12clicks

you should talk to Mike at candidclicks.
smart honest guy that can set you up

__________________

mjrools23

dude can u post some of your galleries so i can see your expert work?

baddog

Thank you for your response, however, my question was not so much what you thought about the prizes they have available, but more along the lines of do you feel it is an effective way of name branding your product or service towards adult webmasters, like making others aware of your new affiliate program.

Which brings up a second question, how important do you feel name branding is in this industry, especially when your product or service is geared to the adult webmaster?

Lots of great info here too BTW

You think it will be Lakers/Celtics in the finals?

Theo

Lakers all the way!

FreeOnes

SleazyDream why am I getting a virus reported by McAfee (VBS/RunScript.gen2) when I visit your site thru:
http://web.archive.org/web/200106100...eazydream.com/

Did you have a virus installed by that time ???

__________________

The new FreeOnes!

TheFLY

The first time I heard it used was in the 80's -- I was in 8th grade so that was around 1989 -- most of the "Elite" actitivity revolved around WAREZ and there were only a few "Elite" guys that were into Hacking/Phreaking and there were even fewer guys into credit cards or radio scanners and other "anarchy" stuff (and nobody used 3's or 7's then for "E" and "T" -- but high-ascii was definitely cool) -- most BBS's were public access back then but you still had to fill out all kinds of personal information (for callback verification in some cases to prove identity) -- but the "Elite" BBS's were very tight -- mostly run by young kids (this was south Florida) -- you had to really know someone on the inside first to become "Elite" enough to gain access to one of these BBS's where you could get to Warez and hang w/ the "krad" people hehe...

There were some guys that became elite doing VGA Loaders or ANSI art (promo for sites or crack groups) -- the real crackers where probably elite by default -- there was a lot of competition between crack groups -- to see who could crack shit first -- these were like elite gangs of kids basically -- a lot of times they would release shit before it even hit the shelves -- you could become elite also (probably the easiest way) being a distributer of warez (I forget the name of these guys) -- but all they had to do basically was spend a lot of money on long distance calls downloading all the newest warez from the main distribution sites -- and upload the shit to their local BBS's -- remember this was PRE internet so there was no central network and we are talking about only 9600 modems now as the max speed ;)

Maybe there was pre-Warez "elite" activity but I really doubt it -- I started out when 2400 modems were considered really fast and even back then there were some "cool" guys doing multi-node Galicticom boards -- but I don't think they did much other than some lame handscanner porn printed hehe... Those were PRE flatbed days haha...

FierceHost

Remember Windows 3.1 ;) I put it on my 1.1ghz laptop. It runs like a charm.

__________________
250$ 1000GB / Mo - 2000mb space - 10 domains - .26 per gig overage
<font color="#00FF00">ICQ 132871574</font>

TeraBabes

I'm glad this thread got bumped or I might have missed it (I was out of touch for the weekend). This is without a doubt the most useful thing I have read in my two months or so of following GFY. So for that, thanks 12clicks.

I get the impression that you typically come off as a hard-ass and this is out of the ordinary for you. Maybe you should consider making this a long term change? Nice guys don't always have to finish last.

Anyway, it's cool to see an old-timer offering to actually help the newbies, instead of the usual handful of sarcastic comments, followed by a pissing match, followed by all-out nastiness. Don't get me wrong, that stuff can be fun to read, but this is a lot more useful.

Can't we all just get along?

Do me a favor (12clicks) and spam me with a few of your sites and/or referral IDs for other programs you like. I'd be happy to try to make you a few bucks (not that you need it) as a thank you for actually providing useful information on this board.

Geez... I feel like I should ask a question now to get my money's worth. Hmmmmm... Ok, here's one for you (maybe I should start a new thread with to get others input too)...

All other things being equal (meaning time/money invested, skills, creativity, etc), order the following groups by income from highest to lowest:

1. Paysite Owners
2. TGP Owners
3. Gallery Makers
4. Free/AVS Site Webmasters

Of course I realize that this depends on the individual (not all TGP Owners drive Lamborghinis like the Hun) and the effort put forth. Maybe this question would be easier to answer if I said to order it by the "mean income" for the average person in each of those groups.

Oh, and feel free to add other groups that I'm not thinking of right now.

Thanks again for this thread. You've got a new fan...
TB

__________________
This place is too big.

Kimmykim

1. Paysite Owners
2. TGP Owners
3. Gallery Makers
4. Free/AVS Site Webmasters

Hmmm, I don't know that ranking them by that category really would do it Tera -- it's more about what sort of marketing you do with the traffic you get. And the longevity of the person who's making the money as well.

Starting out today, I don't think any of them would make all that much for a while, especially not if you compare it to a few years ago, when you could pick and choose what sort of traffic you wanted and only work that traffic.

Search engine traffic used to be gold, and those that had it in quantity sometimes cleared more than some of the bigger program operators did after expenses. Now, not so...

If you took the average person with any modicum of skill, who was getting decent traffic -- AND all the traffic was equal amounts -- AND each was doing the best in their place to convert a sale -- I'd say 1,4,2,3. Or perhaps 4,1,2,3.

On the other hand if you wanted to take simply the biggest of their class, comparing the Hun (biggest tgp) to someone like ARS (biggest paysite program), and the builders to either of them, you can guess that it would be 1 (by a long shot, even after expenses I'd bet) ,2 and then the others trying to pick up some change...

12clicks

I've never made a TGP gallery in my life. I always thought there was a better waqy to spend my time.
(no offence to tgp makers, its just not for me)

I'll answer the rest of these questions tuesday morning.

__________________

TeraBabes

Interesting analysis, KimmyKim. I guess I should have included my ranking, which is actually the same as your initial one - 1,4,2,3. That's for the average person, with as much else "constant" as possible.

There are other ways we could rank the same groups, of course. For example, I'm guessing "Ease of Getting Started" would be 3,2,4,1 (exact opposite order). "Risk of miserable failure" would probably match the first list, as risk and reward are usually similar.

BTW, The reason I thought of this is because I have a friend who wants to get into the business... And no, this is not one of those times when the "friend" is the person talking about the friend. Anyway, I'm not sure where to direct him to start his efforts.

I'm thinking it might be good experience for him to follow the "Ease of Getting Started" order to learn the ropes and figure out how things work. It's a logical route (that I didn't follow, for the record). Think about it:

Step 1. Make some galleries. Learn about html/graphics design, purchasing content, affiliate programs, getting traffic, etc.

Step 2. Build a TGP. Step 1 should have helped you figure out what you like in a TGP. You can get it started with traffic from your galleries and you can push traffic back to them as well.

Step 3. Build a large AVS site. By now, you've hopefully got some decent skills. Time to see what you can do and start raking in the bucks. The traffic probably won't convert well, but you can get things rolling using the traffic from your TGP.

Step 4. Now that you've mastered the first 3 steps, build a pay site. Recruit affiliates. Make the big bucks.

Step 5. Enjoy your success. Hire employees to do the actual work and spend your days fucking around on GFY.

If all goes well, I'm guessing "Quit your day job" would be sometime after step 2.

Ok, I'm done rambling. I'd be interested in reading others thoughts on this though.

TB

__________________
This place is too big.

Ludedude

Ron!

Nice thread...lots of good Q's. Those newer members of our community would do well to print this out and read it. Often.

__________________

eggorist

How big is your penis?

Kimmykim

Actually Tera, if your friend really does want to get into the business, I'd suggest that the first thing they do is find someone, perhaps yourself, who can explain how traffic actually works.

A few years ago when I started, I learned to do free sites, then avs sites, never made a gallery page until about 8 months after I started, since I never saw how it would be worth my time.

I didn't think about the web within the web until maybe 2-3 months after I started, and by then I'd built alot of sites and didn't even know where I had stashed them all to correct my mistakes.

More importantly than the way you start out, is the level of organization and thought you put into the entire setup. Keeping track of what pages are where, who the sponsors are on those pages, where the traffic is coming from, and linking them to your other pages by multiple methods is a key to success in the world of the reseller.

The days when you could toss a few Yahoo sites up, do some avs work, and get some good listings on Tommys and GG to pull in a five figure income a month on part time work are gone, and the smartest webmasters will realize that, the new ones will realize that when people who've been around awhile talk like it's that easy, that it's just not any more.

So tell your friend to study the system first Tera, and then once he's got the reseller thing down pat, and got some traffic of his own to play with, then would be the time to start looking at a paysite, NOT before. This I've said for years.

TeraBabes

Good advice KK

I followed pretty much the same road as you - starting with free sites and AVS sites and not bothering with gallery pages. To be honest with you, I still don't see how building galleries is worth the time (for me anyway). When I have, I've gotten a ton of traffic but it converts for shit... not even worth the bandwidth.

But (obviously) some people out there are making good money building galleries. More power to 'em...

TB

__________________
This place is too big.

Squishy

My newbie question is can I have the DVD from this thread? I really need a hooker and a couple of crack rocks.

Kimmykim

Didn't I just see you saying you hadn't gotten the one you're owed? Now I know why you want them so bad :P

You don't happen to be going by dipshit moron retard in another thread do you?

;-}}}

mule

Hm, guess it's not Tuesday morning in your neck of the woods yet. Over here, it already is, and it's a beautiful day

12clicks, this is a really awesome thread. I've copied/pasted most of it, and I hope it continues in the same vein.

__________________
Converting like a mofo

chodadog

Must be comin' about tuesday morning by now.

*bump*

By the way, my question. How much longer until i become rich?

__________________
26 + 6 = 1

12clicks

hmmm, like I said, I'm not really familiar with them but they are being noticed so its gotta be good for advertising on some level.

I think its very important. Look at all the different names that readily identify us. You may not associate ALL of our names with us, but accross the net, SOME people associate us with each.

Would I change the name "12clickss" to something else just because I was board with it?
um, no.


yes. even though I hate the lakers.

__________________

12clicks

well, the sponsors I like besides myself are easy.
AP
maxcash
python
cashquest
siccash
for my stuff, if you don't use mojosearch.com and textlinks.com I think you're leaving money on the table. Some people just aren't ready to join a site when they're on your page. Having other options besides to join a paysite, gives you a chance to make extra money.

questioning the completeness of my answers?


1. Paysite Owners
2. TGP Owners
3&4 could go either way depending on how good the person is.
oh no! thank YOU for the opportunity.

__________________

12clicks

I think that this is the EXACT advice I'd give to someone starting out in this business today.

__________________

12clicks

yeah, answering 150 questions off the cuff is making ME feel like I night know something about this business.

__________________

12clicks

big enough for my wife, not big enough for me.

__________________

12clicks

I intentinally started this thread late in the week so I wouldn't win the DVD player.

__________________

12clicks

you've gotten off to a good start.
of course, you have to define rich.

__________________

Claws

Thanks for getting me out of the "lurker" mode 12clicks

Would you say that it's too late in the game to start yet another
TGP? (with an initial traffic of around 8K/day from free sites, SEs and 404s)

TheSpaceBulldog

Hell yeah it is too late.

Ah shit! Hold in while I switch back to my other screen name.

__________________

12clicks

too late? no.
there are plenty of people who would trade with you. once you get past the blowhards telling you you're too small to talk to, you'll find plenty of people to work with.

ask gary if he can do anything for you. he's a good guy

__________________

baddog

thank you for your time and honest responses, and if interested in working on associating those not so familiar names with you, hit me up, and we will work out a deal for you

chodadog

That's surprisingly motivating.

__________________
26 + 6 = 1

DTK

Couple questions

You rate paysite ownership as #1. How would premium AVS site ownership compare?

Why did the collapse of the 'mainstream' advertising market cause you to reconsider opening a '4free' type network?

Thanks!

__________________
Arguing whether the Democratic or Republican party is better is like debating which steaming pile of shit is slightly less stinky.

SNOW

Ron thanks for all the great advice you and this post fucking ROCK..

DamnFineOnline

12clicks:

Was cellularphones a good investment?

GFED

I just wanted to say this is the most informative post I've read since visiting this board, and I HAD to bump it up. I read the entire thread and was disappointed when it ended. Also I wanted to post some comments on the ELiTE msg coz that brings back good old memories when BBSs had warboards and iBM vs Commodore flame wars.

I was 12 yo when I opened up my BBS. The major rule of the Elite BBS's was "NO LOCALS" so you either had to CC, PBX or pay LD bills. And yeah, I always voice verified my members too.

I believe they were just called "traders" at first then after the USR came out with the 9600 baud modems they were called "couriers". Hell, I was USHQ for Angels/Defjam/Scoopex for about 8 years and all it took was having 2 nodes and a 120MB hard drive!

McHenry BBS is still around, I'm sure you've heard of them. And I forget who used to release the Playboy scans, but they were pretty high quality (well, I used an Amiga after all )

Ahh the good ole days...


Anyways, bump for the newbians!

__________________
https://www.flow.page/savethechildren

12clicks

ya know, I was just thinking of this thread yesterday.
wondering if there was any interest in round 2.
Maybe monday I'll do it again for a while. (if there is interest)

__________________

StupidNewbie

I am interested, your thread helped a lot the first time just look how long it got.

TheFLY

do it again
do it again

new thread tho pleeeze

421Fill

Is round 2 gonna include how to hijack cell phone sales?

Juge

I must agree. There is a lot of useful information here. Good job!

It's too bad more threads on here aren't like this...

quiet

i agree. very good thread - maybe too good.

__________________
we'll miss you our friend. RIP

Dawgy

GFY needs a thread like this now & then to get us all back on track

__________________
the revolution is coming.

12clicks

no, but it will include how to slap down smalltime punks who are easily confused.

__________________

Juge

What ever happened to the incentive GFY gave to the people who made the most useful post every week? (you know, sort of like the weekly longest thread wins a DVD player.) Is this still going or what? I think we've all forgotten about it, if it still exists... I thought it was a good idea...

ReFresh

Can I go ahead and just ask for forgivness in advance? I know I'm bound to fuck up if I ask enough, but jeez... I'll try not to.

When the time comes that I need some forgiveness, I'd lake to have a pre-approved "get outta' some shit free" card.

Uh, did I just fuck up? Honest! I'm sorry! Don't hit me!

__________________
"If it floats, flies or fucks... rent it"
<a href="http://www.goodpussygonebad.com" target="_blank">
<img border="0" src="http://www.goodpussygonebad.com/images/site/GPGBLogo_sm.jpg" width="73" height="74">

ReFresh

I'm interested. Seriously, it's a great thread.

__________________
"If it floats, flies or fucks... rent it"
<a href="http://www.goodpussygonebad.com" target="_blank">
<img border="0" src="http://www.goodpussygonebad.com/images/site/GPGBLogo_sm.jpg" width="73" height="74">

Theo

yeah, that was a nice thread and i have a new question

12clicks,which erotic stories paysite would you recommend at the moment? I know you are the most proper one to answer

12clicks

pornstories.com

nothing better. actually, nothing even close.

__________________

montel

How does AllClicks break even (it seems to me they need to make $30 CPM) with clickheretofind? Does this program (allclciks) have a future?

12clicks

why do you assume allclicks HAS TO break even.
It has a certain intrinsic value over and above anything it makes. Of course, it does do better than breakeven.

Of course it has a future.

__________________