Choopa Phil

I would be more than happy to email you the information for both my diet and prep coach I have nothing to hide and I'm merely trying to help you.

You are at such a high BF percentage you are not going to experience any of the real positives of any of those compounds not to mention they are expensive. You can burn fat in other ways...ala tren would have been a much better and more cost effective choice along with T4, Clen, and some IU's of growth.

Ill be competition ready...16 weeks out right now. Looking to compete in WBFF Muscle Model division at 190lbs @ 5'7. Currently 182-4 depending on how much water im holding at 8.2% bf according to the BodPod

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Choopa Phil

Whats that got to do with anything? Height is a determining factor in there as well. Obviously there will be someone bigger than you somewhere. Fact of the matter is I was 110lbs 5 years ago...now im 180....70lb lean muscle gain in 5 years is impressive no matter how you slice it. If youre on track and happy that is all that matters.

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TheSquealer

"trying to help" is not done by being hostile and condescending, insulting and reacting on many untrue assumptions, the first of which seems to be "this guy is a fucking idiot".

I am not going to pretend to be have a masters in biochem. I am a smart guy and have a sound understanding of college anatomy and physiology, experience and a lot of knowledgeable friends in this area. I fully understand how complex all the reactions are between stacking multiple things and the far reaching effects and unintended effects they can have. I am doing what i am doing for a reason. I have tren. I will not play with t3/t4 anymore. Not a fan of clen. I have EQ. Not a fan of growth over var. I am simply following the advice of someone who puts people on stage to win contests. As far as "expensive" its not about money... and on that note, growth isn't exactly free. In fact, none of it is. I am on what i am on for a reason. There is no point in arguing the merits of different stacks when beyond the ways they compliment each other, there is also how the individual responds and personal preference.

And i have nothing against you. I am just a little taken aback at all the assumptions and intense reaction to anything. i am not telling people what to do. I am not telling people what to take. I am not telling people to do anything at all. I just posted sample meal plan when i realize now that i've never seen before. The protein he always insists on in Bipro which can only be ordered online and i'm not a huge fan of hippy science.

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Rochard

Elli

I found joining the subreddits of the activities you're trying out is super helpful. /r/running and /r/swimming are full of some very serious people who freely give very helpful advice to newbies.

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Choopa Phil

If it came off that way I do apologize. I just find it hard that a credible dr/coach would have anyone on such a low amount of whole food vs supplements. If that is the case so be it...your body not mine. If it works for you...which it should considering the low calorie diet and gear, then thats all that matters.

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upsmed

I am just going to start doing more for my body and i like this topic, thanks for motivation)

OneHungLo

With 500mg of test a week you must feel damn fucking good. I know every case is different but is that a typical amount for TRT? Sounds like a full blown cycle.

TheSquealer

It's all good.

It was kinda hard typing on my phone earlier here is a better response and explanation.

Context is everything. I posted that page (which i've actually never even looked at - now that i look at it) just as an example and my main intent was to more say "diet is important, here's what i did". Not start world war 3.

I think that in the interest of context, you should understand mine is not a "low calorie diet". Perhaps for you, it would be a low calorie diet. Further, it would be pretty pointless to be on a "low calorie diet" and be doing a cycle of anything. I am not you. My bmr is 2000-ish, I am doing no cardio and I am trying to choke down 2600 calories a day. If you were 110 lbs a few years ago, that means you are either 9 yrs old, a dwarf or you have a very jacked up metabolism. I'll assume the latter ;). It may be VERY low calorie for you. I would assume you are a hard gainer and have to eat quite a bit more than me to see any kind of mass and strength gains. Its not low calorie for me though. In fact, forgetting about assessments, body fat and lean muscle mass - i go by how I feel, energy levels, my lifts and how i am recovering. The undeniable truth always comes out the moment you get under that weight.

With regard to 3 protein shakes instead of your 3, you should understand that while it may be easy for you to eat and eat and eat, its not for everyone. No one is saying "this is the exact perfect way you should do things". I simply posted an example of what i do. For me, it gets much harder to eat, the cleaner I eat (as i am sure you know). I have no appetite. I crave nothing and i can barely get down 2000 or so calories. It's a struggle. You might not have experienced that but its very hard. The choice is not so simple as "eat 4 more chicken breasts" when i can't eat what i am right now. The choice is "make sure you get enough protein... or not". I have not ever attempted to argue, nor has anyone else, that one shouldn't be getting their cals from whole foods. Thats a no brainer. However, again, training, goals, cycles, individuality and context matters. You are kind of acting like a band of idiots got together and just pulled everything out of thin air. That's hardly the case. In fact, i was using 200mg of EQ a week just to keep my appetite up, which if you've ever done a cycle with EQ works great... but after some discussion, we decided to drop it.

I also didn't go to someone because I needed someone to tell me to eat 2500 cals a day with a 40/40/20 breakdown. Thats pretty basic knowledge. I initially took my GF to him because she needed to hear that she wasn't eating enough food as the primary reason she wasn't losing weight from someone else, not me. I wanted someone to do her body fat and VO2 max and show her how many calories a day she exactly should be eating. While there, i began talking about injuries, working around them, nutrition etc and in the conversation came out the fact that he works closely with a company that prepares meals for medical patients with specific dietary requirements. My primary interest was to have him do the meal plans and I was paying the other company to prepare all my food for me. It cost 250.00 a week. I did it because first and foremost, where I usually fail is with diet. This made it all easy and a no brainer and i didn't have to spend so much time planning, shopping and preparing food which feels at times to be a full time job when you are eating clean. I did that for about 6 weeks and stopped because my GF wanted to cook instead so together, we do it now. I have huge lists of meal plans, i keep the things i like, i keep the total daily calories and breakdowns the same and just do it myself with my GF.

I go back once a month to check body fat/lean muscle mass and i often have a lot of questions. I also go back with my GF when she goes. I also need someone to order my blood work. Visits are $90.00 a month including all my meal plans, assessments and it keeps me on track. It's money i find under my car seat. It's not like i spend 5k a month to get "no shit" advice. I am very happy with my gains right now and so far, all is going perfectly according to plan. I could have easily done this without help... I've done it before. Like everyone else, i make excuses, i get lazy, i start skipping meals etc and ultimately fall apart and get off track. This is something I am doing with my GF together. We both need to make permanent dietary changes and both be on board. Further, I am always happy to have the opinions and help of others and in spite of all my experience and education, i still never inject or take anything without a lot of advice and blood work. I wasn't saying "permanently" as in "for the rest of my life" for test. I will keep on that path until my blood work indicates otherwise. I do however have a few friends that are on what I consider reasonably high doses of test and anavar for around 3-4 years now and they all also get regular blood work done. Besides a doctor telling them to knock it off because their test levels are 1500-ish Anavar is super mild and it doesn't seem to be affecting my liver. I take 10mg of tamoxifen every other day just in case but the masteron also has a slight estrogen suppression effect well. Generally speaking, as long as your libido is fine (as an indicator), you'll be fine but i also get my blood work done to make sure. The cyp/winni/avavar/masteron in those amounts is still a very mild cycle. Saying that winni and var are not for cutting is absolutely wrong. I've also never once heard anyone say "oh, you want to cut? - use Tren, one of the top 3 most powerful anabolics there is". It does have the effect of giving you a harder look as you pointed out. But it is in fact a very powerful anabolic steroid and its nicknamed "6 weeks to slaughter" for a final bulk for cattle before slaughter, for a reason. Anavar for men IS for cutting. Though i understand some people claim decent results on anavar only cycles. However, it is still a very mild drug by any measure and its primary use is for cutting. Clen is a waste in my opinion/experience and no more effective than ECA stacks and that assumes you are not stimulant sensitive and don't get jittery and feel high all the time - even then you have to cycle antihistamines to kick your beta2 receptors back in. Personally, i don't see any reason to mess with T3/T4 and your thyroid when you can use something almost completely harmless like anavar. I can't recall anyone i know every recommending t4 to me in the last 10 years. Your thyroid is easy to screw up and screw up permanently. I think Growth is better suited for supplementation for anti-aging related benefits and even in small doses, i am aware that you can eat a little bit shittier. I just don't really care for it. I was using growth when it was costing me 1500 a month and only a couple companies made it. I tried doing cycles a couple times with serostem/test/deca many years back and i retained so much water that i literally made a "squish squish" noise if i took a step or turned my head too fast.

When i am ready to change gears and make a serious run at mass gains once i get my bf down quite a bit more, i'll cycle off everything most likely for a while and then likely replace winni/masteron with tren. Before I make any decisions in that arena, i always get as much advice as possible from people who are qualified to give such advice, regardless of what i feel i know. I just don't have that much confidence in myself when it comes to making what, to me really a very serious medical decision with potentially serious consequences. Though i read everything i can and have a college level education on chemistry, biochem and A&P (forgot most of it), i still prefer to hear it from other people as experience tends to mean a great deal more than understanding the chemistry. Further, everyones understanding and the types, quality and uses of drugs continues to change. 20 years ago, people would be using dbol and anadrol until their liver shut down. then it was test/deca etc. Today... tren/test/anavar and there is a much better understanding of minimal amounts needed rather than the "more is better" mentality of years past.

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Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens.

Rochard

TheSquealer

I think that's a sort of subjective thing. I feel very good. But you never really know how bad you feel until you suddenly feel amazing. That is an eye opener. Once you've done that... its hard to wake up everyday and know how you could feel... but don't. My GF is definitely feeling it haha.

And yeah, its quite a bit and i am very well aware of that. I am not recommending it to anyone. I have been using it for years. There is a lot of individuality in terms of response and levels of physical activity/training/diet etc matter. You definitely need to get regular blood work done which can also be tricky. Normal supplemental doses would typically be 100mg/wk. I upped mine to 200mg. Then i started talking to some friends of mine who are competitive body builders who had been on 500+ for years as well as 50-100mg a day of anavar for a few years. If i wasn't lifting hard and heavy, i would definitely cut it back down to 200mg at mos, likely lesst. I dont know how long I will keep it at this level. I think the only real concern with elevated test levels is prostate cancer assuming you have estrogen and everything else in check and are not prone to gyno.

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Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens.

Rochard

Choopa Phil

When ya gunna get the gf on some var? 10-15mg be a nice little ride for her.

Also I was talking to a buddy of mine who suggested something along the lines of 4-500MG EQ and 100MG Cyp for cruising. Figured I would pass that along as well...something different to try, after all EQ is pretty much non-aromatizing test.

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Elli

I find it really strange that people who are eating super healthy regimes like kale smoothies and tuna salads for every other meal also find it acceptable to eat powders and supplements. Isn't that counter-intuitive? Just my thought for today...

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Choopa Phil

That is why the only time I have mine is immediately post workout. 99% of the time I will have 16oz of pasturized egg whites in place of a protein shake. 250 cals, 50 grams protein, 0 Fat, 0 carbs and a WHOLE food source. Powders do not provide micronutrients that whole foods do and thats something a lot of people miss.

Dieting is not all about cals in and cals out. Nutrition timing and food quality all play a role in the gains you make. Would you put non name regular gas in a Ferrari? I wouldnt, so why would you do the same thing to your body?

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_Richard_

bronco67

Are egg yolks really that bad for you? Aren't you throwing away half the protein of an egg when you eat just the whites?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/dain-wa...b_2968318.html

http://www.health.com/health/conditi...259746,00.html

http://www.cookinglight.com/eating-s...116/page5.html

It drives me nuts to see my wife making her egg sandwich by stripping the yolk out. I tell her she's throwing away most of the egg's nutrition.


Also, is anyone else trying the intermittent fasting thing that's so popular now(mentioned earlier)? I've never made any other adjustment in my fitness plan that has produced more muscle gain and fat loss at the same time. Finally seeing my abs after having them under a layer of fat for 10 years.

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Choopa Phil

Whole eggs are full of good and healthy fats and cholesterol needed for healthy hormone functions. Depending on how her diet is she may or may not need these additional nutrients. Instead of wasting 1/2 the eggs you buy just buy egg whites in the carton.

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bronco67

Just got my 5 month test numbers on Androgel...

914 is the number, and all other hormones are looking great. I guess I'm falling into the group that responds well to the gel. The doc wants me at 1,200.

My bench press has been rising steadily(in small increments) every week, with no signs of my usual plateaus. An added bonus has been what my wife calls "werewolf sex". Body fat is 18% -- probably from the intermittent fasting routine.

Anyone think it's possible to get in Jackman Wolverine shape in 6 months, starting from 190 pounds 18% body fat? I'm going to put this T level to good use and go for it.

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dyna mo

gotta hit it hard.

if the bar ain't bending, you're just pretendin........

bronco67

I do deadlifts, but I'm nowhere near that yet. I've been having success on the bench press using 1.25lb x2 increments. Maybe I could apply the principle to deadlift also, except use a little heavier plates. If I had to pick one exercise and abandon all othera, it would be the deadlift.

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Choopa Phil

Looks like wolverine needs to stop worrying about his deads and start hitting some squats! Im sure it would help his deadlift #'s as well...405lbs at his weight isnt all that impressive

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dyna mo

they were my favortie exercise right up until i fucking blew my shoulder out doing deads ~4 years ago. ugh. still have bursitis there as a result. i was tired, i tried one more pull and yanked my arm out of my shoulder socket. bad technique. it never really occured to me i could do damage to my shoulders doing deads without serious concentration and focus.

PR_Glen

It's only strange if you are assuming that all the powders out there are the same. Not all of them are unhealthy and replacing them with an equal amount of meat is impossible for most, unhealthy for the rest.

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Elli

My friend is onto this Primal/Paleo diet thing. Anyone else here have any experience with it?

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edgeprod

I follow some of its principles by accident. I peruse Mark's Daily Apple from time to time, and find that most of what I do is what they talk about. I diverge in some ways because I am typically in a ketogenic phase when I'm cutting or training for a fight, which means I have to be a bit more selective about my vegetables. I do love organ meats (chicken hearts nom nom), so that meshes well for me.

I combine keto with IF (intermittent fasting). If I'm trying to gain mass, I do 16 hours of not eating (train fasted, then eat right afterward), and if I'm just trying to maintain, I do every-other-day eating. I rarely try to gain muscle nowadays, as I've reached the level of muscle mass that I feel comfortable with (but I do enjoy a bit of extra fat-weight because my face looks funny when I get too low). I just try to stay feeling good, which is much more important to me than anything else. Keto and IF work wonders for that "on top of the world" feeling.

I do hit BCAA during MMA workouts to keep myself from feeling drained, but otherwise, fasted training has added an amazing amount of endurance and capacity to perform.

Interestingly, I've been juicing this past week to change things up and give my body a keto-break (and to gain a few lbs so ketosis doesn't drop me a to twig), and it's reminded me of how much less energy and focus I have when I'm not in ketosis. Go figure.

Elli

Cool info, thank you muchly! Would you recommend this keto thing for people who aren't athletes? I do stay active, but I'm not in training for anything specific.

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edgeprod

Without a doubt; keto is IDEAL for couch potatoes or people who are minimally active. It's not for everyone, but for the people it works for, it's amazing. Check out the keto subreddit here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/keto

dyna mo

prolly needs to be mentioned that keto is not fun.

and every time you go out of keto, you gotta get back in, way not fun.

edgeprod

This depends entirely on the person, also. I drop in and out without any keto flu, or anything akin to it. Keto is definitely not for everyone, but for those well-adapted to it, it's a fun ride.

geirlur

Haven't bothered to read any of the other posts in this thread but I really recommend playing Squash. You only need one other guy in order to play and the workout is great as well as a lot of fun.

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bronco67

have you done a 24 hour fast yet? I've reached a point where I don't feel hungry at the 24 hour mark. They say there's a huge HGH surge when fasting that long. The IF thing has changed my relationship with food. I've thrown away that idea that if I'm hungry it means I need to eat as soon as possible. I embrace it instead.

When I have thanksgiving dinner tomorrow, it'll cap off a 20 hour fast.

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bronco67

How's this for a workout? I planned my entire morning around going to the gym for heavy deadlifts. I got some important business finished, took my pre-workout drink, got dressed -- then bent over to get some socks and pulled a muscle in my lower left back. The irony was too much.

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Choopa Phil

Thats a far too familiar feeling! Deadlifts 600 lbs...but sneezes and then cant walk right for a week. I actually havent been able to lift for the past week because one night my buddies and I decided to arm wrestle...now both my elbows are in terrible pain. Go figure right?

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bronco67

I played softball quite a bit in the last few years. I was known on my team(and by other teams) for being an outfielder who would track a fly ball and dive to for it when it was humanly possible. I never hurt myself during a game -- when I should have had a broken collarbone. But numerous times before a game I pulled something either reaching for my cellphone, or doing some other innocuous daily bullshit. I don't get it.

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bronco67

By the way, anyone ever use Bullnox before a workout? I thought maybe I was imagining things at first, but it puts me in some kind of werewolf beast mode that makes my workouts much more intense. Placebo effect maybe?



I don't believe in any testosterone igniter crap, but there's an energy rush that is nice.

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Choopa Phil

No placebo...youve got some decent ingredients such as beta alanine, creatine, and other aminos in there for endurance/strength then some caffeine for a little extra pep in your step!

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bronco67

I ended up not going to the gym because of my injury, and instead went back to work. I was sitting at my desk fantasizing about running through sheetrock.

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MaxCandy

3km swim, 5 days a week,

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bronco67

Anyone ever go one rep too far on the flat bench press? In the 20 years I've been lifting (off and on), I've never had a gym mishap but today it finally happened. I've been breaking plateaus every 2 weeks, and steadily adding weight. I'm doing about 10 reps of 185, and I usually know when to bail before that next rep that I know will not go all the way up.

For some reason today I felt like going for a rep 11, totally ignoring my instinct that knows I shouldn't. I barely got the right side racked, and the left side got stuck under the hook on the way up. It started coming back down and I went through my options. The first was to yell out "a little help here!"

After about a second of waiting for a rescue, the weight started to come the rest of the way and I dumped the left side -- a 45 and 25. It wasn't really much louder than when those meatheads drop their 100 pound dumbbells from shoulder height. The right side was still racked and I got out from under it to see how embarrassed I should be. Lucky for me there were only 3 people on the floor. If it was peak time I probably wouldn't show my face there again.

All I know is that will never happen again. I'll always ask for a spot on big ones.

Who else had an embarrassing gym fail?

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VladS

This reminds me, time for my Syntha-6 before sleep.

Will read up the thread sometime during the week-end.

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MaxCandy

Mr Upper Body

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Choopa_Pardo

I spent over three hours shoveling yesterday. RIPPED.

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MaxCandy

Plus side of snow?

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bronco67

Anyone have any good tips for increasing bench?

I've been on a quest to do reps of 225, but I've been slowly working up to it by staying in the 185 range. One thing that's seemed to help lately is to do super heavy singles on the Hammer Strength Chest press. I know it's not the same as real benching, but I can overload the muscles safely with much more weight than I can do on the flat bench.

It's been translating to a little progress, but I'd like to do more.

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MaxCandy

I have been fucking lazy as far as working out, hoping getting this motivational thread going will help sort that.

Well at least my fingers will greet a work out

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bronco67

I've found that when you get to around 13% bodyfat, progress become almost glacial. Getting to 10 is going to be tough.

A calorie is most definitely not just a calorie. Got to get that diet CLEAN.

Recently got my test checked and the Androgel has me at 1700. Sounds a little high to me, but my doc didn't lower my dose.

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Choopa Phil

Do a 5x5 routine. 5 set of 5 reps heavier weight. It will take progressive overload, time, and proper nutrition. What are your current stats now?

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bronco67

I've been stuck on 205 as my working set for a few weeks. I usually put up about 8 reps when I'm at my strongest. That would translate into a 225 bench for about 3 or 4 reps, but I want to wait until I can do a good sized set before moving up to 2 plates.

But I've recently discovered that I'm very strong on dumbbell incline(35%) benching. I do it after my flat bench, and can do multiple sets of 85's x 6 reps with pushups in between sets.

I struggle with the barbell, but become a beast when I reach the dumbbells. Could it be that my BB work is my warmup for the dumbbells?

One thing that could be holding me back is that I'm not eating for heavy lifting(except maybe a little extra on lift days). I've been trying to lose weight while adding muscle, and it is working for the most part. As I've become trimmer, my weight has hovered in the same spot so that has to be muscle gain...and I'm starting to look a little "Jackman" -- at least in shape and size.

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Choopa Phil

Im the same way when it comes to barbell vs DB. with Dumbells you end up using more of your delts vs barbell where it keeps the pressure evenly distributed across your chest. Make sure your form is on point too, everyone's biomechanics are different. I find that if i dont bring my chest up to my neck while benching i do not activate all my chest muscle fibers.

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bronco67

I arch my back with chest out, if that's what you mean. One thing that's really helped my bench (and saved my shoulders) is making sure my elbows aren't flared. Focusing on leg and hip drive helped some too.

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Choopa Phil

It's a combination of chest out and up for me. I dont really dig the whole leg/hip drive thing for bench, only on the last couple reps when youre really struggling. Other than that im 100% flat on the bench when im repping

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bronco67

So if you're flat, I'm trying to picture what "bring my chest up to my neck" looks like.

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