Harmon

50 wannabes

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marketsmart

i did not know that dog meat was so low in calories...





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marketsmart

if you want to lose weight fast, i suggest getting a lap band..

i needed to lose about 10 pounds and went and got a lap band and the weight just melted off..




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JamesGw

I need to eat a lot of calories to avoid overtraining when I'm doing 7-9 workouts 6 days a week. I've been able to maintain that sort of intensity for about 2 months without overtraining, but I'd like to up the progressive overload to gain some more strength in that timeframe, but I'm afraid of burning myself out. That's why I was considering h-drol, since it's good for strength / lean muscle, but I decided to try the appetite enhancer first.

I'm not big on supplements, but sometimes you need them to take yourself to the next level.

For the people that want to lose weight, it's pretty easy to eat below maintenance. If I'm trying to drop a few, I don't even worry about counting calories. I just make sure I'm always a little bit hungry. Your metabolism is pretty dynamic and your body's feedback is the best way to tell where you are. Don't ignore it - listen to it.

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Choopa Phil

sounds like hdrol is right up your alley, u can even stack the 2 for a more synergistic effect

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lazycash

I used to think it was as simple as calories in vs calories out. I've seen females with almost non existent levels of their 3 major hormones produce huge calorie deficits, and actually gain weight. As soon as they got their hormones back in the normal range, its amazing how fast the metabolism comes back.

My first inclination after reading about his wife is that she's eating way too little and her body is holding onto what fat she has. He said she's only eating one major meal a day, I highly doubt she's over 1400 calories. If she's really working out that much and eating that little over an extended period of time with no weight loss, then I'd recommend a full panel by an endocrinologist/internist who might be able to better tell her what is going on.

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ladida

Lol. Was just curious, cause if you look like that you look like you know ur workout I can't really take people serious that can't bring their theory to reality.
I thought i wrote it. I don't know exact calory, because she's not really counting that part. She's more into workout. It's 1 normal meal a day for lunch/dinner, and 4 smaller meals that consist of fruit, vegetables or yoghurt with some grains. So the 1 normal meal would be like bowl of pasta with tomato sauce + some veggies, or some meat and potatos + salad for example. Size normal for her size.
She was doing some form of HIIT without much success (some sprints and high intensity workout), but likes the current workout more then that.
Yes, that's whats puzzling me. I'd never say she's eating enough, but her weight is steady, so something has to be keeping her up, since she's living like this for like 1 year already (she was working out before also, but with this current program ~1year).
What are you aiming at? I got friends that work out way less and eat more and look "leaner". Similar hight/weight. I figure she just needs to fix her diet, i feel she's eating we little and should eat more but better set up.

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Choopa Phil

ladida, id bet to say shes eating wayyy wayyy too little especially for the amount of work she is doing. im 5'7 182 lbs and 8% bodyfat, the pic in my avi i was only 165 and about 10% bf.

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TheSquealer

Show me these people who have managed to violate the laws of thermodynamics and we can go after the Nobel Prize together.

Otherwise, a calorie is a unit of energy. Your body burns energy. Gasoline is energy for your car engine. If your car requires 10 gallons a week to drive to work and you put only 7 gallons in the tank, you don't end up with extra gas in the tank at the end of the week. That's just not possible.

ladida

Ok, so any suggestions? :P

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Choopa Phil

eat more? should be 10-12x per 10 lbs of body weight, if she weighs 122, have her consume 1200 cals a day, if she stays the same, add a couple more calories in the mix. Like i said fruit really hold no caloric value, i can eat 20 oranges a day and nothing would happen except id be in an insulin spike all day. Also eating a different times can have different effects, especially if your wife is eating fruit late at night, it can cause an insulin spike which will further lead to weight gain. Its all about messing around with timing and calories. For every gram of carbs you take in you are really taking in 3x that amount with the water that comes with it. for example if i have 200 grams of carbs, my scale will reflect 600 grams of overall gain by the next day due to the water retention

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lazycash

Re read my post, thought I made it clear what I was aiming at. She could have a hormone deficiency that is severely impacting her metabolism. There's plenty of great info/ideas in this thread and I would certainly try those first, I was merely presenting an alternative thought based on hundreds of women I've seen hit the wall like your wife and couldn't figure out why the weight wouldn't come off. Out of curiosity, how old is she and has she had any children?

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Choopa Phil

Hormone replacement therapy can work wonders look at suzanne somers

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lazycash

Look, I agree with just about everything you've said, its what I've thought for years. However, I've seen enough anomalies, particularly with females that made me realize that in some cases its much more complicated than what appears on the surface. Testosterone gives women their mental clarity and mood stabilization, libido and sexual function, muscle tone and mass and ability to metabolize sugars into energy; giving them the ability to maintain a healthy weight. A testosterone deficient woman will usually have an inability to lose weight despite working out and dieting, irritability and lack of sex drive even when in a healthy loving relationship.

I'm 100% confident I could give you a female severely deficient in testosterone and you could produce a calorie deficiency weekly via diet and exercise, yet she would have zero weight loss. I saw this first hand with my wife. She was running 5-7 miles daily and eating incredibly clean, week after week, but could not lose any of her pregnancy weight after child birth. After months of frustration with no weight loss, as I knew she was producing a calorie deficiency, I took her to see a specialist. Despite being in her early 30's, she had almost non existent hormone levels for the 3 main female hormones. After some hormone therapy, she maintained the same exercise and diet as before and the weight just started coming off.

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lazycash

I thought the Thigh Master was responsible for all of that.

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Choopa Phil

lazy same thing happens with males who need hormone replacement therapy...estrogen in males = fat gain city.

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bronco67

and titties.

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lazycash

Actually I've seen older males with belly fat who begin dieting and working out and can't lose any weight and its because their testosterone is virtually depleted.

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Choopa Phil

Usually their test is depleted their estrogen levels are usually higher than normal as well. Hormones play a crazy role in the grande scheme of things. You should get a full blood panel done every 6 months regardless of your health IMO

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tical

Stubborn fat in older men is most likely related to an impaired metabolic state (hypothyroidism and/or low cortisol).

This would also be a contributing factor (along with genetic aging) as to why sex hormones like testosterone are low.

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TheSquealer

You are confusing 2 very simple concepts.

1) you said she had a daily calorie deficit (i.e. eating less calories than she burned in a day) and GAINED weight (assuming you mean "FAT", not water - where hormones also play a significant role).

- that's just not possible

2) having a hard time losing fat - with increased physical activity and no meaningful change in diet

- different issue entirely

You might feel you've observed over time that 2+2 is not 4... but that doesn't prove that 2+2 is not 4, it just suggests there is something about the math that you do not understand.

HarryMuff

Fitness Gurus are Laymen

lazycash

I meant, "gain weight" or "no weight loss at all" after a female's long term low calorie diet and rigorous daily exercise, I wasn't referring to #2. I'm not going to derail this thread with the details of hypothyroidism and all the effects of hormone depletion, all I can say is that there's tens of thousands of documented cases occurring just like I described.

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TheSquealer

again, "No weight loss at all" is not the same as the claim of eating less calories than one burns and GAINING fat. (water.. maybe, but not fat)

how does a person increase body fat by eating less calories than they burn?

you absolutely can't explain that and you will never find a single study that explains that. of course you can claim all day long that these alleged "10's of 1000's of documented cases" exist, but you will never produce a single one because they don't in fact exist.

i think you really aren't getting that you can't burn 2000 calories a day, eat 2000 calories a day and gain body fat. its absolutely not possible. hypothyroidism, hormones levels etc (my last injections of testosterone/hgh were this morning btw) have nothing to do with a simple physics problem and the fundamental laws of thermodynamics. you body can't produce energy stores from nothing... that only comes from food. your body can't store excess energy without either the presence of excess energy (i.e. eating more calories than you burn) or without requiring less energy to function (starvation mode)

a slow metabolism or hypothyroidism doesn't cause you to magically produce body fat from thin air. I do appreciate you throwing out some big words with the side note that you aren't going to discuss them to support your claims or even demonstrate any knowledge on the subject

"rigorous exercise" is subjective concept and unique to each individual, not a universal concept that explains anything at all.

Fat loss, as i've already stated repeatedly requires diligent attention to diet and constant tweaking to exercise/diet as your weight drops. Either you are burning fat or your body is using less energy as it slows down to conserve fat stores as it goes into starvation mode. There is no magic 3rd answer that explains the production of fat stores from thin air as you are claiming is possible.

Chris

i want to hire a trainer to come live with me for two months and teach me how to cook and eat proper for a healthy weight loss.

thats the hardest part ;/

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tical

the hardest part is getting in the car to go to the gym.

once you bust your ass in the gym, you'll feel guilty for eating like shit and be more mindful of your meal choices... making it easier to tackle the "eating right" part

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ladida

My question was aimed mostly at what test to ask for . If she went to the doc and said "hi, i work out, can't lose these 2-3 lbs i try for a year and i eat this and this" he'd tell her to go to a nutritionist or some personal trainer . If you know which tests you were aiming at, thats what i was curious at.
Shes 30, had 1 child.

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tical

Thyroid (minimum tests): TSH, Total T4, Free T3

If her metabolism is slow, the rest of her hormones will also likely suffer.

See if she has any symptoms of hypotyhroidism (intolerance to cold, dry skin, cognition problems, constant fatigue, brittle hair and nails, cold hands and feet).

A test she can do at home to get an idea of her current metabolic state is to have her take her temperature 3 hours after waking up, 3 hours after that, and 3 hours after that. Get the average temperature. If it is well below 98.6F then this could be a sign of an impaired metabolic state since our body temperature is regulated by our metabolism.

Slower metabolism = lower body temperature.

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Chris

honestly that is the easy part for me
ive lost a ton of weight and i go to the gym 5 days a week for 2-3 hours at a time then exercise at home at night

im at a stand still now with my weight loss ;/

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Choopa Phil

the gym is the easy part, cooking and maintaining, not eating out/drinking/binging on crap while everyone else does in front of you is the hardest part.

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PR_Glen

So Einstein was a quack to you? How about the doctors that do the research that Phil has acquired all this info from? Do they have to be in top shape for you to listen to them, or 'take them seriously'? Research is research, it's universal.. it's ignorant to judge things by their cover like this...

Eat 2000 calories of twinkies daily for 2 months while doing your regular workouts then do the same with proper food. Let me know how the results come out for ya...


Here's a proper suggestion for the rest of you. Why not step up the activity? I don't mean hit the gym more... How long can anyone person be at the gym anyway? Go for long brisk walks a couple times a day. Before work, during lunch breaks, before or after dinner, before you go to bed. Work in the garden, build a deck, a tree fort for the kids. All this burns calories and no gym or chemicals are required. Become active and your body will follow suit.

if you have to take hormones to make yourself become what you want, maybe you need a different kind of doctor to help something else first...

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TheSquealer

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...sor/index.html

nuff said.

I've already said that diet is important. I've said many times that you have to be very diligent about your diet, tracking your food, watching what you eat etc. However, first and foremost, its a simple issue of calories in vs calories out. Everything else is secondary.

TheSquealer

One takes hormones to improve their overall health in almost every way imaginable, both physically and mentally. Maybe you need to educate yourself a little on the subject, since you clearly don't seem to understand anything about it.

Choopa Phil

its not always about cals in vs cals out...its also about timing as well. ive been on the same diet for about 3 months now, same calories...upped my morning cals, lowered my nightly...dropped some BF put on some more mass. you always have to trick your body, if youre not changing on your current diet or routine something has got to change!

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bronco67

Find my post in this thread about the green smoothies. There's almost nothing better you can put in your body, and its easy to make. I'm not saying you can live on that alone, but it's immensely helped me reach my weight loss goals -- and I'm also getting jacked as a bonus.

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TheSquealer

Again, as i've said many many times now. i'm not saying its the final answer. I'm saying that is where it all begins. Ones metabolism will speed up, slow down etc. Of course you are correct that you have to continue to trick your body as you continue to lose weight and it will get harder to lose fat as your body fat % drops and your body fights harder to resist losing fat... we're not talking about an athlete trying to get from 15% bodyfat to 8%. That's very different than an obese lady who wants wants to believe her body somehow violates the laws of physics as an excuse.

That aside, I am saying this to address the idea of "i have this lady who is trying to lose weight and just can't"... and "she eats less calories than she burns but gains fat" which is absurd and impossible... and it certainly does her no favors when failure is being blamed on the tooth fairy and unicorns, rather than simple truths of anatomy and physiology and she is left with no means to get on track and achieve her goals.

Being in the fitness industry for many years, there is nothing more disturbing than seeing people in distress, who desperately want to lose weight and that not only lack any understanding of how their body works and what they need to do,... but who are then continually having their heads filled full of horrible information and harmful messages that will set them back even further or drive them to getting surgery as a solution.

JamesChoopa

I feel healthier just reading this thread!

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Choopa Phil

i 100% agree with you, you can not change the laws of thermodynamics 1 gram of fat = 9 calories, 1 gram of protein = 4 calories, and 1 gram of carbs = 1 calories. That is something that can not be argued!

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ladida

Are you seriously this dumb? When has Einstein theorized about fitness rofl or anything related to him having to do it himself to prove it so you're bringing him in this? WTF. I'm at awe really how you can misinterpret something i said so badly and actually believe in it.
You do realize i was aiming at all the layman that read something on internet and act smart but neither understand what they read, nor can show it in practice. When a person reads something, and can show it in practice by being an example, eventho they might not have the proper education behind them about nutrition, they proved they understand it and should be listened.


@tical
Thank you.

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Choopa Phil

Making sure your hormones are in balance I.E. (insulin/blood glucose, TSH, testosterone/estrogen, etc) will be much more influential for weight loss than simple calories in vs calories out manipulation. youre partner may be burning off their fat stores, holding onto water, etc. i do agree with both arguements. Cals in vs cals out are important but not as important as making sure all your hormones are balance.

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JamesGw

I imagine you'd be able to lose muscle and gain fat while at maintenance. It'd certainly make you appear fatter, even if you haven't gained any weight at all.

Another thing to consider is that the body's metabolism is always changing. Saying "my metabolism is A" and then only eating A +- B isn't really the best way to go about things. Your metabolism changes on a daily, even hourly basis. It might be 3000/day one week and then 1500/day the next week due to inactivity, change of climate, or any other factor.

Like I said, I think it's always best to just listen to your body.

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TheSquealer

Of course, that's why any and all weight loss or exercise programs begin with a visit to a doctor where he orders $2000.00 in blood tests.

... NOT ;)

Choopa Phil

You usually should go to your doctor, ESPECIALLY if your extremely out of shape before starting any regimine, but to each his own. i like to make sure my levels are up to par before putting my body through what i do on the daily. Im not your average joe in the gym, i plan on competing this time next year. blood tests are a must, especially when youre eating 1-3 lbs of meat a day, 12 eggs, 4 protein shakes, etc. Nothing like having a piece of mind, you cant put a price on that...and i dont pay for anything so its really not an inconvenience of a big deal.

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bronco67

Are there any testosterone products that actually boost T levels? Like Ageless Male, or Animal test.

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tical

Some of the 'non steroidal' products work to raise T (by increasing LH output) but this will also cause a spike in estrogen as well as SHBG.

The excess SHBG will bind to the testosterone and make it relatively useless (i.e., unable to enter and activate the cell receptor).

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bronco67

Damn, look at you droppin mad science on my ass.

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mynameisjim

I've been a gym rat for years. I stopped lifting free weights for the most part. I started doing that TRX training with no intervals between exercises. Then I do kettlebells once or twice a week. I workout every day.

I'm more ripped and stronger than I've ever been. I was "defined" lifting weights, but switching to almost all body weight exercises has given me cuts. Like those ridges and bumps all over your back instead of just big smooth lats.

But whatever works for you is best. You just need to try stuff.

For those interested in increasing HGH, there is a huge connection between lactic acid and HGH production. In fact, your HGH levels can increase as much as 10X if you can sustain lactic acid in your muscles for a long period of time. So basically, train with less weight and higher reps and don't rest (that's why I like the TRX). Always have your muscles burning. Do that for a few weeks then check the results. The fat will melt off your body.

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