut off for not understanding what they're saying.

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x-rate

He was really clear... en passant je suis de montreal aussi et je peut te traduire sa première réponse mot à mot si tu comprend pas

I'm currently building a adult network site and I rather pay 4.9% than a higher rate and NO HOLDBACK than a higher rate because some of their others clients send them crappy transactions and they need to share the extras fees of thoses transaction to all their clients.

Let say you are in the loan business are you giving best interest rate to one with best credit bureau or worst one? Well in 3rd party processing business I agree it could be same with the quality of the transaction... if you only send shitty transactions that are approved only at 10% it's normal to pay a higher discount rate than the guy that have an approval rate of 66+%... If you can't understand it stay in the adult industry and never go work in finance

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cjhmdm

Damn some of you bitch and whine too much...

We're very happy with Zombaio, this update doesn't affect us.. back to what matters... making money!

goldfish

Sounds fair to me, you play scumbag and lie to them(repeatedly) to get 4.9% and you get bounced. Hmm, sounds more than reasonable. So does 9% if you don't want to put them first. Beat 14.9% anyday.

Speaking of which, Tomas, I'd like to speak with you about our processing needs, ICQ possible?

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Zombaio_Tomas

Just hit me up... 423-211-703

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Shoplifter

Sounds like reality kicking in. I don't see how it is possible to take pre-declined cards at such a low rate. And because they are the new guys I imagine everyone has them at the bottom of the stack. IMHO having the two tier rates is not a bad idea.

BillyHoe

good luck with your adult business.

oh and fyi stick to talking french your English skills leave little to be desired for.

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